Slavery reparations?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Come and punish me, you whiny black loser.

That's not something you would really want me to do. But I am not the punisher and when the punisher exacts his penalty, there is nothing you can do to stop the pain you will feel.

That's not something you would really want me to do.

I do. Really. It would be hilarious.

But I am not the punisher and when the punisher exacts his penalty

Nobody is going to exact reparations to benefit whiny black losers.

Whiny white losers that have no decision making capacity really have nothing to say that needs to be heard.

You keep whining, I'll keep laughing.

“8 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord after the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were in Jerusalem to proclaim liberty to them: 9 that every man should let his male slave and every man his female slave, being a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, go free so that no one should keep them, a Jew his brother, in bondage. 10 Now when all the officials and all the people who had entered into the covenant heard that everyone should let his male slave and everyone his female slave go free, so that no one should keep them any more in bondage, then they obeyed and let them go. 11 But afterward they turned around and caused the male slaves and the female slaves whom they had set free to return, and brought them into subjection for male slaves and female slaves.


12 Therefore the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 13 Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, saying: 14 “At the end of seven years, each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you; and when he has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you.” But your fathers did not obey Me nor incline their ear. 15 You recently turned and did what was right in My sight by proclaiming liberty, every man to his neighbor; and you made a covenant before Me in the house that is called by My name. 16 But then you turned around and profaned My name when every one of you took back his male and female slaves, whom you had set free, at their pleasure, and you brought them into subjection to be your slaves.


17 Therefore thus says the Lord: You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming liberty, everyone to his brother and every man to his neighbor. I proclaim a liberty to you, says the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 18 I will give the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before Me, when they cut the calf in two and passed between the parts, 19 the officials of Judah and the officials of Jerusalem, the court officers, and the priests, and all the people of the land, who passed between the parts of the calf, 20 I will even give them into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life; and their dead bodies shall be food to the fowl of heaven and to the beasts of the earth.


21 Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials I will give into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life and into the hand of the king of Babylon’s army, which has gone away from you. 22 I will command, says the Lord, and cause them to return to this city, and they will fight against it and take it and burn it with fire; and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.”

Jeremiah 34:8-21 Modern English Version (MEV)

​

Keep laughing.

God isn't writing you any reparation checks either......

 

[yidnar]

You have convinced me.


However, part of the blame belongs on the African nations.

The estimated amount owed to the black community is 100 trillion.

"Some proposals have called for direct payments from the U.S. government. Various estimates have been given if such payments were to be made. Harper's Magazine has created an estimate that the total of reparations due is over 100 trillion dollars, based on 222,505,049 hours of forced labor between 1619 and 1865, with a compounded interest of 6%.[6] Should all or part of this amount be paid to the descendants of slaves in the United States, the current U.S. government would only pay a fraction of that cost, over 40 trillion dollars, since it has been in existence only since 1789."
Reparations for slavery debate in the United States - Wikipedia


Which means, G. Britain, and the African nations are on the hook for the other 60 trillion.


If the black community and it's allies in America can get those responsible in the rest of the world to pay their fair share, (IOW, bringing in 60 trillion into those communities,) I have no doubt that the white community in America will step up and do what is right by raising taxes to pay the other 40 trillion.

After all, covering that debt is nothing compared to the blood they shed on the battlefields to free those slaves in the first place. It is after all, only money.

So how much does America pay for continuing violations after slavery? Or do we ask Africa and Britain to pay that too?

millions wounded or killed in the civil war idiot ! remember slaves did not free themselves !

.That war was not fought to free slaves. And black soldiers died in it.

what was the reason for the war them Einstein ?? and how did blacks get free ?? according to your logic if someone murders someone then their great grand children should pay reparations to to the victims descendants .

The north fought to maintain the union. Blacks died in that war. Blacks died in the revolutionary war to free your white asses from Britain also. Don't see you saying anything about that Try as you might with your flimsy meritless arguments, the fact is that when you owe money and die, you family must pay that debt. And until; that debt is paid, your family owes the money. We are owed money for labor rendered that was unpaid. .But that's just one violation and those lik you keep arguimg about this one violation like that was all that happened.

soooo if a hispanic man making 50000 a yr is murdered by a black man then the black mans family should pay the victims family 50000 a yr ....

 

[IM2]

That's not something you would really want me to do. But I am not the punisher and when the punisher exacts his penalty, there is nothing you can do to stop the pain you will feel.

That's not something you would really want me to do.

I do. Really. It would be hilarious.

But I am not the punisher and when the punisher exacts his penalty

Nobody is going to exact reparations to benefit whiny black losers.

