Some US soldiers see the truth!!

[Andrew2382]

Yes, we ahve made no progress in Iraq, you are right..we lost

 

[Andrew2382]

U.S. hands "triangle of death" to Iraqi troops - Yahoo! News

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, we ahve made no progress in Iraq, you are right..we lost

We were getting cheap oil for food under Saddam. What did we gain?

$10 billion a month stupid.

Mook Tada El Sadr will be the next President of Iraq. He is Shiite. So is Iran. They want us gone. You have no clue what Iraq will be in the future. Big fucking deal we got rid of Saddam. How much did it cost? Are we any safer?

The oil companies will continue to steal Iraq oil until the day they throw us out, and the USA will not share one bit of that revenue. But the GOP will get big donations from the oil men that benefit from the occupation.

I don't even want to get into it with an ignorant person like you who doesn't know what's really going on in the middle east or the rest of the world.

If you think Bush is doing a good job, then you are beyond stupid.

How's Pakistan going? How's Afganistan going? Iran? Russia? N. Korea?

Bush has had the worst foreign policies of any president in the history of America.

Saddam helped keep Iran in check. We just created a monster.

And the Sunni's will be the future terrorists in Iraq. There were no terrorists in Iraq when Saddam was in power. He killed them all.

You don't realize Iraq is not civilized enough to be a democracy. They hate us. Get it? And us staying for so long is one of the reasons we weren't treated like liberators. We raped their resources!

 

[Coloradomtnman]

He had no illegal order he was disobeying.... the guy is a disgrace and is in violation of his oath of duty.... he is derelict in his duties and has abandoned his post...

maybe you should try and understand what you are fucking talking about with the military... understand the sense of duty and honor.. understand the commitment one signs up for....

I'm a former Marine, and if I had been ordered to deploy to Iraq to fight for big oil I wouldn't have gone and would've objected on the grounds of the war being immoral. However, if I was defending my country and I objected to it having already enlisted, well, then you could call me a coward and lock me up. However, I don't necessarily think the war in Afghanistan is immoral since we're fighting people who attacked. The war in Iraq was immoral because Bush misconstrued the facts. We had no business attacking a sovereign country and if I had been enlisted during I would've objected on moral grounds.

People enlist to defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and Bush has been more of an enemy to the constitution than Saddam Hussein ever was. People don't enlist to defend big oil and Halliburton's interests.

Go ahead and lock him up, what compassion and understanding you Republicans show! And for the Nazis - there were legal orders to kill the Jews, because under Hitler it was illegal to help Jews. Not that it matters. If a legal order is for you to kill someone and you don't think it's right, then you have to stand up for what you believe in, right? Isn't that the US is all about?

 

[sealybobo]

U.S. hands "triangle of death" to Iraqi troops - Yahoo! News

only the capital Baghdad, four ethnically and religiously mixed northern provinces and Wasit province along the Iranian border still require day-to-day U.S. patrols of Iraqi streets.

REMEMBER CHANEY/BUSH1 WARNED US ABOUT GOING INTO BAGDAD?

THE SURGE WORKED? NOT BY ITSELF. NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE FOR THE MOST PART BEEN ETHNICALLY CLENSED. SEE ABOVE? I PULLED THAT FROM YOUR STORY. STILL WE ARE PATROLLING BAGDAD, THE IRANIAN BORDER AND ANY AREAS THAT AREN'T COMPLETELY ETHNICALLY CLENSED. AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN VIOLENCE GOES BACK UP?

DO YOU REALIZE A LOT OF ANTI AMERICAN IRAQI'S ARE KEEPING THEIR WORD ON THE TRUCE BECAUSE WE PROMISE TO LEAVE IF THEY DO? IF BUSH KEEPS DRAGGING HIS FEET ON LEAVING, BECAUSE HE WANTS MORE OIL AND MORE TREASURY MONEY, THE VIOLENCE MIGHT PICK UP AGAIN. AND THEN BUSH WILL WANT TO USE THAT AS A REASON TO STAY.

YOU WON NOTHING.

NO ONE IS SAYING CUT AND RUN. A TIMELY AND RESPONSIBLE EXIT IS ALL WE ARE ASKING. AND THAT'S ALL THE IRAQI'S ARE ASKING. THEY WANT US OUT BY 2011. OBAMA WANTS US OUT BY THEN TOO. MCCAIN WANTS TO STAY 5 YEARS LONGER. $120 BILLION A YEAR X 5 - $600 BILLION MORE IF MCCAIN WINS.

