RINO Romney's Pro-Choice Record

[JimBowie1958]

This is all typical RINO camoflage and fakery.

Report on the pro-life views of Gov. Mitt Romney

THE TOP SIX PROBLEMS: Since Romney's famous pro-life "conversion" in November 2004, note the following -

1. Romney said that he does not favor a federal constitutional amendment banning abortion, but instead favors each state deciding for itself whether to allow abortion or not. (Suppose Lincoln had taken that approach on the slavery issue. )

2. Gov. Romney signed into law a universal health insurance plan that (a) includes increased state-funded abortions, and (b) names Planned Parenthood in the law as an overseer. Romney never challenged any of that.

3. Romney said he would disagree with governmental intervention in the Terri Schiavo forced starvation case, adding "I think it's probably best to leave these kinds of matters in the hands of the courts."

4. Gov. Romney forced Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts to dispense the "morning after" pill.

5. Romney said he does not object to stem cell research using left over human embryos.

6. Although Romney vetoed pro-abortion legislation after his "conversion", it always appeared to be for political effect. The Legislature always overrode the vetoes. We never saw Romney exert any substantial effort to get his vetoes sustained.

 

[editec]

But if you don't like those positions he has others.

He's adaptable like that.

 

[JoeB131]

This is all typical RINO camoflage and fakery.

Report on the pro-life views of Gov. Mitt Romney

THE TOP SIX PROBLEMS: Since Romney's famous pro-life "conversion" in November 2004, note the following -

1. Romney said that he does not favor a federal constitutional amendment banning abortion, but instead favors each state deciding for itself whether to allow abortion or not. (Suppose Lincoln had taken that approach on the slavery issue. )

2. Gov. Romney signed into law a universal health insurance plan that (a) includes increased state-funded abortions, and (b) names Planned Parenthood in the law as an overseer. Romney never challenged any of that.

3. Romney said he would disagree with governmental intervention in the Terri Schiavo forced starvation case, adding "I think it's probably best to leave these kinds of matters in the hands of the courts."

4. Gov. Romney forced Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts to dispense the "morning after" pill.

5. Romney said he does not object to stem cell research using left over human embryos.

6. Although Romney vetoed pro-abortion legislation after his "conversion", it always appeared to be for political effect. The Legislature always overrode the vetoes. We never saw Romney exert any substantial effort to get his vetoes sustained.

I really don't like Romney, but I don't care that much about this.

Frankly, I wish the abortion issue would go away, and stop distorting our politics.

We are never going to have a federal law banning abortion. The Supreme Court will never overturn Roe v. Wade.

Even if these things happened, such a law would be about as effective as the 18th Amendment and the Volsted Act was in banning alcohol sales.

Now, what bothers me about Romney in this is what it says about his character.

He ran to right left on the issue from where he was personally (Mormons take a dim view of Abortion) because it was the only way he could get elected in Massachusetts.

Then he ran to the right on the issue in 2008 because he wanted to fool the Evangelicals into thinking he was one of them.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I really don't like Romney, but I don't care that much about this.

Frankly, I wish the abortion issue would go away, and stop distorting our politics.

We are never going to have a federal law banning abortion. The Supreme Court will never overturn Roe v. Wade.

I think most pro-life people now think the best shot is simply to get the 'right' to an abortion removed and let each individual state pass its own law, which is what the situation was prior to Roe. A constitutional amendment that strengthens the 10th amendment and specificaly mentions abortion as one of the issues the federal government cannot regulate is probably the best approach at this point in time.

If you consider the demographic effects of abortion on demand and it is apparent that this is not a harmless issue for our nation.

Even if these things happened, such a law would be about as effective as the 18th Amendment and the Volsted Act was in banning alcohol sales.

All laws are violated every day. That does not mean they cannot be enforced in the majority of the cases or that they do not keep an even larger problem from developing.

Now, what bothers me about Romney in this is what it says about his character.

