Solutions for Universal Healthcare in the US

[pknopp]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

So you think I should only have half a baseball bat, or half a sword?
How about you wear a yellow arm band in public and if you are ever assaulted, I'll know you don't want me to use my conceal carry pistol to defend you from your attackers.

I think you need to read the entire post in context and try again. I said they had less than one weapon apiece. That is NOT a small arsenal.

Sorry but the context and wording you used was not that clear.

Because you have to read everything.

 

[Rigby5]

The most expensive country for healthcare is the US. On the world's list of Best Healthcare, the US ranked 37th. Being stubborn over who pays your medical costs is ripping you off, big style.

Best Healthcare in the World 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

Two things to consider;
1) Most medical research, new technics, and new drugs/medications are via USA efforts. So some of our "costs" are reflections of the R&D investments here.
2) Many of those "better" nations are providing such at a national deficit and debt load being passed on to the future generations.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

There are other factors, such as USA laws that patients can't be turned away from emergency room care because they don't have insurance, can't pay. Those costs then get passed onto those whom do have insurance and can pay.

That is not really true.

1) Almost all new technological advances in the US come from cheap research at land grand universities.
Private companies foot the bill for almost none of it.
It is paid for by federal grants.

2) The US has an incredibly unbalanced annual budget and is spending in unsustainable ways, but not other countries.
The socialized medicine of other countries costs less than half what US wasteful medical practices costs.

US laws that prevent patients from being turned away from the ER, is NOT subsidized by those who do have insurance.
Most people do have insurance or pay themselves, and the tiny % who do not or can not, are federally subsidized

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

The process is 100% broken

 

[Rigby5]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

The process is 100% broken

But did anyone ever try to sell you "prepaid legal service"?
It essentially is about the same problems with health insurance.
Once you prepay, you lose any control over costs or quality.
So I think the only way to fix health care is to get private insurance companies out of it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

The process is 100% broken

But did anyone ever try to sell you "prepaid legal service"?
It essentially is about the same problems with health insurance.
Once you prepay, you lose any control over costs or quality.
So I think the only way to fix health care is to get private insurance companies out of it.

Or make it work like auto insurance?

 

[Rigby5]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

The process is 100% broken

But did anyone ever try to sell you "prepaid legal service"?
It essentially is about the same problems with health insurance.
Once you prepay, you lose any control over costs or quality.
So I think the only way to fix health care is to get private insurance companies out of it.

Or make it work like auto insurance?

Not sure?
With auto insurance, you can reduce cost by getting a less expensive vehicle and going with minimum liability.
You can ditch the optional "comprehensive".
But can you do that with health insurance?
You can increase the deductible, and go with catastrophic only, but a heart valve has got to still costs hundreds of thousands.
But I pay about $500/year for auto insurance, and health insurance was more like $500/month.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

The process is 100% broken

But did anyone ever try to sell you "prepaid legal service"?
It essentially is about the same problems with health insurance.
Once you prepay, you lose any control over costs or quality.
So I think the only way to fix health care is to get private insurance companies out of it.

Or make it work like auto insurance?

Not sure?
With auto insurance, you can reduce cost by getting a less expensive vehicle and going with minimum liability.
You can ditch the optional "comprehensive".
But can you do that with health insurance?
You can increase the deductible, and go with catastrophic only, but a heart valve has got to still costs hundreds of thousands.
But I pay about $500/year for auto insurance, and health insurance was more like $500/month.

Yeah it would be more complex but maybe you go to your point with a higher deductible? At work someone with three kids pays as much as someone with 7 kids. Weird.