THIS PROGRESS IS TOO LITTLE TOO LATE. AND DO YOU REALLY THINK AL MALAKI WILL REMAIN PRESIDENT?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm a former Marine, and if I had been ordered to deploy to Iraq to fight for big oil I wouldn't have gone and would've objected on the grounds of the war being immoral. However, if I was defending my country and I objected to it having already enlisted, well, then you could call me a coward and lock me up. However, I don't necessarily think the war in Afghanistan is immoral since we're fighting people who attacked. The war in Iraq was immoral because Bush misconstrued the facts. We had no business attacking a sovereign country and if I had been enlisted during I would've objected on moral grounds.

People enlist to defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and Bush has been more of an enemy to the constitution than Saddam Hussein ever was. People don't enlist to defend big oil and Halliburton's interests.

Go ahead and lock him up, what compassion and understanding you Republicans show! And for the Nazis - there were legal orders to kill the Jews, because under Hitler it was illegal to help Jews. Not that it matters. If a legal order is for you to kill someone and you don't think it's right, then you have to stand up for what you believe in, right? Isn't that the US is all about?

You are a smart man. Be careful, Rush and these folks will start calling you a phony soldier. LOL.

Great post and I assume it's coming from a great man.

 

[Striker]

Make an example of him AND the next hundred or so cowards and spoiled brats who seem to think the World is just their G'damned playground.

I enlisted as soon as I turned 17 so I COULD go to 'nam. I didn't like Communism then and I like it less now. The problem is that the twats that were protesting then are the Democrat's leaders today. They were pu*sies then and they still are.

Re-instate the draft.
Bring back the firing squad.
I suggest we start in the Military, move to South L.A. and continue on to Hollywood.

Thin the f*ckin' herd.

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm a former Marine, and if I had been ordered to deploy to Iraq to fight for big oil I wouldn't have gone and would've objected on the grounds of the war being immoral. However, if I was defending my country and I objected to it having already enlisted, well, then you could call me a coward and lock me up. However, I don't necessarily think the war in Afghanistan is immoral since we're fighting people who attacked. The war in Iraq was immoral because Bush misconstrued the facts. We had no business attacking a sovereign country and if I had been enlisted during I would've objected on moral grounds.

People enlist to defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and Bush has been more of an enemy to the constitution than Saddam Hussein ever was. People don't enlist to defend big oil and Halliburton's interests.

Go ahead and lock him up, what compassion and understanding you Republicans show! And for the Nazis - there were legal orders to kill the Jews, because under Hitler it was illegal to help Jews. Not that it matters. If a legal order is for you to kill someone and you don't think it's right, then you have to stand up for what you believe in, right? Isn't that the US is all about?

Except Iraq was a justified continuation action from violations of cease-fire...

And Bush has not been an enemy to the Constitution... he has broken no laws... he would have been brought up on charges so fast, even a dizzy headed lib's head would have spun off...

If you would have deserted or gone AWOL... you would have been as dishonorable as this coward

There were Nazi soldiers that did go with the desertion option... and they assumed the risks including prosecution by their own military and government, including the possibility of death... but funny, I don't see us having orders for the extermination of innocent civilians... we have legit actions helping a new ally with their security after our military action against Saddam's regime... we have legit actions against terrorists and insurgents in both Iraq and Afghanistan

I did serve with honor willingly during the first part of the Gulf War... not that I wanted to go to war, but it was my duty as a soldier that voluntarily signed up for service to my country and in defense of my country and it's interests... while not always pleasant, I did all of my duties with honor and the commitment necessary... which is what is expected from each and every soldier

 

[Andrew2382]

We were getting cheap oil for food under Saddam. What did we gain?

$10 billion a month stupid.

Mook Tada El Sadr will be the next President of Iraq. He is Shiite. So is Iran. They want us gone. You have no clue what Iraq will be in the future. Big fucking deal we got rid of Saddam. How much did it cost? Are we any safer?

The oil companies will continue to steal Iraq oil until the day they throw us out, and the USA will not share one bit of that revenue. But the GOP will get big donations from the oil men that benefit from the occupation.

I don't even want to get into it with an ignorant person like you who doesn't know what's really going on in the middle east or the rest of the world.

If you think Bush is doing a good job, then you are beyond stupid.

How's Pakistan going? How's Afganistan going? Iran? Russia? N. Korea?