He ran to right left on the issue from where he was personally (Mormons take a dim view of Abortion) because it was the only way he could get elected in Massachusetts.

Then he ran to the right on the issue in 2008 because he wanted to fool the Evangelicals into thinking he was one of them.

Romney's real concerns and values are not fathomable at this point because he says what ever he thinks he needs to to get elected. What Romney should he get into office is most likely going to be the same as what he did in Massachussettes; fake being conservative and promote socially liberal groups behind the scenes.

 

[JoeB131]

I think most pro-life people now think the best shot is simply to get the 'right' to an abortion removed and let each individual state pass its own law, which is what the situation was prior to Roe. A constitutional amendment that strengthens the 10th amendment and specificaly mentions abortion as one of the issues the federal government cannot regulate is probably the best approach at this point in time.

If you consider the demographic effects of abortion on demand and it is apparent that this is not a harmless issue for our nation.

But there were no more Abortions going on after Roe than there were before Roe. The birth rate did not drop after abortion was legalized. (It did drop about a decade earlier after birth Control was perfected.)

All laws are violated every day. That does not mean they cannot be enforced in the majority of the cases or that they do not keep an even larger problem from developing.

But a law can't be effectively enforced if a large part of the population has contempt for it.

Murder laws are enforceable because no one wants murderers running about in their community. Abortion laws aren't because there will always be people who need abortions. The dirty secret of Roe was that it legalized what was already going on.

Romney's real concerns and values are not fathomable at this point because he says what ever he thinks he needs to to get elected. What Romney should he get into office is most likely going to be the same as what he did in Massachussettes; fake being conservative and promote socially liberal groups behind the scenes.

And from a conservative point of view, wouldn't that be worse than a second term of Obama? Scalia won't retire with Obama picking his replacement, but he might if Romney does, but it's still a liberal.

 

[Steelplate]

Psssst... Bowie.....

Don't vote for him.... simple as that.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I think most pro-life people now think the best shot is simply to get the 'right' to an abortion removed and let each individual state pass its own law, which is what the situation was prior to Roe. A constitutional amendment that strengthens the 10th amendment and specificaly mentions abortion as one of the issues the federal government cannot regulate is probably the best approach at this point in time.

If you consider the demographic effects of abortion on demand and it is apparent that this is not a harmless issue for our nation.

But there were no more Abortions going on after Roe than there were before Roe. The birth rate did not drop after abortion was legalized. (It did drop about a decade earlier after birth Control was perfected.)

Abortion statistics in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Number of abortions in US in 1970: 193,491
Number of abortions in US in 1976: 988,267
Number of abortions in US in 1990: 1,429,247

All laws are violated every day. That does not mean they cannot be enforced in the majority of the cases or that they do not keep an even larger problem from developing.

But a law can't be effectively enforced if a large part of the population has contempt for it.

Sure they can, you just have to pick the more extreme cases and let the rest go.

Murder laws are enforceable because no one wants murderers running about in their community.

Well the anti-death penalty people are OK with the idea that a murderer may eventually end up in someone elses community, as has happened many times.

Abortion laws aren't because there will always be people who need abortions. The dirty secret of Roe was that it legalized what was already going on.

As is the case with all crimes.

Romney's real concerns and values are not fathomable at this point because he says what ever he thinks he needs to to get elected. What Romney should he get into office is most likely going to be the same as what he did in Massachussettes; fake being conservative and promote socially liberal groups behind the scenes.

And from a conservative point of view, wouldn't that be worse than a second term of Obama? Scalia won't retire with Obama picking his replacement, but he might if Romney does, but it's still a liberal.

Yes, it would be worse for conservatives, but most conservatives are sheep and most of the rest are greedy and want to use conservativism to cover their tracks and make them look respectable.

And your point about the Romney record on the judges he picks tends to be very favorable to liberals. He would do another Breyer and who needs that?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Psssst... Bowie.....

Don't vote for him.... simple as that.

Psst,...Plate....I wont.