 

[Dadoalex]

9 things Americans need to learn from the rest of the world’s health care systems

“Universal health care is hard, but it should be possible — and eight more things I discovered from visiting other countries.”

www.vox.com

So I have historically been against Universal Healthcare. To me you can have two of the three when it comes to healthcare:

#1) Quality
#2) Cost Effectiveness
#3) Universality


In Canada, Europe, Australia...they have universality and we an argue if they have quality or cost effectiveness but I would argue the latter as the best quality remains in the US. Here of course we have quality and cost effectiveness to a point but not universality. The issue for me now is that many with poor or no insurance wait until their maladies are critical and then seek care, which is way more expensive than if they saw their doctor immediately so I am wavering on universality. The problem is the cost and the cost it takes for persons to become MDs in America. Tuition is not free, it is super expensive. So my solution would be:

#1) Universal Healthcare by 2027 - Gives the Gov't time to put the program together
#2) MDs pay no federal taxes for their first five years post medical school, and pay 10% federal for the next 15 years. This will help them pay off student loans and incentivize more people to become doctors.
#3) Invest in robotics and such to rely less heavily on humans
#4) Increase tax rates, unfortunately therein lies the beast. But we pay pretty heavily through our employers now so we would have to figure that part out but I would provide incentives for those who are healthy and don't use their UH as much, like auto companies do. Maybe a tax break? People who take care of themselves and are healthy should not have to pay the same as those who eat chips all day and are fat and unhealthy. Slippery slope, I know.
#5) Work with Big Pharma for more affordable drugs, especially critical ones for those with debilitating conditions.
#6) Allow persons to purchase additional insurance to be used if necessary. Yes, that favors the wealthy but such is life in capitalism. Tom Brady will receive better treatment than some insurance salesman named Tom Smith.
#7) Legalize all drugs and tax them heavily, use those monies to help cover the costs of UH. Would reduce the war on drugs cost as well if we privatize it.
#8) Create a scholarship fund to attract more persons to the medical profession - Nurses, doctors, etc.
#9) Allow doctors to also take private monies - like they do for LASIK.
#10) Elective surgeries like cosmetic and gender changing would not be covered and would have to come from private monies.


Those are my thoughts and again, I am not sold on this but seeing how our insurance industry is now I believe we need drastic changes. I know those on the left believe we can just magically do it but those who are moderates like myself and those on the right, what are your thoughts? Am I completely crazy to suggest this?

Thank you

PS - Moonglow, you're a troll and you suck, your opinion here is unwelcome. Get lost, loser troll.

If I may respond to each in a separate post

1. Agree.
We could do Medicare for all with employer/employee premiums initially going to medicare.
Once a funding level is set a tax level can be established.
This would be a boon to Medicare.
First, lots more money rolling in.
Lots of young people are now part of the pool. Paying in but using few services.

We should raise payments to doctors/hospitals, etc. Much of the problems driven by the corporatization of medicine would be alleviated with higher payments.

If the tax base is set correctly this should not drive deficit spending.

Healthcare is a $7T industry. Assuming the insurance companies skim 15% off the top for overhead and profit we'll have a cool Trillion bucks of cushion above the tax collections.

 

[Dadoalex]

9 things Americans need to learn from the rest of the world’s health care systems

“Universal health care is hard, but it should be possible — and eight more things I discovered from visiting other countries.”

www.vox.com

So I have historically been against Universal Healthcare. To me you can have two of the three when it comes to healthcare:

#1) Quality
#2) Cost Effectiveness
#3) Universality


In Canada, Europe, Australia...they have universality and we an argue if they have quality or cost effectiveness but I would argue the latter as the best quality remains in the US. Here of course we have quality and cost effectiveness to a point but not universality. The issue for me now is that many with poor or no insurance wait until their maladies are critical and then seek care, which is way more expensive than if they saw their doctor immediately so I am wavering on universality. The problem is the cost and the cost it takes for persons to become MDs in America. Tuition is not free, it is super expensive. So my solution would be:

#1) Universal Healthcare by 2027 - Gives the Gov't time to put the program together
#2) MDs pay no federal taxes for their first five years post medical school, and pay 10% federal for the next 15 years. This will help them pay off student loans and incentivize more people to become doctors.
#3) Invest in robotics and such to rely less heavily on humans
#4) Increase tax rates, unfortunately therein lies the beast. But we pay pretty heavily through our employers now so we would have to figure that part out but I would provide incentives for those who are healthy and don't use their UH as much, like auto companies do. Maybe a tax break? People who take care of themselves and are healthy should not have to pay the same as those who eat chips all day and are fat and unhealthy. Slippery slope, I know.
#5) Work with Big Pharma for more affordable drugs, especially critical ones for those with debilitating conditions.
#6) Allow persons to purchase additional insurance to be used if necessary. Yes, that favors the wealthy but such is life in capitalism. Tom Brady will receive better treatment than some insurance salesman named Tom Smith.
#7) Legalize all drugs and tax them heavily, use those monies to help cover the costs of UH. Would reduce the war on drugs cost as well if we privatize it.
#8) Create a scholarship fund to attract more persons to the medical profession - Nurses, doctors, etc.
#9) Allow doctors to also take private monies - like they do for LASIK.
#10) Elective surgeries like cosmetic and gender changing would not be covered and would have to come from private monies.


Those are my thoughts and again, I am not sold on this but seeing how our insurance industry is now I believe we need drastic changes. I know those on the left believe we can just magically do it but those who are moderates like myself and those on the right, what are your thoughts? Am I completely crazy to suggest this?

Thank you

PS - Moonglow, you're a troll and you suck, your opinion here is unwelcome. Get lost, loser troll.

#2
You're really not giving them much of a break.
Assuming one isn't part of a generational practice with tons of built in patients doctors, once they finish med school, internship, then specialty training really aren't earning that much money. They're basically just employees of the medical facility wherein they work.
Even at the top end your suggestion would only save them a couple of thousand in taxes.

HOW ABOUT...
Once they finish all training
Dedicate 1 year working in their specialty in an underserved location
Paid an average salary for a rookie doctor in their specialty
After one year
All student loans are forgiven.

This would help bring more doctors and help serve remote or underserved locations.

This may seem expensive up front but getting medical care to people that are underserved will save money over time.

 

[Dadoalex]

9 things Americans need to learn from the rest of the world’s health care systems

“Universal health care is hard, but it should be possible — and eight more things I discovered from visiting other countries.”

www.vox.com

So I have historically been against Universal Healthcare. To me you can have two of the three when it comes to healthcare:

#1) Quality
#2) Cost Effectiveness
#3) Universality


In Canada, Europe, Australia...they have universality and we an argue if they have quality or cost effectiveness but I would argue the latter as the best quality remains in the US. Here of course we have quality and cost effectiveness to a point but not universality. The issue for me now is that many with poor or no insurance wait until their maladies are critical and then seek care, which is way more expensive than if they saw their doctor immediately so I am wavering on universality. The problem is the cost and the cost it takes for persons to become MDs in America. Tuition is not free, it is super expensive. So my solution would be:

#1) Universal Healthcare by 2027 - Gives the Gov't time to put the program together
#2) MDs pay no federal taxes for their first five years post medical school, and pay 10% federal for the next 15 years. This will help them pay off student loans and incentivize more people to become doctors.
#3) Invest in robotics and such to rely less heavily on humans
#4) Increase tax rates, unfortunately therein lies the beast. But we pay pretty heavily through our employers now so we would have to figure that part out but I would provide incentives for those who are healthy and don't use their UH as much, like auto companies do. Maybe a tax break? People who take care of themselves and are healthy should not have to pay the same as those who eat chips all day and are fat and unhealthy. Slippery slope, I know.
#5) Work with Big Pharma for more affordable drugs, especially critical ones for those with debilitating conditions.
#6) Allow persons to purchase additional insurance to be used if necessary. Yes, that favors the wealthy but such is life in capitalism. Tom Brady will receive better treatment than some insurance salesman named Tom Smith.
#7) Legalize all drugs and tax them heavily, use those monies to help cover the costs of UH. Would reduce the war on drugs cost as well if we privatize it.
#8) Create a scholarship fund to attract more persons to the medical profession - Nurses, doctors, etc.
#9) Allow doctors to also take private monies - like they do for LASIK.
#10) Elective surgeries like cosmetic and gender changing would not be covered and would have to come from private monies.


Those are my thoughts and again, I am not sold on this but seeing how our insurance industry is now I believe we need drastic changes. I know those on the left believe we can just magically do it but those who are moderates like myself and those on the right, what are your thoughts? Am I completely crazy to suggest this?