Bush has had the worst foreign policies of any president in the history of America.

Saddam helped keep Iran in check. We just created a monster.

And the Sunni's will be the future terrorists in Iraq. There were no terrorists in Iraq when Saddam was in power. He killed them all.

You don't realize Iraq is not civilized enough to be a democracy. They hate us. Get it? And us staying for so long is one of the reasons we weren't treated like liberators. We raped their resources!

lol raped their resources? OO you must mean how the first contracts for rebuilding their infrastructure and getting the oil went to china and not the big 4 oil companies.

Mainly because Schumer and Kerry got involved and killed the deal to ensure Americans didn't go in there just for oil.

I see now.

ALSO TYPING IN CAPS DOESN'T GIVE YOUR POINT ANY MORE INTELLIGENCE IT SEEMS TO BE LACKING

 

[sealybobo]

Make an example of him AND the next hundred or so cowards and spoiled brats who seem to think the World is just their G'damned playground.

I enlisted as soon as I turned 17 so I COULD go to 'nam. I didn't like Communism then and I like it less now. The problem is that the twats that were protesting then are the Democrat's leaders today. They were pu*sies then and they still are.

Re-instate the draft.
Bring back the firing squad.
I suggest we start in the Military, move to South L.A. and continue on to Hollywood.

Thin the f*ckin' herd.

I don't have to be in the military to know you are wrong.

You hated commies and I'm sure they hated us too Striker. Were they wrong to hate you? Based on your attititude, I think not. You sound evil.

Thank God America has big tough dumb mother fuckers like you we can send off to fight for us. Grunt.

And stop revising history. Liberals didn't cost you a victory in Nam, God did. Notice we win every war we are supposed to win and quagmires happen everytime we start a war for profit? And just look at the economy God handed to Bush. That's right. If Bush's ideas were good, then they would have worked. But they didn't.

It's silly to think God is on your side right or wrong. Thank God for the liberals of the 60's. If not for them, people like you would be in charge. Oh shit, people like you are in charge. How did that happen? Somehow Chaney and Rumsfeld hung around all these years and came back, with a vengence. They sucked back then and they suck now.

Sorry we ended the war in Nam. Sorry we spoiled your fun. Sounds like you never got used to being back in civilization.

Here is what Kissinger says:

TOKYO: Former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who helped engineer the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam, said Sunday the problems in Iraq are more complex than that conflict, and military victory is no longer possible.

He also said he sympathizes with the troubles facing U.S. President George W. Bush.

"A 'military victory' in the sense of total control over the whole territory, imposed on the entire population, is not possible," Kissinger told The Associated Press in Tokyo, where he received an honorary degree from Waseda University.

The faceless, ubiquitous nature of Iraq's insurgency, as well as the religious divide between Shiite and Sunni rivals, makes negotiating peace more complex, he said.

"It is a more complicated problem," Kissinger said. "The Vietnam War involved states, and you could negotiate with leaders who controlled a defined area."

But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam War who has also advised Bush on Iraq, warned that a sudden pullout of U.S. troops or loss of influence could unleash chaos.

"I am basically sympathetic to President Bush," he said. "I am partly sympathetic to it because I have seen comparable situations."

During his tenure under President Richard Nixon, first as national security adviser and then as secretary of state, Kissinger faced a similar challenge in formulating policy for a Vietnam War that was increasingly unpopular at home.

He oversaw a gradual U.S. pullout from Vietnam through a strategy also planned for Iraq, where U.S. troops are training their Iraqi counterparts to take fuller control of security. He also negotiated directly with North Vietnamese leaders on ending the conflict.

Kissinger said the best way forward is to reconcile the differences between Iraq's warring sects with help from other countries. He applauded efforts to host an international conference bringing together the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and Iraq's neighbors — including Iran, Washington's longtime rival in the region.

"That is the sort of framework out of which it is conceivable that an agreement should emerge," Kissinger said. "One needs to be prepared to negotiate with adversaries."

Kissinger said that fighting in Iraq is likely to continue for years, and that America's national interest requires an end to partisan bickering at home over war policy.

"The role of America in the world cannot be defined by our internal partisan quarrels," he said. "All the leaders, both Republican and Democratic, have to remember that it will go on for several more years and find some basis for common action."

 

[ABikerSailor]

Except Iraq was a justified continuation action from violations of cease-fire...

