Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[Fraulein Hilda]

Bingo. YES, we are, through hidden increases in costs. If you are hospitalized, why do you think you pay $12 for one aspirin?

Because a third-party payer model gives the illusion that the aspirin is "free".

Really aren't up on your basic economic models...Are you??

And that won't change if the payor is government. Good.

 

[HUGGY]

I don't care if health care is equitable. If I can afford more and am willing to pay for it, I don't want government telling me I can't have it.

So who is saying you can't?

 

[MaggieMae]

So you're saying government will only accellerate those closings. Then it's not a scare tactic. You proved my point.

Medicare and Medicaid shift costs to private and third party payers. Government will force providers to accept lower reimbursement with no means of recovering that elsewhere.

Many will quit.

Quit? And go where? WalMart?

Get out altogether. Retire early. Be forced out by government decisions closing "unnecessary" facilities.

There are already plenty of physicians and nurses who, after getting their degrees, realize that they can do much better financially in the corporate world. Doctors have given up practicing medicine in favor of "consulting" for Wall Street biggies. Any doctor worth his weight and who takes his oath seriously isn't going to whine like you over the possibility that he can't afford a second yacht.

Again, however, what "facilities" are you talking about? I don't even know of any medical practice in my medium-sized city that has gone out of business because their Medicare/caid allotments were cut. They always have the option of simply not taking those <gasp> welfare patients. Any new plan (AND THERE WILL BE ONE), will not dictate who a doctor's patients may be.

 

[auditor0007]

That said, anything that gets passed will surely be better than what exists now.

Huh...WHA??

We need to do something...This is something, therefore we must do it???

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Of course it does. The way it's going now, the average middle-class American cannot afford private health insurance policies, and therefore many go without. It's a fucking no-brainer, fool. Try reading a few of the horror stories posted right in this thread, in particular the one by American Horse. Will you only become concerned over the way insurance companies are ripping off the American people when it is YOU who gets sick and dies because YOU can't afford proper care?

I don't fault the insurance companies completely. They are in business to make money. The real question we should ask is if it wise to make healthcare completely for profit. When we look at the many countries with universal healthcare, they have problems, but they also pay half of what we pay. They could have much better care with their current systems if they just payed a little more. They could do this and still pay much less than we currently pay.

The bottom line is that once the majority of Americans can no longer afford insurance, everything will change, and then the change will be drastic. This current system will not survive. The only question is how long it will take before it is changed, and whether or not we bankrupt this entire country first, before any changes are made.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

The only question is how long it will take before it is changed, and whether or not we bankrupt this entire country first, before any changes are made.

Then let it crash. Government is not going to fix it.

 

[HUGGY]

I think "dude" and the good german are paid infiltrators from the health care denying industry.

Piss on you both.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Quit? And go where? WalMart?

Get out altogether. Retire early. Be forced out by government decisions closing "unnecessary" facilities.

There are already plenty of physicians and nurses who, after getting their degrees, realize that they can do much better financially in the corporate world. Doctors have given up practicing medicine in favor of "consulting" for Wall Street biggies. Any doctor worth his weight and who takes his oath seriously isn't going to whine like you over the possibility that he can't afford a second yacht.

Again, however, what "facilities" are you talking about? I don't even know of any medical practice in my medium-sized city that has gone out of business because their Medicare/caid allotments were cut. They always have the option of simply not taking those <gasp> welfare patients. Any new plan (AND THERE WILL BE ONE), will not dictate who a doctor's patients may be.

Barack Obama will close health care facilities with no less hesitation than he has closed automobile dealerships.

He will do it in the name of cost cutting and all the drones will praise him for it.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

I think "dude" and the good german are paid infiltrators from the health care denying industry.

Piss on you both.

Only government can deny people access to health care.

You can buy as much as you want right now.

Get it while you can.

 

[auditor0007]

Where did I say it was "better"?? It is more equitable and symptoms are treated before they develop into catastrophic illnesses. It ain't rocket science.

Yes....Everyone gets an equitably crappy product.

Who is suggesting that those able to afford the "best" health care will not be able to do so in the future?

To many americans a "crappy" product would be better than no product at all which is what about 50 million are getting now.

Even those who are insured end up getting killed with deductibles and copayments leading to bankruptcy in many cases. And when someone becomes so sick that they can no longer work, they lose their health insurance. Before Medicaid will kick in, they must go through their entire savings and become basically indigent.

Half of Bankruptcy Due to Medical Bills -- U.S. Study

 

[auditor0007]

I don't care if health care is equitable. If I can afford more and am willing to pay for it, I don't want government telling me I can't have it.

So why not support a two tiered system where everyone has a guarantee to decent healthcare, and allow those who can afford it the premium package where you can have every extra test and comfort afforded?

The bottom line is that those who would receive guaranteed care must also pay for it, or at least pay a reasonable portion for that care. This will happen under the potential plan currently being discussed. The worst thing about our current system is that you can get healthcare if you are extremely poor. However, if you are a middle class worker, in many situations you can be excluded from receiving the care you need.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Do Americans need to accept "hopeless diagnoses" like Europeans do?

 

[MaggieMae]

Well I hope whoever's got your medical expenses covered pays for anger management. And btw, we live in a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

Oh, puuullleeeease!! ...Save your amateurish mind reading exercises for someone else.

And, BTW, nowhere in Article 4, Section 4 can be found the word "democratic".

Try again......No.....Don't.