Thank you

PS - Moonglow, you're a troll and you suck, your opinion here is unwelcome. Get lost, loser troll.

#5
Big pharma is a big part of the problem.
They abuse the patent system by buying rights to a name drug, making minor formulation changes, patenting the result and raising prices on the name brand no longer available drug by thousands of percent.

We need to reform the patent and copyright laws that permit this.
Add lifting any restrictions on buying prescriptions from other countries and the market will correct the prices.
Don't expect much traction on this. Pharma is deep in the pockets of both parties.

 

[Dadoalex]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Republicans complain that social security sucks because if you die at 66 you got ripped off. You paid in all your life but only got 1 year out of it. But then in the next breath they want to raise the retirement age?

Yes and no.
Yes because work should not be a requirement for healthcare but
No because lowering the age to 62 would introduce far more unhealthy people into an already overburdened system.
Medicare for all with appropriate tax levels and funding is the answer.

 

[Dadoalex]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Fair? Beats me. I don't want government to serve as our caretaker.

The "government" provides
Military protection
Police protection
Fire protection
Builds roads
Builds hospitals...

This is just one more thing that has gotten too big for the private markets to provide.

 

[dblack]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Fair? Beats me. I don't want government to serve as our caretaker.

The "government" provides
Military protection
Police protection
Fire protection
Builds roads
Builds hospitals...

This is just one more thing that has gotten too big for the private markets to provide.

Just another brick in the wall.

 

[Dadoalex]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Fair? Beats me. I don't want government to serve as our caretaker.

The "government" provides
Military protection
Police protection
Fire protection
Builds roads
Builds hospitals...

This is just one more thing that has gotten too big for the private markets to provide.

Just another brick in the wall.

Yes, the "wall" known as civilized society.

 

[dblack]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Fair? Beats me. I don't want government to serve as our caretaker.

The "government" provides
Military protection
Police protection
Fire protection
Builds roads
Builds hospitals...

This is just one more thing that has gotten too big for the private markets to provide.

Just another brick in the wall.

Yes, the "wall" known as civilized society.

No, the wall is known as overbearing government. You're cheering for more. I'm not.

What limits, if any, would you like to see on the government's power over people?

 

[Dadoalex]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Fair? Beats me. I don't want government to serve as our caretaker.

The "government" provides
Military protection
Police protection
Fire protection
Builds roads
Builds hospitals...

This is just one more thing that has gotten too big for the private markets to provide.

Just another brick in the wall.

Yes, the "wall" known as civilized society.

No, the wall is known as overbearing government. You're cheering for more. I'm not.

What limits, if any, would you like to see on the government's power over people?

Leave women alone. Their twats is their own.
Quit trying to regulate private behaviors. Drug use, sex, etc.
Get religion out of government

How're those for starters.

 

[dblack]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Fair? Beats me. I don't want government to serve as our caretaker.

The "government" provides
Military protection
Police protection
Fire protection
Builds roads
Builds hospitals...

This is just one more thing that has gotten too big for the private markets to provide.

Just another brick in the wall.

Yes, the "wall" known as civilized society.

No, the wall is known as overbearing government. You're cheering for more. I'm not.

What limits, if any, would you like to see on the government's power over people?

Leave women alone. Their twats is their own.
Quit trying to regulate private behaviors. Drug use, sex, etc.
Get religion out of government

How're those for starters.

Those are great start!

Regarding regulating private behaviors - health care seems about as private as you can get, don't ya think?

I was more curious about how far you'd take the government-as-provider thing. Should government take over our food supply too? Housing? Why or why not?

 

[Rigby5]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

The process is 100% broken

But did anyone ever try to sell you "prepaid legal service"?
It essentially is about the same problems with health insurance.
Once you prepay, you lose any control over costs or quality.
So I think the only way to fix health care is to get private insurance companies out of it.

Or make it work like auto insurance?

