S&P Cuts France's Credit Rating

Edgetho

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2012
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For you folks who think Europe and its social democracy/democratic socialism is the way to go, you need to start paying attention.

Why? Because somebody is feeding you a line of bullshit. If you are naive enough to believe that Europe's democratic socialism is working, then you're naive enough to think it can work here, too.

The biggest exception to the 'rule' is Germany. And a couple of things..... Angela Merkel is ANYTHING but liberal and, well..... They're Germans. They almost made communism work fer chrissakes.

The article's link won't work. You'll run into a subscription wall. Go to the WSJ and C&P the headline into google and you should be able to pick it up without a problem.

The Wall Street Journal - Breaking News, Business, Financial and Economic News, World News & Video - Wall Street Journal - Wsj.com


S&P Cuts France's Credit Rating

PARIS—Standard & Poor's Ratings Services on Friday cut France's credit rating by one notch to AA, sharply criticizing President François Hollande's strategy for repairing the country's economy and saying he has little room for maneuver to fix its finances.

BN-AI197_frrati_D_20131108062657.jpg

Protesters wearing red caps,
the symbol of protest in Brittany,
and with their regional flag,
watch as wooden crates burn at
a barricade held by French riot police,
during a demonstration to maintain jobs
in Quimper, France, on Nov. 2.



"We believe the French government's reforms to taxation, as well as to product, services, and labor markets, will not substantially raise France's medium-term growth prospects," S&P said. "Furthermore, we believe lower economic growth is constraining the government's ability to consolidate public finances."

S&P, which lowered France from double-A-plus, shifted its outlook for the rating to stable from negative. This implies the probability of an upgrade or a downgrade is below one in three.

S&P's decision comes as broader doubts take hold in France about Mr. Hollande's approach to rekindling economic growth through a series of incremental steps, instead of bold moves, to avoid sparking popular backlash. Recent unrest in the rural region of Brittany and widespread fatigue with higher taxes among both corporations and households, as well as a number of clashes between the president and members of his fragile majority in parliament, have exposed the limitations of his go-slow strategy.

S&P's action is the third downgrade of France by a major ratings agency since Mr. Hollande was elected in May 2012, and follows its decision to strip France's coveted triple-A rating in January 2012.

The downgrade comes at a critical juncture for Mr. Hollande as his government seeks to push a difficult budget through parliament.

The government says it has shifted to spending cuts for next year's budget in a battle to reduce the crisis-swollen deficit, but Paris is still relying on tax increases, building on the almost €30 billion ($40.26 billion) of hikes voted in the six months after Mr. Hollande took office in May 2012.

Government officials argued that taxation drags less on growth in the short term, but the economy failed to grow at all in 2012 and dropped into recession at the turn of the year before recovering in the second quarter. The tax-heavy policy hasn't delivered the results Mr. Hollande initially sought and the target of getting the deficit below 3% of economic output has already slipped from this year to 2015. Without further measures, the European Commission warned earlier this week that France will also miss that target with a deficit at 3.7% in 2015

Now even small tax increases slated for the 2014 budget have met with protest and pushed the government into a series of U-turns.

Combined with stubbornly high unemployment near 11%, the to-and-fro on taxation has deeply harmed the Socialist's president's popularity with a few months to go before local and European elections in the spring. Only 25% of French people are confident Mr. Hollande has what it takes to deal with the country's problems, according to a poll of 1,006 people by CSA this week. That marks the lowest score for a French president since the creation of CSA's monthly poll 20 years ago.

The political situation leaves the government with little room to raise taxes, S&P said. On the spending side, the agency said the government's current steps and future plans to cut spending will only have a modest impact, leaving the country with limited levers to reduce its deficit.
 
There's a BIG difference between taxing out of spit and taxing out of fairness

France wants to tax the rich 70-90% of there incomes

I want and most Americans want to tax at the same percentage as the middle class...See the difference?
 
There's a BIG difference between taxing out of spit and taxing out of fairness

France wants to tax the rich 70-90% of there incomes

I want and most Americans want to tax at the same percentage as the middle class...See the difference?

No. There is no difference. It is all about "fairness."
France's Hollande Proposes 75 Percent Tax on Wealthy

But "fairness" means whatever anyone wants it to mean.

The downgrade is a warning that high spending, high regulation, and high taxation of "the wealthy" does not reduce deficits and does not make for a healthier economy. As if anyone really thought it would.
 
There's a BIG difference between taxing out of spit and taxing out of fairness

France wants to tax the rich 70-90% of there incomes

I want and most Americans want to tax at the same percentage as the middle class...See the difference?

Not that I agree with that atrocious rate, I DONT. They're pretty ludicrous.

But just to fix your post's misconception................

say the tax rate for millionaires went to 70%.