Whiny white losers that have no decision making capacity really have nothing to say that needs to be heard.

You keep whining, I'll keep laughing.

“8 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord after the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were in Jerusalem to proclaim liberty to them: 9 that every man should let his male slave and every man his female slave, being a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, go free so that no one should keep them, a Jew his brother, in bondage. 10 Now when all the officials and all the people who had entered into the covenant heard that everyone should let his male slave and everyone his female slave go free, so that no one should keep them any more in bondage, then they obeyed and let them go. 11 But afterward they turned around and caused the male slaves and the female slaves whom they had set free to return, and brought them into subjection for male slaves and female slaves.


12 Therefore the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 13 Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, saying: 14 “At the end of seven years, each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you; and when he has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you.” But your fathers did not obey Me nor incline their ear. 15 You recently turned and did what was right in My sight by proclaiming liberty, every man to his neighbor; and you made a covenant before Me in the house that is called by My name. 16 But then you turned around and profaned My name when every one of you took back his male and female slaves, whom you had set free, at their pleasure, and you brought them into subjection to be your slaves.


17 Therefore thus says the Lord: You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming liberty, everyone to his brother and every man to his neighbor. I proclaim a liberty to you, says the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 18 I will give the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before Me, when they cut the calf in two and passed between the parts, 19 the officials of Judah and the officials of Jerusalem, the court officers, and the priests, and all the people of the land, who passed between the parts of the calf, 20 I will even give them into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life; and their dead bodies shall be food to the fowl of heaven and to the beasts of the earth.


21 Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials I will give into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life and into the hand of the king of Babylon’s army, which has gone away from you. 22 I will command, says the Lord, and cause them to return to this city, and they will fight against it and take it and burn it with fire; and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.”

Jeremiah 34:8-21 Modern English Version (MEV)

​

Keep laughing.

God isn't writing you any reparation checks either......

You will pay what you owe or you will lose what you got. Spiritual law says that.

Only an unwise man makes a statement like you just did..

 

[Unkotare]

Reparations
We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done. This includes:

1. Reparations for the systemic denial of access to high quality educational opportunities in the form of full and free access for all Black people (including undocumented and currently and formerly incarcerated people) to lifetime education including: free access and open admissions to public community colleges and universities, technical education (technology, trade and agricultural), educational support programs, retroactive forgiveness of student loans, and support for lifetime learning programs.
2. Reparations for the continued divestment from, discrimination toward and exploitation of our communities in the form of a guaranteed minimum livable income for all Black people, with clearly articulated corporate regulations.
3. Reparations for the wealth extracted from our communities through environmental racism, slavery, food apartheid, housing discrimination and racialized capitalism in the form of corporate and government reparations focused on healing ongoing physical and mental trauma, and ensuring our access and control of food sources, housing and land.
4. Reparations for the cultural and educational exploitation, erasure, and extraction of our communities in the form of mandated public school curriculums that critically examine the political, economic, and social impacts of colonialism and slavery, and funding to support, build, preserve, and restore cultural assets and sacred sites to ensure the recognition and honoring of our collective struggles and triumphs.
5. Legislation at the federal and state level that requires the United States to acknowledge the lasting impacts of slavery, establish and execute a plan to address those impacts. This includes the immediate passage of H.R.40, the “Commission to Study Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act” or subsequent versions which call for reparations remedies.

1. 
   Reparations - The Movement for Black Lives

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms.

And if we don't get it, we'll continue to be whiny bitches.

.I guarantee that you will whine before I do when you face the punishment caused by your obstinence.

What “punishment” are you talking about, specifically?

 

[IM2]

Whiny white losers that have no decision making capacity really have nothing to say that needs to be heard.

You keep whining, I'll keep laughing.

“8 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord after the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were in Jerusalem to proclaim liberty to them: 9 that every man should let his male slave and every man his female slave, being a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, go free so that no one should keep them, a Jew his brother, in bondage. 10 Now when all the officials and all the people who had entered into the covenant heard that everyone should let his male slave and everyone his female slave go free, so that no one should keep them any more in bondage, then they obeyed and let them go. 11 But afterward they turned around and caused the male slaves and the female slaves whom they had set free to return, and brought them into subjection for male slaves and female slaves.


12 Therefore the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 13 Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, saying: 14 “At the end of seven years, each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you; and when he has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you.” But your fathers did not obey Me nor incline their ear. 15 You recently turned and did what was right in My sight by proclaiming liberty, every man to his neighbor; and you made a covenant before Me in the house that is called by My name. 16 But then you turned around and profaned My name when every one of you took back his male and female slaves, whom you had set free, at their pleasure, and you brought them into subjection to be your slaves.