Not sure?
With auto insurance, you can reduce cost by getting a less expensive vehicle and going with minimum liability.
You can ditch the optional "comprehensive".
But can you do that with health insurance?
You can increase the deductible, and go with catastrophic only, but a heart valve has got to still costs hundreds of thousands.
But I pay about $500/year for auto insurance, and health insurance was more like $500/month.

Yeah it would be more complex but maybe you go to your point with a higher deductible? At work someone with three kids pays as much as someone with 7 kids. Weird.

You can't go by what employees pay because not only does the employer foot the majority of the bill since it is tax exempt, but employers can group bargain much better than single purchasers can. And that is the problem. The poor who are not given employer insurance end up paying far more for the same or worse coverage than the wealthy who get it through their employer.

 

[Rigby5]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

How about this. I want to retire when I'm 62 but that's going to be hard because medicare doesn't kick in till 65. How about you allow people who retire at 62 to jump on medicare then? Wouldn't that be fair?

Republicans complain that social security sucks because if you die at 66 you got ripped off. You paid in all your life but only got 1 year out of it. But then in the next breath they want to raise the retirement age?

Yes and no.
Yes because work should not be a requirement for healthcare but
No because lowering the age to 62 would introduce far more unhealthy people into an already overburdened system.
Medicare for all with appropriate tax levels and funding is the answer.

Medicare for all sounds good to me.
You have collective bargaining power for all, and can use "ability to pay" criteria to make it fair.

 

[Turtlesoup]

9 things Americans need to learn from the rest of the world’s health care systems

“Universal health care is hard, but it should be possible — and eight more things I discovered from visiting other countries.”

www.vox.com

So I have historically been against Universal Healthcare. To me you can have two of the three when it comes to healthcare:

#1) Quality
#2) Cost Effectiveness
#3) Universality


In Canada, Europe, Australia...they have universality and we an argue if they have quality or cost effectiveness but I would argue the latter as the best quality remains in the US. Here of course we have quality and cost effectiveness to a point but not universality. The issue for me now is that many with poor or no insurance wait until their maladies are critical and then seek care, which is way more expensive than if they saw their doctor immediately so I am wavering on universality. The problem is the cost and the cost it takes for persons to become MDs in America. Tuition is not free, it is super expensive. So my solution would be:

#1) Universal Healthcare by 2027 - Gives the Gov't time to put the program together
#2) MDs pay no federal taxes for their first five years post medical school, and pay 10% federal for the next 15 years. This will help them pay off student loans and incentivize more people to become doctors.
#3) Invest in robotics and such to rely less heavily on humans
#4) Increase tax rates, unfortunately therein lies the beast. But we pay pretty heavily through our employers now so we would have to figure that part out but I would provide incentives for those who are healthy and don't use their UH as much, like auto companies do. Maybe a tax break? People who take care of themselves and are healthy should not have to pay the same as those who eat chips all day and are fat and unhealthy. Slippery slope, I know.
#5) Work with Big Pharma for more affordable drugs, especially critical ones for those with debilitating conditions.
#6) Allow persons to purchase additional insurance to be used if necessary. Yes, that favors the wealthy but such is life in capitalism. Tom Brady will receive better treatment than some insurance salesman named Tom Smith.
#7) Legalize all drugs and tax them heavily, use those monies to help cover the costs of UH. Would reduce the war on drugs cost as well if we privatize it.
#8) Create a scholarship fund to attract more persons to the medical profession - Nurses, doctors, etc.
#9) Allow doctors to also take private monies - like they do for LASIK.
#10) Elective surgeries like cosmetic and gender changing would not be covered and would have to come from private monies.


Those are my thoughts and again, I am not sold on this but seeing how our insurance industry is now I believe we need drastic changes. I know those on the left believe we can just magically do it but those who are moderates like myself and those on the right, what are your thoughts? Am I completely crazy to suggest this?

Thank you

PS - Moonglow, you're a troll and you suck, your opinion here is unwelcome. Get lost, loser troll.

Health Care would be affordable to most IF medical establishments charged patients paying cash the same amount that they actually charge insurance companies for the same procedures. If a Hospital bills you $100,000 for a procedure, if you have insurance---the bill is ADJUSTED to about $10,000.