And Bush has not been an enemy to the Constitution... he has broken no laws... he would have been brought up on charges so fast, even a dizzy headed lib's head would have spun off...

If you would have deserted or gone AWOL... you would have been as dishonorable as this coward

There were Nazi soldiers that did go with the desertion option... and they assumed the risks including prosecution by their own military and government, including the possibility of death... but funny, I don't see us having orders for the extermination of innocent civilians... we have legit actions helping a new ally with their security after our military action against Saddam's regime... we have legit actions against terrorists and insurgents in both Iraq and Afghanistan

I did serve with honor willingly during the first part of the Gulf War... not that I wanted to go to war, but it was my duty as a soldier that voluntarily signed up for service to my country and in defense of my country and it's interests... while not always pleasant, I did all of my duties with honor and the commitment necessary... which is what is expected from each and every soldier

No, Iraq wasn't justified. It was done simply because Curious George wanted oil, and was pissed at Saddam for threatening to kill his father.

Bush ISN'T an enemy to the Constitution? Bullshit. He wipes his ass with it every chance he gets, and whenever he gets caught, he immediately pushes for an ammendment.

As far as breaking no laws? Bullshit again. The only reason that he didn't get brought up on charges is because he was protected by a Republican congress for the first 6 years, and the Dems didn't have enough time to get things rolling during the second 2, because of gridlock.

Nope......the Iraq war is one of the most failed operations that this country has ever done, and Bush Jr. is going to go down in history as the most failed president ANY country has ever had.

Why else do you think he keeps pushing for more stimulus checks? He's looking to buy us off and hope that we forget the cluster-fuck of the past 8 years.

However.......most people are smarter than that and won't be bought off so easy.

 

[Navy1960]

Surely you recognize the validity of CO status.

Young impressionable soldiers may not realize the consequences of their signing up .. and/or may not get a better picture of what is happening until after they sign up.

Say for instance a young impressionable person was moved by the events of 9/11 to join up to fight the terrorists and stop Saddam from using WMD .. then later, as did all of planet earth, find out that Saddam doesn't have WMD, and Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 .. are you suggesting that that person has no right to dissent? No right to answer to their own conscience? No right to intelligence?

Just do as you're told no matter what you're told?

An unlawful order is an unlawful order BaC if you served in the Military you know that. However, the arguement of CO status would hold a lot more meaning to me if for example a young person was "drafted" into the US Military and by no choice of their own found themsleves in a situation where due to the dictates of CO status unable to go to War. This I submit does not apply for an all volunteer force in that if one were a CO and wish to claim that based on the the grounds allowed, how is that the person did not object just a few short months prior to his AIT training? This is a very weak arguement. US Military personnel are subject to the UCMJ and not the same laws that you and I are as civilians and yes they do have limited rights. They know this though when they raise their hands and swear the oath. The US Military functions on the permise on unified chain of command and that the word individual is non starter in the Military. When a person goes outside that chain of command and becomes an individual they no longer are able to function within the Military and effect the workings of the units they are in in both morale and safety. The point being, the Military is not free ride to college, nor is it a free ride to a retirement check, you earn every single bit of it. If your not willing to earn the benefits of the Military and function within the boundries that you know prior to joining then I submit a very simple soultion. Do not Join!!

 

[Striker]

Liberals didn't cost you a victory in Nam, God
did.

 

[DiamondDave]

No, Iraq wasn't justified. It was done simply because Curious George wanted oil, and was pissed at Saddam for threatening to kill his father.

Bush ISN'T an enemy to the Constitution? Bullshit. He wipes his ass with it every chance he gets, and whenever he gets caught, he immediately pushes for an ammendment.

As far as breaking no laws? Bullshit again. The only reason that he didn't get brought up on charges is because he was protected by a Republican congress for the first 6 years, and the Dems didn't have enough time to get things rolling during the second 2, because of gridlock.

Nope......the Iraq war is one of the most failed operations that this country has ever done, and Bush Jr. is going to go down in history as the most failed president ANY country has ever had.

Why else do you think he keeps pushing for more stimulus checks? He's looking to buy us off and hope that we forget the cluster-fuck of the past 8 years.

However.......most people are smarter than that and won't be bought off so easy.

Then I guess Clinton's bombings and actions were not justified?

The fact is, that it was/is a completely justified action, whether you like it or agree with it or not.... but nice try....

Just because you don't like Bush, have BDS, or whatever, does not make him an enemy of the Constitution and does not mean his is a criminal. The fact is if he did break the law, he would have been brought up on charges faster than shit. It is not some vast Republican conspiracy....