But thank you for your concern, lol.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortion statistics in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Number of abortions in US in 1970: 193,491
Number of abortions in US in 1976: 988,267
Number of abortions in US in 1990: 1,429,247

If you are going to start here, I'm not sure what to do with you. The figure is "reported to the CDC." Not "how many actually happened." In 1970, only legal abortions in the states where it was legal were reported. By 1976, you probably had more complete reporting.

You also stop at 1990, not admitting that by 2008- the last year we have info on- it had gone down to 825,000.

The more telling figure is the birth rate- which remained pretty constant. There were as many babies being born after Roe as before. Which means women were terminating the unwanted pregnancies at about the same rate all along.

Live Births and Birth Rates, by Year — Infoplease.com

Sure they can, you just have to pick the more extreme cases and let the rest go.

What qualifies as an "extreme case"? And why would that have an effect on the vast majority of abortions, performed first trimester when the fetus is the size of a kidney bean?

Well the anti-death penalty people are OK with the idea that a murderer may eventually end up in someone elses community, as has happened many times.

I was referring specifically to the prosecution and arrest of murderers, not what we do with the ones we let go. People will not hide a murderer. They will hide a woman who had an abortion.


As is the case with all crimes.

Yes, it would be worse for conservatives, but most conservatives are sheep and most of the rest are greedy and want to use conservativism to cover their tracks and make them look respectable.

And your point about the Romney record on the judges he picks tends to be very favorable to liberals. He would do another Breyer and who needs that?

I'd be more concerned if he picked another Souter...

 

[FactFinder]

This is all typical RINO camoflage and fakery.

Report on the pro-life views of Gov. Mitt Romney

THE TOP SIX PROBLEMS: Since Romney's famous pro-life "conversion" in November 2004, note the following -

1. Romney said that he does not favor a federal constitutional amendment banning abortion, but instead favors each state deciding for itself whether to allow abortion or not. (Suppose Lincoln had taken that approach on the slavery issue. )

2. Gov. Romney signed into law a universal health insurance plan that (a) includes increased state-funded abortions, and (b) names Planned Parenthood in the law as an overseer. Romney never challenged any of that.

3. Romney said he would disagree with governmental intervention in the Terri Schiavo forced starvation case, adding "I think it's probably best to leave these kinds of matters in the hands of the courts."

4. Gov. Romney forced Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts to dispense the "morning after" pill.

5. Romney said he does not object to stem cell research using left over human embryos.

6. Although Romney vetoed pro-abortion legislation after his "conversion", it always appeared to be for political effect. The Legislature always overrode the vetoes. We never saw Romney exert any substantial effort to get his vetoes sustained.

I really don't like Romney, but I don't care that much about this.

Frankly, I wish the abortion issue would go away, and stop distorting our politics.

We are never going to have a federal law banning abortion. The Supreme Court will never overturn Roe v. Wade.

Even if these things happened, such a law would be about as effective as the 18th Amendment and the Volsted Act was in banning alcohol sales.

Now, what bothers me about Romney in this is what it says about his character.

He ran to right left on the issue from where he was personally (Mormons take a dim view of Abortion) because it was the only way he could get elected in Massachusetts.

Then he ran to the right on the issue in 2008 because he wanted to fool the Evangelicals into thinking he was one of them.

Think about it.....the country has done nothing but go downhill since then. Spit in God's face then face the consequences. Kill and oppress the innocent you will answer.

 

[JimBowie1958]

If you are going to start here, I'm not sure what to do with you. The figure is "reported to the CDC." Not "how many actually happened." In 1970, only legal abortions in the states where it was legal were reported. By 1976, you probably had more complete reporting.

These are the numbers we do have, and the CDC tried to get an accurate calculation prior to Roe, so supposition that there were more is merely that; supposition.

When things become legal and it is thus safer and less risky to do whatever had been illegal, you get more of that behavior. It is similar to the effect taxation and subizing activites; you get more when you reward and less when you punish via taxes.

