Something We All Know For Sure......It's In The Book

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Cammmpbell, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. Cammmpbell
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    Cammmpbell Senior Member

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    Joseph Smith, a convicted con man, started a religion(the newest major religion on earth) which ensured that he and Brigham Young got some good pussy. Each of them had 40-50 wives....of their choosing.

    Can You Say Mormon?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Can you say Bullcrap? Because that's what your post is.
     
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    I feel a little guilty finding amusement in the madness of it all
     
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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMD02zU9SE]Mitt Romney speaking about Mormon faith - YouTube[/ame]
     
  5. Cammmpbell
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    Cammmpbell Senior Member

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    The Real Joseph Smith

    Mormons consider that Joseph Smith was chosen by God to usher in the restored gospel. Non-Mormons view him as having founded a church. Big difference. Mormons can justify following Joseph Smith despite his numerous obvious major character flaws by saying that they don't expect a prophet to be perfect and their church embodies the true gospel despite the human foibles of members and prophets alike. Non-Mormons ask how they justify following a leader who displayed such questionable integrity in his actions and words. How much does the personal character of your leader/s matter in any organization?

    As much as the Mormon Church now seeks to deflect focus from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and various aspects of church history, the ethics and lives of their prophets formed and directed the church, influencing it still, perhaps more subtly but still extensively within the Mormon culture and faith. It is interesting to examine the different positions on JS; the favourable and reverential view that the Mormon Church upholds vs that held by non-Mormon analysts who see a fuller picture of Joseph Smith's character and behaviour.

    From an official LDS Church web site Smith is described as follows:

    *Latter-day Prophet
    *Seeker of Truth
    *Prophet of God
    *Leader of Christ's Church
    *Devoted Husband and Father
    *Martyr of the Restored Gospel

    "He did God's work until the day his life was taken by a mob, and we honor him for his faith, humility, and devotion. We are grateful for the Church he helped establish, the scriptures he translated, the revelations he received and the things he taught that help us understand the ways of God."

    Joseph Smith | Mormon.org

    -----

    Sounds good for the church. But is it a full and accurate picture of Joseph Smith? I think the character of him is crucial to whether he is a good role model to follow as prophet to an entire religious movement. If not, how does one reconcile continued involvement in the Mormon Church? Equal to the character question is a reasonable expectation of consistency and lack of hypocrisy both in the leaders and the teachings.

    Also, are the stands taken by the Mormon Church with social issues such as homosexuality and marriage equality in line with original church teachings? If so, were Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other "prophets" faithful or hypocritical regarding them? Although change is perhaps inevitable, how much change is reasonable before the original product is no longer recognizable or the new product unfaithful at heart to the original?

    As seen on the site referenced above, Smith is lauded as prophet, seeker of truth, devoted husband and faithful, humble, devoted martyr. Non-Mormons see a different Smith, as below.


    From (exmo) Deconstructor�s site, Mormon prophets on homosexuality:

    LDS Mormon Monogamy Homosexuality

    LDS Mormon Gays


    Regarding Joseph Smith in connection with abortion and prostitution, Decon excerpts:

    "In Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven" it mentions that Joseph Smith visited houses of prostitution.

    "From the book:

    "I have told you that the prophet Joseph used to frequent houses of ill-fame. Mrs. White, a very pretty and attractive woman, once confessed to me that she made a business of it to be hospitable to the captains of the Mississippi steamboats. She told me that Joseph had made her acquaintance very soon after his arrival in Nauvoo, and that he had visited her dozens of times."

    "My husband (Apostle Orson Pratt) could not be induced to believe such things of his prophet. Seeing his obstinate incredulity, Mrs. White proposed to Mr. Pratt and myself to put us in a position where we could observe what was going on between herself and Joseph the prophet. We, however, declined this proposition."

    "Next door to my house was a house of bad reputation. One single woman lived there, not very attractive. She used to be visited by people from Carthage whenever they came to Nauvoo. Joseph used to come on horseback, ride up to the house and tie his horse to a tree, many of which stood before the house. Then he would enter the house of the woman from the back. I have seen him do this repeatedly."