That doesn't mean 70% of their income goes to taxes. It means that over 1 million dollars begins getting taxed at 70%.

Their first $999, 999 is taxed down the line of whatever progressive rates there are in each tax bracket.

Meaning everyone's first $20k is taxed at x-rate.

20-30k is taxed at x-rate, and so forth. You don't just have the flat number as your tax rate as your post assumed.
 
Last edited:
This was the same Standard and Poors that said that Lehman Brothers and Bear-Sterns were AAA the week before they collapsed and took the whole world economy down with them.

Because Fannie and Freddie were lying to them about the quality of the Mortgage bundles they were selling and S&P was stupid enough to believe them. The CRA, remember? That thing that didn't cause the Financial crash.

Doesn't matter. It is so far beyond your comprehensions......

S&P and Moodys are the primary determiners of the interest rates Countries have to pay to people who buy their bonds.

If you want to pay 1%-2% Interest, you better have a good credit rating from them.

If you want to pay 5% and higher, then you tell S&P to piss off.

You're so fucking smart, I bet you were running Portugal's finances, huh?

Higher Bond Interest Rates can bankrupt a Country. But, like I said, this is so far over your head it isn't even funny
 
There's a BIG difference between taxing out of spit and taxing out of fairness

France wants to tax the rich 70-90% of there incomes

I want and most Americans want to tax at the same percentage as the middle class...See the difference?

Not that I agree with that atrocious rate, I DONT. They're pretty ludicrous.

But just to fix your post's misconception................

say the tax rate for millionaires went to 70%.

That doesn't mean 70% of their income goes to taxes. It means that over 1 million dollars begins getting taxed at 70%.

Their first $999, 999 is taxed down the line of whatever progressive rates there are in each tax bracket.

Meaning everyone's first $20k is taxed at x-rate.

20-30k is taxed at x-rate, and so forth. You don't just have the flat number as your tax rate as your post assumed.

That's a true fact.

But the people who earn that kind of money don't care -- They're leaving. Especially for Britain who has some kind of special rule that allows newly arrived people to avoid taxes altogether for several years.

The 'Brain Drain' will eventual cripple France. And they're not all that well off in that department to start with.

France is a big Country, the biggest in Europe. If France goes down, she's taking Europe with her. And if Europe goes down, guess who they're taking with them?
 
This was the same Standard and Poors that said that Lehman Brothers and Bear-Sterns were AAA the week before they collapsed and took the whole world economy down with them.

Because Fannie and Freddie were lying to them about the quality of the Mortgage bundles they were selling and S&P was stupid enough to believe them. The CRA, remember? That thing that didn't cause the Financial crash.

Doesn't matter. It is so far beyond your comprehensions......

S&P and Moodys are the primary determiners of the interest rates Countries have to pay to people who buy their bonds.

If you want to pay 1%-2% Interest, you better have a good credit rating from them.

If you want to pay 5% and higher, then you tell S&P to piss off.

You're so fucking smart, I bet you were running Portugal's finances, huh?

Higher Bond Interest Rates can bankrupt a Country. But, like I said, this is so far over your head it isn't even funny

CRA had nothing to do with the financial collapse. Even the banking industry isn't making that claim. Of the 25 banks that needed to be bailed out, only ONE was even subject to the CRA. CRA banks were actually more tightly regulated.

The CRA merely stated that banks couldn't "redline" certain neighborhoods. It did not force anyone to make a loan to someone who wasn't creditworthy.

No, the banks made bad loans because they thought they could always foreclose and get their money back after milking the last bit of interest, and they sold off $100,000 mortgages as million dollar assets. And S&P and Moody's totally went along with that.

The problem here is that Moody's and S&P do have too much power, and where's the check and balance on them?
 
[

That's a true fact.

But the people who earn that kind of money don't care -- They're leaving. Especially for Britain who has some kind of special rule that allows newly arrived people to avoid taxes altogether for several years.

The 'Brain Drain' will eventual cripple France. And they're not all that well off in that department to start with.

France is a big Country, the biggest in Europe. If France goes down, she's taking Europe with her. And if Europe goes down, guess who they're taking with them?

Yeah, Englans with her socialized medicine... and need for cash. that's like a chicken going to hide from Frank Perdue by going to Colonel Sanders' house.
 
France is not the biggest country in Europe. Germany is far larger.

France has a real problem. It has little growth and an antiquated economic system that is creaking under the weight of all it's social programs.
 
If they had control of their own currency, like they used to, this wouldn't be happening.

Most liberals support the Euro's creation, but I'm one that did not. Sovereign countries must retain control of their currency. France would be smart to dump the Euro, or as i like to call it, the Neu Mark.
 