If you don't like how I reply to your nonsense, then put me on ignore. It's interesting that someone who appears to be such a greedy, me-first-fuck-you holier-than-thou person has an avatar where you're sucking up the booze. Or is that photo some famous "hero" of yours...

A REPUBLIC is a state or country that is not led by a hereditary monarch, in which the people (or at least a part of its people) have an impact on its government. The word 'republic' is derived from the Latin res publica which can be translated as "public thing".

A DEMOCRACY is a society in which all adults (the people) have easily accessible, meaningful, and effective ways:

--to participate in the decision-making processes of every organization that makes decisions or takes actions that affect them, and;

--to hold other individuals, and those in these organizations who are responsible for making decisions and taking actions, fully accountable if their decisions or actions violate fundamental human rights, or are dishonest, unethical, unfair, secretive, inefficient, unrepresentative, unresponsive or irresponsible, so that all organizations in the society are citizen-owned, citizen-controlled, and citizen-driven, and all individuals and organizations are held accountable for wrongdoing.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

I don't care if health care is equitable. If I can afford more and am willing to pay for it, I don't want government telling me I can't have it.

So why not support a two tiered system where everyone has a guarantee to decent healthcare, and allow those who can afford it the premium package where you can have every extra test and comfort afforded?

The bottom line is that those who would receive guaranteed care must also pay for it, or at least pay a reasonable portion for that care. This will happen under the potential plan currently being discussed. The worst thing about our current system is that you can get healthcare if you are extremely poor. However, if you are a middle class worker, in many situations you can be excluded from receiving the care you need.

There won't be a two tiered system. Liberals won't stand for that. It's not "fair."

This is not about taking care of a minority of uninsured, it's about controlling every American's healthcare decisions.

 

[MaggieMae]

Except, you are free to buy any health care you want now.

A government rationed system does not let you do that.

Some people can buy any healthcare they want.

It does not make sense to fuck up the best system in the world just to insure a few million uninsured. Drag everyone else down. Give everyone the same coverage.

You just confirmed why the "conservative" party is part of the problem, not the solution. ME ME ME ME ME ME. I got mine, so fuck you. But then perhaps you're not really a true American, Frau. If not, then your comment is understandable.

 

[jillian]

If the republicans had any plan for health care other than continuing the status quo, they would have implemented it when 7 million people lost their health coverage during bush's eight years.

And they certainly wouldn't have prohibited medicare/medicaid from negotiating price with the pharmaceutical companies so our people get price-gouged while people overseas get our medicines on the cheap.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Some people can buy any healthcare they want.

It does not make sense to fuck up the best system in the world just to insure a few million uninsured. Drag everyone else down. Give everyone the same coverage.

You just confirmed why the "conservative" party is part of the problem, not the solution. ME ME ME ME ME ME. I got mine, so fuck you. But then perhaps you're not really a true American, Frau. If not, then your comment is understandable.

People who think the government will give them good healthcare are being lied to. People who think government will control the cost of healthcare without rationing are being lied to.

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for your healthcare?

 

[HUGGY]

I think "dude" and the good german are paid infiltrators from the health care denying industry.

Piss on you both.

Only government can deny people access to health care.

You can buy as much as you want right now.

Get it while you can.

You are a knowingly lying sack of steaming liquid shit.

 

[Oddball]

If you don't like how I reply to your nonsense, then put me on ignore. It's interesting that someone who appears to be such a greedy, me-first-fuck-you holier-than-thou person...

See: Freudian projection. Basic Human Psychology 1: Neurosis, Projection and Freudian Projection

A REPUBLIC is a state or country that is not led by a hereditary monarch, in which the people (or at least a part of its people) have an impact on its government. The word 'republic' is derived from the Latin res publica which can be translated as "public thing".

A DEMOCRACY is a society in which all adults (the people) have easily accessible, meaningful, and effective ways:

--to participate in the decision-making processes of every organization that makes decisions or takes actions that affect them, and;

--to hold other individuals, and those in these organizations who are responsible for making decisions and taking actions, fully accountable if their decisions or actions violate fundamental human rights, or are dishonest, unethical, unfair, secretive, inefficient, unrepresentative, unresponsive or irresponsible, so that all organizations in the society are citizen-owned, citizen-controlled, and citizen-driven, and all individuals and organizations are held accountable for wrongdoing. [/I]

All of which oh-so conveniently, and not very cleverly, avoids Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution, and the writings of the framers of that document, both Federalist and Anti-federalist.

We DO NOT live in a DEMOCRACY!

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Government rigged the mortgage market in the name of making housing "affordable" and fucked that up badly. Why will government rigging the healthcare market be any different?

 

[MaggieMae]

It does not make sense to fuck up the best system in the world just to insure a few million uninsured. Drag everyone else down. Give everyone the same coverage.

the "best" health care system in the world?

What criteria are you using to define "best"?

The one everyone in the world comes to if they can.

Go look at the airport in Rochester, MN and see who comes to Mayo when their own country's health care is inadequate.

Sure people come from all over the world to go to the Mayo, also the excellent cancer facilities in Houston, but on the other hand, there are Americans who pay the money up front to travel to places like India for surgery that would cost three times less than what it does here. You cannot make blanket assessments of which "treatment" is best, because that obviously varies from case to case. Nobody is denying we have excellent health CARE. It's paying for it that is the problem. Why is that F.A.C.T so difficult to comprehend?