    "Joseph Smith, the son of the prophet, and president of the re-organized Mormon church, paid me a visit, and I had a long talk with him. I saw that he was not inclined to believe the truth about his father, so I said to him: 'You pretend to have revelations from the Lord. Why don't you ask the Lord to tell you what kind of a man your father really was?' He answered: 'If my father had so many connections with women, where is the progeny?' I said to him: 'Your father had mostly intercourse with married women, and as to single ones, Dr. Bennett was always on hand, when anything happened."

    -----

    Deconstructor posted in June 2006:

    "Wife of Apostle Orson Pratt isn't the only one who knew about abortions in Nauvoo."

    "LDS Elder Ebenezer Robinson testified that Hyrum Smith:

    "instructed me in Nov or Dec 1843 to make a selection of some young woman and he would seal her to me, and I should take her home," he recalled, "and if she should have an offspring give out word that she had a husband, an Elder, who had gone on a foreign mission." Possibly referring to a secluded birthplace, or conceivably to abortion, Robinson spoke of "a place appointed in Iowa, 12 or 18 miles from Nauvoo to send female victims to his polygamous births." - Ebenezer Robinson to Jason W. Briggs, Jan. 28, 1880, LDS archives.

    "On December 29, 1873, Ebenezer and Angeline Robinson signed an affidavit saying that Hyrum Smith had come to their house in the fall of 1843 to teach them the doctrine of polygamy.

    "Apostle Orson Pratt's wife testified...

    "One day they came both, Joseph and [Doctor] Bennett, on horseback to my house. Bennett dismounted, Joseph remained outside. Bennett wanted me to return to him a book I had borrowed from him. It was a so-called doctor-book. I had a rapidly growing little family and wanted to inform myself about certain matters in regard to babies, etc., -- this explains my borrowing that book."

    "While giving Bennett his book, I observed that he held something in the left sleeve of his coat. Bennett smiled and said: 'Oh, a little job for Joseph; one of his women is in trouble.' Saying this. he took the thing out of his left sleeve. It was a pretty long instrument of a kind I had never seen before. It seemed to be of steel and was crooked at one end."

    "I heard afterwards that the operation had been performed; that the woman was very sick, and that Joseph was very much afraid that she might die, but she recovered." - Testimony of Apostle Orson Pratt's wife, Sarah Pratt from "Joseph Smith the Prophet: His Family and Friends"

    http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/18...

    "Joseph Smith's once close associate Doctor Bennett was also accused by Hyrum Smith of practicing abortions.

    "Hyrum testified that Dr. Bennett was propositioning women in a similar fashion to Joseph Smith.

    "[Dr. Bennett] endeavored to seduce them, and accomplished his designs by saying it was right; that it was one of the mysteries of God, which was to be revealed when the people was strong enough in faith to bear such mysteries, that it was perfectly right to have illicit intercourse with females, providing no one knew it but themselves, vehemently trying them from day to day, to yield to his passions, bringing witnesses of his own clan to testify that there were such revelations and such commandments, and that they were of God; also stating that he would be responsible for their sins, if there were any, and that he would give them medicine to produce abortions, provided they should become pregnant." - Affidavit of Hyrum Smith. Official History of the Church, Vol. 5, p.71"

    -----

    More evidence (or allegations as some would opine):

    From: Mormon Portraits I, von Wymetal, Wilhelm, SLC: Tribune Printing & Pub., 1886, page 59-62.

    "Mrs. [Sarah Pratt].: "You hear often that Joseph had no polygamous offspring. The reason of this is very simple. Abortion was practiced on a large scale in Nauvoo. Dr. John C. Bennett, the evil genius of Joseph, brought this abomination into a scientific system. He showed to my husband and me the instruments with which he used to * operate for Joseph. ' There was a house in Nauvoo, 'right across the flat,' about a mile and a-half from the town, a kind of hospital. They sent the women there, when they showed signs of celestial consequences. Abortion was practiced regularly in this house."

    Mrs. H.: "Many little bodies of new-born children floated down the Mississippi..."

    -----

    Not that I think any of you will read a word of it:

    Joseph Smith: Nineteenth Century Con Man?
     

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