To suppose the laws against abortion had no effect, not to mention the social stigma, is being a bit preferential in how one views the available facts.

You also stop at 1990, not admitting that by 2008- the last year we have info on- it had gone down to 825,000.

I did not admit it because I saw no relevance to the point regarding whether or not Roe caused an increase. Since we have seen families with values that tolerate abortion diminish from generation to generation overall, it is no wonder that we are seeing fewer abortions.

The more telling figure is the birth rate- which remained pretty constant. There were as many babies being born after Roe as before. Which means women were terminating the unwanted pregnancies at about the same rate all along.

Not necesarily. Some get abortions simply to have more convenience in regard to the age gaps of their children, and the baby boomers should have caused a much larger bump in the demographic rates had they continued having children at the same ratio as earlier generations but they did not for the most part.

Sure they can, you just have to pick the more extreme cases and let the rest go.

What qualifies as an "extreme case"? And why would that have an effect on the vast majority of abortions, performed first trimester when the fetus is the size of a kidney bean?

By extreme I am refering to the general approach to enforcing popular crimes. For example in many states it is illegal to gamble, but said states wont go after people playing poker among friends at the dining room table for a few dollars which is common.

In regard to abortion specifically, third trimester is extreme, obviously, and I would say antyhing after the 4th month is showing no regard to the fact that the unborn child has a functioning nervous system.

Well the anti-death penalty people are OK with the idea that a murderer may eventually end up in someone elses community, as has happened many times.

I was referring specifically to the prosecution and arrest of murderers, not what we do with the ones we let go. People will not hide a murderer. They will hide a woman who had an abortion.

People do hide murderers, like the mamas whose baby boy could never have done that killing.

Read up on the history of violent criminals and you will see it is quite common for people to hide family members acused of murder.

 

[JoeB131]

Think about it.....the country has done nothing but go downhill since then. Spit in God's face then face the consequences. Kill and oppress the innocent you will answer.

There is no God. Never was a God. Never will be a God.

There are no sky pixies up there listening to your prays or counting how many times you jerk off.

And people will have abortions whether they are legal or not.

 

[JoeB131]

Jim, not going to waste time answering all your points, so I'll make this simple.

Illegalizing abortion will not end abortion, just drive it underground, which is where it was before it was legalized. Even police states like Nazi Germany couldn't prevent abortions from happening.

Prostitution is illegal, but I could find a prostitute pretty easily if I wanted one. Pot is illegal, but I could score a joint if I really wanted one. What makes you think that abortions will be any harder to get after they are outlawed? Especially since you can induce them with a pill now.

 

[paulitician]

I consider myself 'Pro-Life' but i oppose the Government deciding it for Citizens. So i guess that makes me also 'Pro-Choice.' However,i do support certain restrictions on Abortion. There is a time-frame when Abortion is acceptable or becomes unacceptable. Those Laws are reasonable. So overall i oppose Government banning Abortion but i have to also respect States' Rights in deciding the legality or illegality of it. Abortion is a complicated issue. I agree with Romney on this one for the most part.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I consider myself 'Pro-Life' but i oppose the Government deciding it for Citizens. So i guess that makes me also 'Pro-Choice.' However,i do support certain restrictions on Abortion. There is a time-frame when Abortion is acceptable or becomes unacceptable. Those Laws are reasonable. So overall i oppose Government banning Abortion but i have to also respect States' Rights in deciding the legality or illegality of it. Abortion is a complicated issue. I agree with Romney on this one for the most part.

People like Pauli want you to think that abortion is a "complicated issue". It's not. They're just cowards.

The abortion issue is simple.

Let women think for themselves.

 

[paulitician]

I consider myself 'Pro-Life' but i oppose the Government deciding it for Citizens. So i guess that makes me also 'Pro-Choice.' However,i do support certain restrictions on Abortion. There is a time-frame when Abortion is acceptable or becomes unacceptable. Those Laws are reasonable. So overall i oppose Government banning Abortion but i have to also respect States' Rights in deciding the legality or illegality of it. Abortion is a complicated issue. I agree with Romney on this one for the most part.

