Right to Migrant Labor

[priceless]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

 

[sameech]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

The market will take care of it. The reason we have illegal immigration now is a market dynamic, not because our laws are too lax. We will have my migrant labor in the future, legal or otherwise, because the market demands relative low wage labor and there are people for whom our low wage is their good wage.

On a side note, whatever we pay in "costs" for immigrant labor, we make up for in benefits in the form of lower prices in the areas in which their is significant immigrant labor--like agricultural products.

 

[priceless]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

The market will take care of it. The reason we have illegal immigration now is a market dynamic, not because our laws are too lax. We will have my migrant labor in the future, legal or otherwise, because the market demands relative low wage labor and there are people for whom our low wage is their good wage.

On a side note, whatever we pay in "costs" for immigrant labor, we make up for in benefits in the form of lower prices in the areas in which their is significant immigrant labor--like agricultural products.

So would you consider it humane or inhumane if a socialist government would create a draft and bus US citizens to farms where migrant labor is needed instead of allowing non-citizen migrants to take the jobs?

Or would you say that non-citizen migrants should be allowed to take the jobs for wages that are low to citizens but reasonable 'by Mexican standards' and that unemployed citizens should be provided with food subsidized by the savings generated from the use of cheap non-citizen labor?

 

[Unkotare]

False choice, ridiculous premise, troll thread.

 

[sameech]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

The market will take care of it. The reason we have illegal immigration now is a market dynamic, not because our laws are too lax. We will have my migrant labor in the future, legal or otherwise, because the market demands relative low wage labor and there are people for whom our low wage is their good wage.

On a side note, whatever we pay in "costs" for immigrant labor, we make up for in benefits in the form of lower prices in the areas in which their is significant immigrant labor--like agricultural products.

So would you consider it humane or inhumane if a socialist government would create a draft and bus US citizens to farms where migrant labor is needed instead of allowing non-citizen migrants to take the jobs?

Or would you say that non-citizen migrants should be allowed to take the jobs for wages that are low to citizens but reasonable 'by Mexican standards' and that unemployed citizens should be provided with food subsidized by the savings generated from the use of cheap non-citizen labor?

I think that it would be better if people grew their own food instead of relying on a socialist government or corporate America to provide it to them. Of the false choice presented, it would be better for immigrants to provide the labor if necessary but it is not necessary that the government subsidize the people who refuse to work for low wages instead of no wages.

 

[MaryL]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

I don't understand where you are going this...Commies are bad, so let's exploit poor Mexicans instead? Or, alternatively, socialism in the form of democratic immigration/social reforms (stretching the point a little to fit the topic) could lead to American forced labor camps? Really, intriguing point, if that is what you are alluding to. But your point is unclear to me.

 

[Pennywise]

False choice, ridiculous premise, troll thread.

Yes, now that you're here.

The OP point is actually too nuanced for someone of your simian intellect. Try reading it again, or find some more scat porn to keep you busy.

 

[MaryL]

I think you are referring to commercialism, not communism. OK, I have grown a few tomatoes. squashes, pumpkins, peppers on the little land I have here in the city. If I had to live on that, I would have starved to death. I think most if not all of us rely on large agriculture to provide foodstuffs to us, and that includes foods harvested by the hands of hard working people from Mexico, legal or not. I have to say, that's food for thought here on the immigration board. Perhaps, if it wasn't for all those illegals, we might have starved to death.

 

[Pennywise]

I think you are referring to commercialism, not communism. OK, I have grown a few tomatoes. squashes, pumpkins, peppers on the little land I have here in the city. If I had to live on that, I would have starved to death. I think most if not all of us rely on large agriculture to provide foodstuffs to us, and that includes foods harvested by the hands of hard working people from Mexico, legal or not. I have to say, that's food for thought here on the immigration board. Perhaps, if it wasn't for all those illegals, we might have starved to death.

You just fell right into the trap.

 

[Unkotare]

False choice, ridiculous premise, troll thread.

Yes, now that you're here.

The OP point is actually too nuanced for someone of your simian intellect.

Maybe it seems "nuanced" to a simpleton like you...

 

[Pennywise]

False choice, ridiculous premise, troll thread.

Yes, now that you're here.

The OP point is actually too nuanced for someone of your simian intellect.

Maybe it seems "nuanced" to a simpleton like you...

If you understood it, you wouldn't have responded like a fucking moron.

And no, I'm not going to translate it for an arrogant chimp.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, now that you're here.

The OP point is actually too nuanced for someone of your simian intellect.

Maybe it seems "nuanced" to a simpleton like you...

If you understood it...

There is nothing difficult to understand about it for anyone but a drooling moron like you.

 

[Windship]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

The market will take care of it. The reason we have illegal immigration now is a market dynamic, not because our laws are too lax. We will have my migrant labor in the future, legal or otherwise, because the market demands relative low wage labor and there are people for whom our low wage is their good wage.

On a side note, whatever we pay in "costs" for immigrant labor, we make up for in benefits in the form of lower prices in the areas in which their is significant immigrant labor--like agricultural products.

