Sovereignty??

Discussion in 'General Global Topics' started by cbi0090, May 11, 2008.

  1. cbi0090
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    cbi0090 Member

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    I have a real problem with the idea of national sovereignty when it's obvious that it's really just group of thugs holding a population hostage (normally at gun point). What makes a sovereign nation? Cases in point: Burma or Sudan. What should international law recognize as a legitimate country or government? Should it recognize one that pillages the wealth of the nation to cover it's own sorry paranoid asses like North Korea or Burma, or one that systematically attempts genocide on a large portion of its population like Sudan?
     
  2. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Who decides if its just a bunch of thugs? The US? The UN? The problem with the US doing it is that then its basically just another form of imperialism. The problem with the UN doing it is that the UN is predicated on national sovreignity.

    There isn't anyone to decide. What your really after is an international, independent government to overthrow national governments if they get out of line. I'm down with that, but I don't think very many other people are unfortunately. We are moving closer to that model with the creation of the ICC, however it was greatly weakened by the US both in its altering the treaty, and in its refusal to sign even the weaker altered treaty that eventually came into force.
     
  3. Swamp Fox
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    Swamp Fox Active Member

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    The UN can't even decide how to define the word terrorist, so what good are they?
     
  4. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Actually that would be states that can't agree to define the word. They have, however, specified some individual acts which do fall under the definition even though they can't agree on a definition for the word.
     
  5. Swamp Fox
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    Swamp Fox Active Member

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    So we should look to them to help the world because of?????????????

    The UN has been in existence since 1945 and I can't think of ONE thing that it has done right. Time to dissolve that world body, throw the bums out of NY and put the money to all of those domestic programs the Dems seem to want to have.
     
  6. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Because they are all you've got.

    It got food and supplies into Burma and the US didn't. Thats one very recent example of what they've been able to do.

    Throw them out of NY? I wasn't aware you advocated the state nationalizing private property. When did this shift come about?
     
  7. Swamp Fox
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    Swamp Fox Active Member

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    If I have reached the point where the UN is all I've got, it's a sad, sad world. The day I rely on the UN to fix my problems is the day after I've been fitted with a toe tag.

    Actually, US planes have landed in Burma and are offloading as we speak. More stuff for the junta to commandeer and keep for themselves.

    My error, I should have said throw them out of the US and quit making our extremely large contribution until the other nations step up and start to provide. Actually, scratch that, just get rid of them completely.
     
  8. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Nobody gives a shit if you feel the need to rely on them, fact is America does rely on them.

    2 days later. How many more died? And actually the Junta hasn't been keeping the goods they took, they've been giving it out, they are just pretending its from them. That the UN was able to get in a few days early saved lives.

    Umm, again, throwing them out of the US is the state nationalizing private property. You do know that the UN building in New York isn't owned, nor was it provided, by the US, State, or local government, right?

    I find it hilarious that the US benefits from the UN so much and yet all so many Americans want to leave. Luckily US leaders will never be stupid enough to withdraw from the UN so your little fantasies will forever go unfulfilled.
     
  9. Swamp Fox
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    Swamp Fox Active Member

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    We rely on them? Last time I checked, the UN runs on American money. Also, I have yet to see the UN do anything that has helped America in any way. The UN is a tick on the ass of the world and it is time to fumigate.

    Not our fault the junta didn't let us land earlier.


    So they can take the fucking building with them, as long as they go.


    I find it hilarious that you think the UN is worth a damn. Maybe our illustrious leaders should actually start listening to the people they're supposed to represent and get the hell out of the UN. The only fantasies going on around here are the ones in your head with the beautiful UN leading the way.
     
  10. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Provided legitimacy for the US invading other sovreign nations.

    Who said it was the US's fault? Thats an irrelevant and a strawman.

    They own the land, genius.

    Pretty much anyone with even a basic understanding of the international stage thinks the UN is worthwhile. That you don't speaks volumes.
     

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