As for stimulus checks or whatever... that is way off on a tangent from what is being discussed and adds nothing to the conversation about a dishonorable, criminal, AWOL, Conscientious Objector coward

Oh... and BTW.. your War for Oil myth has been debunked so many goddamn times, it is not even funny anymore

 

[Navy1960]

I (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God.)

What part of the bold part are people not getting? When the CIC i.e. the President of the United States or CENTCOM orders your unit to deploy to Iraq or where ever you are going what part of this oath allows you to to be selective on a set of deployment orders?

 

[CornbreadOracle]

Pardon the interuption, but....

....isn't it irrelevant if the young man in question is opposed to *this* war or if he is opposed to *all* war? The point is, when he signed up he agreed to obey orders. There is a code of ethics and guidelines that dictate for the most part, what a commanding officer may and may not ask his soldiers to do. Those same guidelines and codes of ethics provide explicit instruction on how those soldiers are allowed to disagree with their command in the few instances it's allowed. Saying, "Sorry, but I changed my mind and no longer think this is a good idea..." is not a valid response in any circumstance, right?

Dave, Navy, etc., y'all correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[sealybobo]

lol raped their resources? OO you must mean how the first contracts for rebuilding their infrastructure and getting the oil went to china and not the big 4 oil companies.

Mainly because Schumer and Kerry got involved and killed the deal to ensure Americans didn't go in there just for oil.

I see now.

ALSO TYPING IN CAPS DOESN'T GIVE YOUR POINT ANY MORE INTELLIGENCE IT SEEMS TO BE LACKING

Andrew, you posted that bullshit before. What you can not escape is the $ amount that Haloburton & Blackwater are raking in each month from this occupation.

And so fucking what China got the first contract. They are the ones funding this occupation.

Hunt Oil's deal in Iraqi Kurdistan, CEO Ray Hunt's multi-million dollar contribution to the half-billion-dollar George W. Bush Library, and the long and messy history of international economic development. Go on and give it a read. Nancy Scola: Debt and Development, Presidential-Style

On June 19, the New York Times broke the story in an article headlined "Deals with Iraq Are Set to Bring Oil Giants Back: Rare No-Bid Contracts, A Foothold for Western Companies Seeking Future Rewards." Finally, after a long five years-plus, there was proof that the occupation of Iraq really did have something or other to do with oil. Quoting unnamed Iraqi Oil Ministry bureaucrats, oil company officials, and an anonymous American diplomat, Andrew Kramer of the Times wrote: "Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP ... along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, are in talks with Iraq's Oil Ministry for no-bid contracts to service Iraq's largest fields."

The Iraqi Oil Ministry's new fave five | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist

 

[sealybobo]

No, Iraq wasn't justified. It was done simply because Curious George wanted oil, and was pissed at Saddam for threatening to kill his father.

Bush ISN'T an enemy to the Constitution? Bullshit. He wipes his ass with it every chance he gets, and whenever he gets caught, he immediately pushes for an ammendment.

As far as breaking no laws? Bullshit again. The only reason that he didn't get brought up on charges is because he was protected by a Republican congress for the first 6 years, and the Dems didn't have enough time to get things rolling during the second 2, because of gridlock.

Nope......the Iraq war is one of the most failed operations that this country has ever done, and Bush Jr. is going to go down in history as the most failed president ANY country has ever had.

Why else do you think he keeps pushing for more stimulus checks? He's looking to buy us off and hope that we forget the cluster-fuck of the past 8 years.

However.......most people are smarter than that and won't be bought off so easy.

I just talked to my Ron Paul buddy. He said, "we didn't go to iraq for oil". He said that we are invading the middle east because muslims do not believe in giving out loans and charging interest. In other words, we want the middle east to buy into our Federal Reserve System.

Screw the oil my buddy says. That's just a bonus. They want to control the middle east the same way the Federal Reserve contols us. Through our money.

And he says we wanted Hugo Chavez to fall in line too and he didn't. That's why we tried to kill him. So he socialized his oil rather than let the West take over his country.

I think our government is totally currupt and evil. At least when the GOP are in charge. Chaney/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld. Basically all the members of PNAC.

 

[Andrew2382]

I am shocked that the NYtimes broke sucha story

 

[Andrew2382]

and yes I posted that bullshit before and none of you left wing retards can justify it