17 Therefore thus says the Lord: You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming liberty, everyone to his brother and every man to his neighbor. I proclaim a liberty to you, says the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 18 I will give the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before Me, when they cut the calf in two and passed between the parts, 19 the officials of Judah and the officials of Jerusalem, the court officers, and the priests, and all the people of the land, who passed between the parts of the calf, 20 I will even give them into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life; and their dead bodies shall be food to the fowl of heaven and to the beasts of the earth.


21 Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials I will give into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life and into the hand of the king of Babylon’s army, which has gone away from you. 22 I will command, says the Lord, and cause them to return to this city, and they will fight against it and take it and burn it with fire; and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.”

Jeremiah 34:8-21 Modern English Version (MEV)

​

Keep laughing.

God isn't writing you any reparation checks either......

You will pay what you owe or you will lose what you got. Spiritual law says that.

Only an unwise man makes a statement like you just did..

I don't owe you shit.....but if you'd like some, stick your hand out, I'll fill it.

The American government owes us and that's just a fact. You can talk all the shit you want online but nothing changes. We are owed,

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You keep whining, I'll keep laughing.

“8 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord after the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were in Jerusalem to proclaim liberty to them: 9 that every man should let his male slave and every man his female slave, being a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, go free so that no one should keep them, a Jew his brother, in bondage. 10 Now when all the officials and all the people who had entered into the covenant heard that everyone should let his male slave and everyone his female slave go free, so that no one should keep them any more in bondage, then they obeyed and let them go. 11 But afterward they turned around and caused the male slaves and the female slaves whom they had set free to return, and brought them into subjection for male slaves and female slaves.


12 Therefore the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 13 Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, saying: 14 “At the end of seven years, each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you; and when he has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you.” But your fathers did not obey Me nor incline their ear. 15 You recently turned and did what was right in My sight by proclaiming liberty, every man to his neighbor; and you made a covenant before Me in the house that is called by My name. 16 But then you turned around and profaned My name when every one of you took back his male and female slaves, whom you had set free, at their pleasure, and you brought them into subjection to be your slaves.


17 Therefore thus says the Lord: You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming liberty, everyone to his brother and every man to his neighbor. I proclaim a liberty to you, says the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 18 I will give the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before Me, when they cut the calf in two and passed between the parts, 19 the officials of Judah and the officials of Jerusalem, the court officers, and the priests, and all the people of the land, who passed between the parts of the calf, 20 I will even give them into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life; and their dead bodies shall be food to the fowl of heaven and to the beasts of the earth.


21 Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials I will give into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life and into the hand of the king of Babylon’s army, which has gone away from you. 22 I will command, says the Lord, and cause them to return to this city, and they will fight against it and take it and burn it with fire; and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.”

Jeremiah 34:8-21 Modern English Version (MEV)

​

Keep laughing.

God isn't writing you any reparation checks either......

You will pay what you owe or you will lose what you got. Spiritual law says that.

Only an unwise man makes a statement like you just did..

I don't owe you shit.....but if you'd like some, stick your hand out, I'll fill it.

The American government owes us and that's just a fact. You can talk all the shit you want online but nothing changes. We are owed,

To paraphrase Taylor Swift, "You are never, ever, ever getting reparations, like.....ever"

 

[IM2]

“8 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord after the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were in Jerusalem to proclaim liberty to them: 9 that every man should let his male slave and every man his female slave, being a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, go free so that no one should keep them, a Jew his brother, in bondage. 10 Now when all the officials and all the people who had entered into the covenant heard that everyone should let his male slave and everyone his female slave go free, so that no one should keep them any more in bondage, then they obeyed and let them go. 11 But afterward they turned around and caused the male slaves and the female slaves whom they had set free to return, and brought them into subjection for male slaves and female slaves.


12 Therefore the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 13 Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, saying: 14 “At the end of seven years, each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you; and when he has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you.” But your fathers did not obey Me nor incline their ear. 15 You recently turned and did what was right in My sight by proclaiming liberty, every man to his neighbor; and you made a covenant before Me in the house that is called by My name. 16 But then you turned around and profaned My name when every one of you took back his male and female slaves, whom you had set free, at their pleasure, and you brought them into subjection to be your slaves.


17 Therefore thus says the Lord: You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming liberty, everyone to his brother and every man to his neighbor. I proclaim a liberty to you, says the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 18 I will give the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before Me, when they cut the calf in two and passed between the parts, 19 the officials of Judah and the officials of Jerusalem, the court officers, and the priests, and all the people of the land, who passed between the parts of the calf, 20 I will even give them into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life; and their dead bodies shall be food to the fowl of heaven and to the beasts of the earth.