Illeagals build just about all of the buildings here in cali. Thats why houses and buildings are soooooooo cheap here. Yeah...the market will take care of everything...sure. Its doing a great job of it.

 

[sameech]

Illeagals build just about all of the buildings here in cali. Thats why houses and buildings are soooooooo cheap here. Yeah...the market will take care of everything...sure. Its doing a great job of it.

Labor costs isn't the reason housing costs so much in California--it is that you pay entry level civil servants a billion dollars a year, thereby driving your land costs through the roof. You could hire an army for what your sun-baked brains will pay for a perfectly usable house just to tear down to build a newer one on the same lot.

 

[Windship]

I replaced the power steering pump on my vehicle. It was rebuilt in mexico. The price was cheaper but I did the job twice because the units were faulty. The third time was a charm. Id rather have paid twice for the same unit and only had to do the job once. The same with those cheap goods from china. My pants come apart and my shoes last 3 months but they are cheaper.

 

[Windship]

Illeagals build just about all of the buildings here in cali. Thats why houses and buildings are soooooooo cheap here. Yeah...the market will take care of everything...sure. Its doing a great job of it.

Labor costs isn't the reason housing costs so much in California--it is that you pay entry level civil servants a billion dollars a year, thereby driving your land costs through the roof. You could hire an army for what your sun-baked brains will pay for a perfectly usable house just to tear down to build a newer one on the same lot.

Really. Thats why? Please explain. How does gov employees pay make a 1500sq ft.house on the coast go for 2 milusd

 

[sameech]

Illeagals build just about all of the buildings here in cali. Thats why houses and buildings are soooooooo cheap here. Yeah...the market will take care of everything...sure. Its doing a great job of it.

Labor costs isn't the reason housing costs so much in California--it is that you pay entry level civil servants a billion dollars a year, thereby driving your land costs through the roof. You could hire an army for what your sun-baked brains will pay for a perfectly usable house just to tear down to build a newer one on the same lot.

Really. Thats why? Please explain. How does gov employees pay make a 1500sq ft.house on the coast go for 2 milusd

It is a metaphor for supply and demand. If you give people too much money, the demand goes up for limited supply, and the prices respond accordingly. It is the same reason people from New York and New Jersey retire to my area by the busload--for what they pay for a 3 bedroom home there will buy you a mad crib in my area because incomes are lower, so existing housing is lower. I could buy my house in a year for what the rent would cost in a year on the same number of square feet in an apartment in New York City

 

[Windship]

Labor costs isn't the reason housing costs so much in California--it is that you pay entry level civil servants a billion dollars a year, thereby driving your land costs through the roof. You could hire an army for what your sun-baked brains will pay for a perfectly usable house just to tear down to build a newer one on the same lot.

Really. Thats why? Please explain. How does gov employees pay make a 1500sq ft.house on the coast go for 2 milusd

It is a metaphor for supply and demand. If you give people too much money, the demand goes up for limited supply, and the prices respond accordingly. It is the same reason people from New York and New Jersey retire to my area by the busload--for what they pay for a 3 bedroom home there will buy you a mad crib in my area because incomes are lower, so existing housing is lower. I could buy my house in a year for what the rent would cost in a year on the same number of square feet in an apartment in New York City

Supply and demand...correct. Ppl ,for some reason, flock to cali, or used to and thats what drives the price of homes up. They want sunshine and no rain. More ppl want to live on the coast so the homes on the coast are priced much higher.

 

[priceless]

What if socialism progresses to the point that US citizens are drafted to perform farm labor in migrant labor camps? Is it humane to expect citizens of advanced capitalist economies like the US to perform farm labor or should US citizens be entitled to having this labor performed for them by non-citizen migrants?

I don't understand where you are going this...Commies are bad, so let's exploit poor Mexicans instead? Or, alternatively, socialism in the form of democratic immigration/social reforms (stretching the point a little to fit the topic) could lead to American forced labor camps? Really, intriguing point, if that is what you are alluding to. But your point is unclear to me.

It's just a paradox that popular opinion can be turned against non-citizen migrant labor but at the same time against the use of government to draft people into doing the work that would otherwise be done by non-citizen migrants.

Assuming the market requires SOME people to perform the labor, it either has to generate enough incentive or desperation within the domestic economy for people to volunteer for this work OR it has to generate enough incentive or desperation for people to migrate between economic regions with different costs of living, etc.

Personally, it seems too much like slavery to me to have a citizenry who are protected against performing their own agricultural labor but this seems to be accepted as a somewhat unfortunate status quo, much as slavery was in the time before the civil war.

Still, I would find it ironic if people would support official protections against citizens performing their own farm labor, just as it would have seemed strange if official protections had been passed after the civil war to protect formerly free citizens against having to perform labor formerly delegated to slaves.

It's not a troll thread. Just a way of exploring the issue. Thanks to everyone who put some thought into it.

 

[Unkotare]

It's just a paradox that popular opinion can be turned against non-citizen migrant labor but at the same time against the use of government to draft people into doing the work that would otherwise be done by non-citizen migrants.

There is no "paradox" involved at all. There is no necessary relationship between the two bad ideas.