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jasendorf said:THAT corner! Jeez...
jasendorf said:To quote President Bush I... there you go again...
jasendorf said:But, then again, from where I'm standing, theocracy is the desire of conservatives in the United States...
jasendorf said:1) It's John.
Fine, I'll use your given name.
2) Interesting that you and the President keep using the term "assimiliation." Just reinforces my belief that "your team" is the Borg.
We are indeed the Borg...resistance is futile!
3) I provided facts... 290,000 volunteer Iraqi soldiers and policemen... YOU then discounted them as nothing but a bunch of folk looking for a job without any basis. If you want to talk facts... talk facts. Ignoring the facts I present and then pretending that you're bringing something other than conjecture and innuendo doesn't really befit your stature.
Liar. I did not discount them though that is what you want ot believe. If you are going to try to convince me that every one of those 290,000 Iraqis joined up for altruistic motives I am going to call you a liar again. One more time...I have no doubt that some (NOT ALL) do what they do because they want some form of democracy/freedom/ etc. for Iraq. SOME do what they do for the money.
4) Want a fact? The 700 Club is still getting donations. Case closed.
Here is another fact: you are being an asshat.
CSM said:How many of them are just looking for a job?
jasendorf said:Don't tell me you didn't discount them. The quote's right there. Piss on my leg and tell me it's raining? I call BS. Your words are in black and white. And the innuendo is dripping with disdain for them. Perhaps I should have asked you to tell me how many you thought are "just looking for a job."
*sigh*jasendorf said:Don't tell me you didn't discount them. The quote's right there. Piss on my leg and tell me it's raining? I call BS. Your words are in black and white. And the innuendo is dripping with disdain for them. Perhaps I should have asked you to tell me how many you thought are "just looking for a job."
I wonder what you would say if someone said to you... "Americans aren't all that deserving of democracy... how many of their soldiers and police are just looking for a job?" You'd (rightly so) go ballistic. Why? Because it's a lame excuse for an argument against the deservedness of democracy. You say that you doubt they deserve it... I don't. I say that the forces being trained by our forces are proof of their deserving. If they're not, then why are our forces even bothering? What are we doing there if they're "just looking for a job?" I think that our mission to make them self-sufficient in their military and police force is just and meaningful.
If I'm wrong... tell me why you asked the question in the first place. Why did it have any relevance to our discussion.?
Said1 said:Dripping with disdain? You have some serious interpretation problems.
CSM said:Amazing how folks can determine emotions over the internet!
I have not mastered that little trick yet. Probably too stupid because I am a conservative. Truth is, he wanted it to be dripping with disdain so he decided to interpret it that way.
CSM said:Amazing how folks can determine emotions over the internet!
I have not mastered that little trick yet. Probably too stupid because I am a conservative. Truth is, he wanted it to be dripping with disdain so he decided to interpret it that way.
Said1 said:We're really a manical cult here, it's time we told him.
jasendorf said:Simply said, twice in 24 hours you've discounted someone's actions because they're paid money for those words or actions. Perhaps I'm seeing a trend where there isn't one. If that's the case, then that's on me. Even if I were to agree that "some" of "them" were in it "just for a job" it doesn't negate the fact that Iraqis (let's say a mere quarter of a million instead of 290,000 just to satisfy the "just looking for a job" qualifier you insist is important to the discussion) are volunteering to take up the fight for their freedom. I consider that a pretty darned good start towards a country earning its democracy.
True enough. I do believe that money is SOMETIMES (even "often") a major factor in one's decisions affecting employment and motivation for actions and positions taken. I do not believe it is the ONLY factor.
Sure there are flaws with Iraq's train-wreck of Muslim factions. But, I disagree that anyone's religion, even Muslims, or that anyone's ethinic background, even Arabs, makes them inadmissible as a candidate for democracy.
As individuals you may be correct. As a culture I think you are wrong. As a religion I think you are wrong....There is no latitude for democracy under Islam and there is no latitude for democracy under Arab culture....some examples (obviously more glaring) are "honor killings" and lack of women's rights.-----
I'm doing my best to debate with your arguments in a reasonable manner. You continue to become befuddled when I pick apart your arguments and then claim that I'm trolling... if you don't want me to address the words you're using, use words that actually mean what you want them to mean instead of asking shaded questions which are filled with innuendo. All I can do is address the arguments you present. I have no ability to address the arguments you wish you had presented.
I dont think you are. You are taking statements out of context, twisting the overall concept of the point I am making and even trying to present my my feelings about certain things when I have NOT stated my feelings on certain things.
CSM said:As individuals you may be correct. As a culture I think you are wrong. As a religion I think you are wrong....There is no latitude for democracy under Islam and there is no latitude for democracy under Arab culture....some examples (obviously more glaring) are "honor killings" and lack of women's rights.
jasendorf said:Some might say that...slavery (actually written into our founding document) could have prevented Anglo Christians from creating a democracy also...
jasendorf said:I know that tolerance of other religions isn't particularly valued in conservative circles...
musicman said:Just curious - do you consider the three-fifths compromise a white, male, arrogant assessment of the human worth of African slaves, or the opening salvo in the war AGAINST slavery in the infant nation?
OK - you're nuts. Conservatives revere the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution establishes religious tolerance the like of which governmental systems in all of history have never dreamed of - before or since.