21 Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials I will give into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life and into the hand of the king of Babylon’s army, which has gone away from you. 22 I will command, says the Lord, and cause them to return to this city, and they will fight against it and take it and burn it with fire; and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.”

Jeremiah 34:8-21 Modern English Version (MEV)

​

Keep laughing.

God isn't writing you any reparation checks either......

You will pay what you owe or you will lose what you got. Spiritual law says that.

Only an unwise man makes a statement like you just did..

I don't owe you shit.....but if you'd like some, stick your hand out, I'll fill it.

The American government owes us and that's just a fact. You can talk all the shit you want online but nothing changes. We are owed,

To paraphrase Taylor Swift, "You are never, ever, ever getting reparations, like.....ever"

You have no say regarding any decisions pertaining to reparations.

 

[Unkotare]

Reparations
We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done. This includes:

1. Reparations for the systemic denial of access to high quality educational opportunities in the form of full and free access for all Black people (including undocumented and currently and formerly incarcerated people) to lifetime education including: free access and open admissions to public community colleges and universities, technical education (technology, trade and agricultural), educational support programs, retroactive forgiveness of student loans, and support for lifetime learning programs.
2. Reparations for the continued divestment from, discrimination toward and exploitation of our communities in the form of a guaranteed minimum livable income for all Black people, with clearly articulated corporate regulations.
3. Reparations for the wealth extracted from our communities through environmental racism, slavery, food apartheid, housing discrimination and racialized capitalism in the form of corporate and government reparations focused on healing ongoing physical and mental trauma, and ensuring our access and control of food sources, housing and land.
4. Reparations for the cultural and educational exploitation, erasure, and extraction of our communities in the form of mandated public school curriculums that critically examine the political, economic, and social impacts of colonialism and slavery, and funding to support, build, preserve, and restore cultural assets and sacred sites to ensure the recognition and honoring of our collective struggles and triumphs.
5. Legislation at the federal and state level that requires the United States to acknowledge the lasting impacts of slavery, establish and execute a plan to address those impacts. This includes the immediate passage of H.R.40, the “Commission to Study Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act” or subsequent versions which call for reparations remedies.

1. 
   Reparations - The Movement for Black Lives

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms.

And if we don't get it, we'll continue to be whiny bitches.

.I guarantee that you will whine before I do when you face the punishment caused by your obstinence.

What “punishment” are you talking about, specifically?

Figure it out.

Simple question. Why would you be afraid to speak directly, like a man? Kinda hard to have a discussion if you are too frightened to communicate clearly.

 

[IM2]

Reparations
We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done. This includes:

1. Reparations for the systemic denial of access to high quality educational opportunities in the form of full and free access for all Black people (including undocumented and currently and formerly incarcerated people) to lifetime education including: free access and open admissions to public community colleges and universities, technical education (technology, trade and agricultural), educational support programs, retroactive forgiveness of student loans, and support for lifetime learning programs.
2. Reparations for the continued divestment from, discrimination toward and exploitation of our communities in the form of a guaranteed minimum livable income for all Black people, with clearly articulated corporate regulations.
3. Reparations for the wealth extracted from our communities through environmental racism, slavery, food apartheid, housing discrimination and racialized capitalism in the form of corporate and government reparations focused on healing ongoing physical and mental trauma, and ensuring our access and control of food sources, housing and land.
4. Reparations for the cultural and educational exploitation, erasure, and extraction of our communities in the form of mandated public school curriculums that critically examine the political, economic, and social impacts of colonialism and slavery, and funding to support, build, preserve, and restore cultural assets and sacred sites to ensure the recognition and honoring of our collective struggles and triumphs.
5. Legislation at the federal and state level that requires the United States to acknowledge the lasting impacts of slavery, establish and execute a plan to address those impacts. This includes the immediate passage of H.R.40, the “Commission to Study Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act” or subsequent versions which call for reparations remedies.

1. 
   Reparations - The Movement for Black Lives

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms.

And if we don't get it, we'll continue to be whiny bitches.

.I guarantee that you will whine before I do when you face the punishment caused by your obstinence.

What “punishment” are you talking about, specifically?

Figure it out.

Simple question. Why would you be afraid to speak directly, like a man? Kinda hard to have a discussion if you are too frightened to communicate clearly.

I've made myself very clear. So if you can't figure it out, that's your problem. Because I'm done answering dumb ass questions. You have no questions to ask. Reparations have been given to others so you have no reason to oppose blacks trying to get them.