For you folks who think Europe and its social democracy/democratic socialism is the way to go, you need to start paying attention.

Why? Because somebody is feeding you a line of bullshit. If you are naive enough to believe that Europe's democratic socialism is working, then you're naive enough to think it can work here, too.

The biggest exception to the 'rule' is Germany. And a couple of things..... Angela Merkel is ANYTHING but liberal and, well..... They're Germans. They almost made communism work fer chrissakes.

The article's link won't work. You'll run into a subscription wall. Go to the WSJ and C&P the headline into google and you should be able to pick it up without a problem.

The Wall Street Journal - Breaking News, Business, Financial and Economic News, World News & Video - Wall Street Journal - Wsj.com


S&P Cuts France's Credit Rating

PARIS—Standard & Poor's Ratings Services on Friday cut France's credit rating by one notch to AA, sharply criticizing President François Hollande's strategy for repairing the country's economy and saying he has little room for maneuver to fix its finances.

BN-AI197_frrati_D_20131108062657.jpg

Protesters wearing red caps,
the symbol of protest in Brittany,
and with their regional flag,
watch as wooden crates burn at
a barricade held by French riot police,
during a demonstration to maintain jobs
in Quimper, France, on Nov. 2.



"We believe the French government's reforms to taxation, as well as to product, services, and labor markets, will not substantially raise France's medium-term growth prospects," S&P said. "Furthermore, we believe lower economic growth is constraining the government's ability to consolidate public finances."

S&P, which lowered France from double-A-plus, shifted its outlook for the rating to stable from negative. This implies the probability of an upgrade or a downgrade is below one in three.

S&P's decision comes as broader doubts take hold in France about Mr. Hollande's approach to rekindling economic growth through a series of incremental steps, instead of bold moves, to avoid sparking popular backlash. Recent unrest in the rural region of Brittany and widespread fatigue with higher taxes among both corporations and households, as well as a number of clashes between the president and members of his fragile majority in parliament, have exposed the limitations of his go-slow strategy.

S&P's action is the third downgrade of France by a major ratings agency since Mr. Hollande was elected in May 2012, and follows its decision to strip France's coveted triple-A rating in January 2012.

The downgrade comes at a critical juncture for Mr. Hollande as his government seeks to push a difficult budget through parliament.

The government says it has shifted to spending cuts for next year's budget in a battle to reduce the crisis-swollen deficit, but Paris is still relying on tax increases, building on the almost €30 billion ($40.26 billion) of hikes voted in the six months after Mr. Hollande took office in May 2012.

Government officials argued that taxation drags less on growth in the short term, but the economy failed to grow at all in 2012 and dropped into recession at the turn of the year before recovering in the second quarter. The tax-heavy policy hasn't delivered the results Mr. Hollande initially sought and the target of getting the deficit below 3% of economic output has already slipped from this year to 2015. Without further measures, the European Commission warned earlier this week that France will also miss that target with a deficit at 3.7% in 2015

Now even small tax increases slated for the 2014 budget have met with protest and pushed the government into a series of U-turns.

Combined with stubbornly high unemployment near 11%, the to-and-fro on taxation has deeply harmed the Socialist's president's popularity with a few months to go before local and European elections in the spring. Only 25% of French people are confident Mr. Hollande has what it takes to deal with the country's problems, according to a poll of 1,006 people by CSA this week. That marks the lowest score for a French president since the creation of CSA's monthly poll 20 years ago.

The political situation leaves the government with little room to raise taxes, S&P said. On the spending side, the agency said the government's current steps and future plans to cut spending will only have a modest impact, leaving the country with limited levers to reduce its deficit.
Angela Merkel is not conservative enough to be elected by the Tea Party in the US. Hell, they have Socialized Medicine.
 
If they had control of their own currency, like they used to, this wouldn't be happening.

Most liberals support the Euro's creation, but I'm one that did not. Sovereign countries must retain control of their currency. France would be smart to dump the Euro, or as i like to call it, the Neu Mark.

You're right. It would be worse. They would have trememndous inflation as a result of people dumping their currency and much higher interest payments on their debt.
So aside from your customer stupidity, do you have anything else to add here?
 
No matter where you stand with regard opinions on credit agencies like S&P, the fact remains that France's economy is in trouble and will have more problems next year. Yes, I know our own economy here in uK possesses its own problems, but unlike France or any other EZ member state, the UK is not constrained within the euro straightjacket.

The following news report from RT News can be acquired via YouTube

Economic Financial Collapse Europe EuroZone Crisis

Published on 9 Nov 2013

Unquote. Note the news footage centres on France. Note I am a new member and cannot supply a link at this time, but, for those interested, if you enter the headline into google or othersearch engine you should have little problems finding and viewing it.
 

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