People like Pauli want you to think that abortion is a "complicated issue". It's not. They're just cowards.

The abortion issue is simple.

Let women think for themselves.

No,it really is more complicated than that. Laws restricting when it's no longer acceptable to abort a baby are reasonable. Late-Term Abortions are an ugly abomination. And States do have the right to decide the Abortion issue themselves. Personally,i would like to see Government stay out of the issue except in circumstances where brutal Late-Term Abortions are performed. So i can understand where Romney is coming from on this issue. It is possible to be both 'Pro-Life' and 'Pro-Choice.'

 

[DontBeStupid]

I consider myself 'Pro-Life' but i oppose the Government deciding it for Citizens. So i guess that makes me also 'Pro-Choice.' However,i do support certain restrictions on Abortion. There is a time-frame when Abortion is acceptable or becomes unacceptable. Those Laws are reasonable. So overall i oppose Government banning Abortion but i have to also respect States' Rights in deciding the legality or illegality of it. Abortion is a complicated issue. I agree with Romney on this one for the most part.

People like Pauli want you to think that abortion is a "complicated issue". It's not. They're just cowards.

The abortion issue is simple.

Let women think for themselves.

No,it really is more complicated than that. Laws restricting when it's no longer acceptable to abort a baby are reasonable. Late-Term Abortions are an ugly abomination. And States do have the right to decide the Abortion issue themselves. Personally,i would like to see Government stay out of the issue except in circumstances where brutal Late-Term Abortions are performed. So i can understand where Romney is coming from on this issue. It is possible to be both 'Pro-Life' and 'Pro-Choice.'

For those reading at home, you will notice Pauli makes this claim and then does not back it up in any way. He doesn't even attempt to.

That's because he knows it's not true.

 

[paulitician]

People like Pauli want you to think that abortion is a "complicated issue". It's not. They're just cowards.

The abortion issue is simple.

Let women think for themselves.

No,it really is more complicated than that. Laws restricting when it's no longer acceptable to abort a baby are reasonable. Late-Term Abortions are an ugly abomination. And States do have the right to decide the Abortion issue themselves. Personally,i would like to see Government stay out of the issue except in circumstances where brutal Late-Term Abortions are performed. So i can understand where Romney is coming from on this issue. It is possible to be both 'Pro-Life' and 'Pro-Choice.'

For those reading at home, you will notice Pauli makes this claim and then does not back it up in any way. He doesn't even attempt to.

That's because he knows it's not true.

What's not true?

 

[DontBeStupid]

No,it really is more complicated than that. Laws restricting when it's no longer acceptable to abort a baby are reasonable. Late-Term Abortions are an ugly abomination. And States do have the right to decide the Abortion issue themselves. Personally,i would like to see Government stay out of the issue except in circumstances where brutal Late-Term Abortions are performed. So i can understand where Romney is coming from on this issue. It is possible to be both 'Pro-Life' and 'Pro-Choice.'

For those reading at home, you will notice Pauli makes this claim and then does not back it up in any way. He doesn't even attempt to.

That's because he knows it's not true.

What's not true?

What you just wrote. Two posts ago. That I bolded.

"States do have the right to decide the Abortion issue themselves."

Unbelievable.

 

[paulitician]

For those reading at home, you will notice Pauli makes this claim and then does not back it up in any way. He doesn't even attempt to.

That's because he knows it's not true.

What's not true?

What you just wrote. Two posts ago. That I bolded.

"States do have the right to decide the Abortion issue themselves."

Unbelievable.

That's why i said the Abortion issue is not so simple. States do have the right to decide the issue for themselves. That's my belief anyway. However,i don't like the Government deciding the issue for Citizens. But some Laws restricting brutal Late-Term Abortions seem reasonable to me. But that's just my opinion. You can be both 'Pro-Life' and 'Pro-Choice.' It's not an all or nothing issue.