 

[Unkotare]

Every citizen has a say to some degree in what our government does.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't owe you shit.....but if you'd like some, stick your hand out, I'll fill it.

The American government owes us and that's just a fact. You can talk all the shit you want online but nothing changes. We are owed,

To paraphrase Taylor Swift, "You are never, ever, ever getting reparations, like.....ever"

You have no say regarding any decisions pertaining to reparations.

And neither do you.....so continue whining.

I have more of a say than you think. You have zero say and I know.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Unkotare]

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms.

And if we don't get it, we'll continue to be whiny bitches.

.I guarantee that you will whine before I do when you face the punishment caused by your obstinence.

What “punishment” are you talking about, specifically?

Figure it out.

Simple question. Why would you be afraid to speak directly, like a man? Kinda hard to have a discussion if you are too frightened to communicate clearly.

I've made myself very clear. So if you can't figure it out, that's your problem...

You realize that’s a contradiction, right?


How about a discussion?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't owe you shit.....but if you'd like some, stick your hand out, I'll fill it.

The American government owes us and that's just a fact. You can talk all the shit you want online but nothing changes. We are owed,

To paraphrase Taylor Swift, "You are never, ever, ever getting reparations, like.....ever"

You have no say regarding any decisions pertaining to reparations.

And neither do you.....so continue whining.

I have more of a say than you think. You have zero say and I know.

How successful have your decades of whining been so far?

 

[Montrovant]

the fact is that when you owe money and die, you family must pay that debt

Where is this true? Which family? A spouse, perhaps, but your children do not have to pay your debt when you die.

You seem to be basing your argument on a false premise.

.

Not really. I once sold life insurance One reason for that is to pay bills owed when a person dies so their family doesn't suffer. Now in the case of reparations we are talking about a government not a child, an individual or family or anything else you guys at trying to argue.

"You guys" argue? You are the one that said when you owe money when you die, your family has to pay that debt. I just quoted your post saying that.

OK, you sold life insurance. That doesn't mean that any member of a person's family, or even immediate family, takes on their debt when they die. If my parents were to die while owing debt, I would not be required to pay that debt. So based on your argument, the unpaid wages are not owed, because that debt would have ended with the deaths of those who owed it. At least that portion of any potential reparations can be eliminated.

You're wrong. Your entire argument in opposition to reparations is wrong. It's a silly argument that if you really think, you understand has no merit. Period.

If I'm wrong, why don't you point out the relevant federal or state law(s) which obligates children to pay the debts of their parents.

Have I actually made an argument against reparations? All I recall doing was countering some points you have made and giving my opinion that reparations for slavery will not happen.

If you want an argument against reparations as you seem to support the idea (money given to each black American), it would be that the wrongs involved are far too non-specific and difficult to prove; that you are asking for reparations to be given to far too large a group; and that you are combining too many factors over too long a time period.

For the first, while slavery is an easy to see, specific wrong, the claims that it continues to cause harm are much less specific and are more difficult to prove. The same could be said for things like segregation and Jim Crow laws; while the laws involved can be pointed to as specific causes of harm, the lingering effects now that they are gone are far more difficult to prove with causation.

For the second, I believe you have said that all blacks should be given reparations. I will operate under the assumption that means all black Americans. That is just too many people. Based on Census Bureau estimates, that would be more than 40 million people. That would be an unprecedented number of people to receive reparations. The logistics would be difficult; there would be questions of what harm was actually caused by the government, particularly for those who have not long been Americans (would someone who became naturalized just before such reparations went into affect be eligible?); and how much money would go to that many people would be extremely contentious.

For the third, I think it's fairly self-explanatory. Slavery happened. The slaves should have been compensated once they were freed. Barring that, their children should have been compensated. However, at what point does that end? Before that can be figured out, you've already combined that with Jim Crow laws, segregation, and the far more amorphous 'lingering effects' of the various rights violations and discrimination that occurred in the past, as well as the perceived systemic racism of the present. I very intentionally use the word 'perceived' because proving harm caused by racist attitudes rather than written laws is much more difficult. Then there is the difficulty of showing causation between racist attitudes today and slavery or Jim Crow or segregation or whichever other wrongs you are adding to the mix and asking or demanding compensation for.

I don't oppose any discussion of or possibility of reparations. However, the extremely broad way you present it, with seemingly every black American receiving money, is unrealistic IMO. Even then, I could perhaps see something like that happening in a symbolic gesture: If the government put aside $10,000,000,000 for reparations, for example, that would only come out to around $200-250 per black American. It would not be any sort of financial windfall, but it would be a concrete and sizeable sum that could be pointed at.

Let's compare this to the reparations for Japanese internment during WWII. The US government authorized $20,000 each to around 60,000 people. That's certainly a lot more than the $200 in my previous example. However, those $20,000 payments were specifically to the survivors of internment. They were not being given to all the children and grandchildren of those interred. Giving reparations to all black Americans would be a different sort of situation, involving people who were never directly affected by slavery, or legal segregation, or Jim Crow laws. It could potentially involve people who have not even been Americans long. It would not be the government saying "This particular wrong was done to you by the government, and should be redressed." Instead, it would be more like "One of various wrongs may have been done to you. In case one of them may have, you will be compensated."

One last point on reparations: I wonder whether any sort of reparations would actually do any good as far as race relations in the country go. Would blacks feel their grievances had been addressed? Would racist whites change their attitudes? Would other races feel resentful that blacks were singled out for reparations? If systemic racism is still an issue, how would reparations help?

I don't know what spiritual law it is you've brought up multiple times now, but I'm pretty sure I don't follow it.

 

[Foxfyre]

the fact is that when you owe money and die, you family must pay that debt

Where is this true? Which family? A spouse, perhaps, but your children do not have to pay your debt when you die.

You seem to be basing your argument on a false premise.

.

Not really. I once sold life insurance One reason for that is to pay bills owed when a person dies so their family doesn't suffer. Now in the case of reparations we are talking about a government not a child, an individual or family or anything else you guys at trying to argue.

"You guys" argue? You are the one that said when you owe money when you die, your family has to pay that debt. I just quoted your post saying that.

OK, you sold life insurance. That doesn't mean that any member of a person's family, or even immediate family, takes on their debt when they die. If my parents were to die while owing debt, I would not be required to pay that debt. So based on your argument, the unpaid wages are not owed, because that debt would have ended with the deaths of those who owed it. At least that portion of any potential reparations can be eliminated.

You're wrong. Your entire argument in opposition to reparations is wrong. It's a silly argument that if you really think, you understand has no merit. Period.

If I'm wrong, why don't you point out the relevant federal or state law(s) which obligates children to pay the debts of their parents.

Have I actually made an argument against reparations? All I recall doing was countering some points you have made and giving my opinion that reparations for slavery will not happen.

If you want an argument against reparations as you seem to support the idea (money given to each black American), it would be that the wrongs involved are far too non-specific and difficult to prove; that you are asking for reparations to be given to far too large a group; and that you are combining too many factors over too long a time period.

For the first, while slavery is an easy to see, specific wrong, the claims that it continues to cause harm are much less specific and are more difficult to prove. The same could be said for things like segregation and Jim Crow laws; while the laws involved can be pointed to as specific causes of harm, the lingering effects now that they are gone are far more difficult to prove with causation.

For the second, I believe you have said that all blacks should be given reparations. I will operate under the assumption that means all black Americans. That is just too many people. Based on Census Bureau estimates, that would be more than 40 million people. That would be an unprecedented number of people to receive reparations. The logistics would be difficult; there would be questions of what harm was actually caused by the government, particularly for those who have not long been Americans (would someone who became naturalized just before such reparations went into affect be eligible?); and how much money would go to that many people would be extremely contentious.

For the third, I think it's fairly self-explanatory. Slavery happened. The slaves should have been compensated once they were freed. Barring that, their children should have been compensated. However, at what point does that end? Before that can be figured out, you've already combined that with Jim Crow laws, segregation, and the far more amorphous 'lingering effects' of the various rights violations and discrimination that occurred in the past, as well as the perceived systemic racism of the present. I very intentionally use the word 'perceived' because proving harm caused by racist attitudes rather than written laws is much more difficult. Then there is the difficulty of showing causation between racist attitudes today and slavery or Jim Crow or segregation or whichever other wrongs you are adding to the mix and asking or demanding compensation for.

I don't oppose any discussion of or possibility of reparations. However, the extremely broad way you present it, with seemingly every black American receiving money, is unrealistic IMO. Even then, I could perhaps see something like that happening in a symbolic gesture: If the government put aside $10,000,000,000 for reparations, for example, that would only come out to around $200-250 per black American. It would not be any sort of financial windfall, but it would be a concrete and sizeable sum that could be pointed at.

Let's compare this to the reparations for Japanese internment during WWII. The US government authorized $20,000 each to around 60,000 people. That's certainly a lot more than the $200 in my previous example. However, those $20,000 payments were specifically to the survivors of internment. They were not being given to all the children and grandchildren of those interred. Giving reparations to all black Americans would be a different sort of situation, involving people who were never directly affected by slavery, or legal segregation, or Jim Crow laws. It could potentially involve people who have not even been Americans long. It would not be the government saying "This particular wrong was done to you by the government, and should be redressed." Instead, it would be more like "One of various wrongs may have been done to you. In case one of them may have, you will be compensated."

One last point on reparations: I wonder whether any sort of reparations would actually do any good as far as race relations in the country go. Would blacks feel their grievances had been addressed? Would racist whites change their attitudes? Would other races feel resentful that blacks were singled out for reparations? If systemic racism is still an issue, how would reparations help?

I don't know what spiritual law it is you've brought up multiple times now, but I'm pretty sure I don't follow it.

Germany is still paying reparations to SURVIVORS of the Holocaust as those people were physically, emotionally, and mentally traumatized. When the last of the victims is gone, the reparations stop.

The USA paid reparations to those Americans who actually were harmed by the forced interments following the attack on Pearl Harbor. That was a fairly short term thing with much less harm done than what Holocaust victims suffered, but they were rightfully entitled to be compensated for the government initiated violation of their civil rights.

You nailed it with the concept that those who endured slavery and/or their children were due reparations. However, all those people are now dead.

If all black people were compensated now for the harm done to the slaves and that was done during segregation, then reparations would be due to the millions of more recently immigrated black people whose ancestors were not victimized by all of that. And reparations would be given to descendants of black slave owners or descendants of those who captured people in Africa and delivered them to the slave ships.

And countless millions of Americans, none of whom have had any part of any of that--whose ancestors were no part of that--would be required to pay those reparations just because their skin isn't black?

Not a concept any fair minded, liberty minded, pro-justice person could support.

Walter Williams once expressed the problems with reparations--I posted that earlier in this thread. Additionally he was a descendant of African slaves, born and grew up under segregation, and now he holds a PhD in economics and achieved full professorship at George Mason University and was head of the Economics department for at least awhile.

He muses that while there can be no justification or excuse for the institution of slavery--it is a cruel, unconscionable, vile and hateful thing--he nevertheless sees that he benefited from the fact that somebody captured his ancestor(s) and dragged them over here on slave ships and no doubt mistreated them on some plantation.

That allowed his parents to be here as free citizens, for him to grow up as a free citizen, have means to escape a rather poor childhood, achieve a first rate education, have a great life and be worth millions, none of which would be anywhere near as likely had he been born in the African bush or jungle.

He does not suggest that this in any way is a justification of or endorsement of slavery or segregation that he wholeheartedly condemns. But he is intellectually honest that he in no way was personally traumatized or even disadvantaged because of slavery or segregation. Nobody owes him or anybody else living today reparations because of slavery or segregation.

 

[squeeze berry]

if reparations were paid then there would just be some other grievance to settle one after another until the end of time

 

[IM2]

If blacks want reparations, we could offer to send them all back to Africa for free.

.I guarantee that you will whine before I do when you face the punishment caused by your obstinence.

What “punishment” are you talking about, specifically?

Figure it out.

Simple question. Why would you be afraid to speak directly, like a man? Kinda hard to have a discussion if you are too frightened to communicate clearly.

I've made myself very clear. So if you can't figure it out, that's your problem...

You realize that’s a contradiction, right?


How about a discussion?

What is there to discuss?

 

[Unkotare]

If blacks want reparations, we could offer to send them all back to Africa for free.

What “punishment” are you talking about, specifically?

Figure it out.

Simple question. Why would you be afraid to speak directly, like a man? Kinda hard to have a discussion if you are too frightened to communicate clearly.

I've made myself very clear. So if you can't figure it out, that's your problem...

You realize that’s a contradiction, right?


How about a discussion?

What is there to discuss?

You could start by answering my question.

 

[IM2]

the fact is that when you owe money and die, you family must pay that debt

Where is this true? Which family? A spouse, perhaps, but your children do not have to pay your debt when you die.

You seem to be basing your argument on a false premise.

.

Not really. I once sold life insurance One reason for that is to pay bills owed when a person dies so their family doesn't suffer. Now in the case of reparations we are talking about a government not a child, an individual or family or anything else you guys at trying to argue.

"You guys" argue? You are the one that said when you owe money when you die, your family has to pay that debt. I just quoted your post saying that.

OK, you sold life insurance. That doesn't mean that any member of a person's family, or even immediate family, takes on their debt when they die. If my parents were to die while owing debt, I would not be required to pay that debt. So based on your argument, the unpaid wages are not owed, because that debt would have ended with the deaths of those who owed it. At least that portion of any potential reparations can be eliminated.

You're wrong. Your entire argument in opposition to reparations is wrong. It's a silly argument that if you really think, you understand has no merit. Period.

If I'm wrong, why don't you point out the relevant federal or state law(s) which obligates children to pay the debts of their parents.

Have I actually made an argument against reparations? All I recall doing was countering some points you have made and giving my opinion that reparations for slavery will not happen.

If you want an argument against reparations as you seem to support the idea (money given to each black American), it would be that the wrongs involved are far too non-specific and difficult to prove; that you are asking for reparations to be given to far too large a group; and that you are combining too many factors over too long a time period.

For the first, while slavery is an easy to see, specific wrong, the claims that it continues to cause harm are much less specific and are more difficult to prove. The same could be said for things like segregation and Jim Crow laws; while the laws involved can be pointed to as specific causes of harm, the lingering effects now that they are gone are far more difficult to prove with causation.

For the second, I believe you have said that all blacks should be given reparations. I will operate under the assumption that means all black Americans. That is just too many people. Based on Census Bureau estimates, that would be more than 40 million people. That would be an unprecedented number of people to receive reparations. The logistics would be difficult; there would be questions of what harm was actually caused by the government, particularly for those who have not long been Americans (would someone who became naturalized just before such reparations went into affect be eligible?); and how much money would go to that many people would be extremely contentious.

For the third, I think it's fairly self-explanatory. Slavery happened. The slaves should have been compensated once they were freed. Barring that, their children should have been compensated. However, at what point does that end? Before that can be figured out, you've already combined that with Jim Crow laws, segregation, and the far more amorphous 'lingering effects' of the various rights violations and discrimination that occurred in the past, as well as the perceived systemic racism of the present. I very intentionally use the word 'perceived' because proving harm caused by racist attitudes rather than written laws is much more difficult. Then there is the difficulty of showing causation between racist attitudes today and slavery or Jim Crow or segregation or whichever other wrongs you are adding to the mix and asking or demanding compensation for.

I don't oppose any discussion of or possibility of reparations. However, the extremely broad way you present it, with seemingly every black American receiving money, is unrealistic IMO. Even then, I could perhaps see something like that happening in a symbolic gesture: If the government put aside $10,000,000,000 for reparations, for example, that would only come out to around $200-250 per black American. It would not be any sort of financial windfall, but it would be a concrete and sizeable sum that could be pointed at.

Let's compare this to the reparations for Japanese internment during WWII. The US government authorized $20,000 each to around 60,000 people. That's certainly a lot more than the $200 in my previous example. However, those $20,000 payments were specifically to the survivors of internment. They were not being given to all the children and grandchildren of those interred. Giving reparations to all black Americans would be a different sort of situation, involving people who were never directly affected by slavery, or legal segregation, or Jim Crow laws. It could potentially involve people who have not even been Americans long. It would not be the government saying "This particular wrong was done to you by the government, and should be redressed." Instead, it would be more like "One of various wrongs may have been done to you. In case one of them may have, you will be compensated."

One last point on reparations: I wonder whether any sort of reparations would actually do any good as far as race relations in the country go. Would blacks feel their grievances had been addressed? Would racist whites change their attitudes? Would other races feel resentful that blacks were singled out for reparations? If systemic racism is still an issue, how would reparations help?

I don't know what spiritual law it is you've brought up multiple times now, but I'm pretty sure I don't follow it.

Montrovant you keep talking stupid. We are not talking about what kids owe. We are talking about government sanctioned human rights violations. You can't say that any that number that has been the victims of human rights violations. Let 40 million people outside the US face human rights violations ad you don't make that comment. Then you don't figure that every back person eligible may not take reparations. I hardly think Oprah will be concerned with a check for reparations.

Then there is the problem o f"white think". For some odd reason whites think that because they cannot figure this out we can't either. The human rights violations are specific and are not difficult to prove. If race relations get worse because of reparations it will be due to whites who have been grossly misinformed as to what reparations mean . Other minority groups have received reparations so blacks are not being singled out. .The spiritual law pertaining to this matter is written in the bible It doesn't matter what you don' follow. We either get what we are owed or this nation is doomed.

 

[IM2]

If blacks want reparations, we could offer to send them all back to Africa for free.

Figure it out.

Simple question. Why would you be afraid to speak directly, like a man? Kinda hard to have a discussion if you are too frightened to communicate clearly.

I've made myself very clear. So if you can't figure it out, that's your problem...

You realize that’s a contradiction, right?


How about a discussion?

What is there to discuss?

You could start by answering my question.

.
You have read my posts to Toddster so then you have no question to ask.