Debate Now Republican candidates discussion, Conservative/libertarian/tea party only

[Shrimpbox]

First let me say Carly should have been on the stage. After that lets admit that all the candidates upped,their game. Trump isn't going to let people die in the streets, every time he shows he has a heart he does good. He did not,do,himself any damage. Cruz didn't look near as extreme or as strident and as such became more likable. Everyone says Rubio was owned by Christie, I think he got hit hard and was not prepared as he should,of been, but I don't feel it was a fatal blow. I think Christies performance will be a wash because as many people will be turned off as turned on by his persona. Kasich did really good as he spoke of what he would do in the first hundred days, but that may be subject to further scrutiny. He says he has the best ground game ever seen in New Hampshire, we shall see. I guess bush also did better but I just don't see how he ever gets over the hump. Not all three governors can be the comeback kid.

I would say that if anything the race is more wide open. We may lose one or two after the granite state but I don't think there will be any final conclusions.

 

[Foxfyre]

Santorum of course suspended his campaign after Iowa. I agree Carly should have been on the stage and if they let her on, they also had to let Gilmore on. ABC followed the usual media trend of 'let's you and him fight' instead of more honorably asking the candidate to defend the positions they have taken or rebut accusations launched against them while leaving personalities out of it. I guess it is too much to ask the media to give us an honest debate.

The media is gleefully exploiting Cruz's alleged dirty trick against Carson and that may just be a media flurry for a few days and then gone. Or it may gain enough legs to turn some folks off Cruz. Too early to say. Rubio's three-times-is-a-foul repetitious memorized speech that Christi exploited is also being very much discussed by the media. It reinforces my perception of Rubio all along that he is too scripted and not from the heart, but again it is too early to say whether that will hurt him. It took a few months for the internet to stop showing that awkward clip of him reaching for that water bottle when he gave the GOP rebuttal to a SOTU speech. The media can be really cruel in things like that.

Trump didn't hurt himself and didn't help himself I think. Bush was the most animated I have ever seen him and he did well, but I fear it is too little too late.

The thing I am personally exploring in my own heart is whether to go with Thomas Sowell's counsel to put a governor into the White House instead of another charismatic person who has zero experience in governing or leading anything.

 

[9aces]

I have less problem with someone who hasn't been in government, than the example of Barrack Hussein Obama, who had never had a single accomplishment worthy of mention in his entire life.

While Trump is not what I'd call a great choice, he does come equipped with a lifetime of experience in the business area. He's had success, and failure so he knows what both are like.

Carson has an extremely impressive record of accomplishment. And he's run the business side of the equation also. Problem solving on the fly experience and the iron will to make what are literally life or death decisions on the spot is invaluable.

Whether you like Fiorina or not, she made tough choices that looking back appear to be very solid decisions that put HP on good footing to go forward. Plus she's a woman who's played a men's game on the highest level. Not something to ignore.

All 3 of those are used to making decisions, and making those decisions stand up. They're not governors, and I'd take any of the 3 over Kasich, Bush or Christie.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have less problem with someone who hasn't been in government, than the example of Barrack Hussein Obama, who had never had a single accomplishment worthy of mention in his entire life.

While Trump is not what I'd call a great choice, he does come equipped with a lifetime of experience in the business area. He's had success, and failure so he knows what both are like.

Carson has an extremely impressive record of accomplishment. And he's run the business side of the equation also. Problem solving on the fly experience and the iron will to make what are literally life or death decisions on the spot is invaluable.

Whether you like Fiorina or not, she made tough choices that looking back appear to be very solid decisions that put HP on good footing to go forward. Plus she's a woman who's played a men's game on the highest level. Not something to ignore.

All 3 of those are used to making decisions, and making those decisions stand up. They're not governors, and I'd take any of the 3 over Kasich, Bush or Christie.

Have you been reading the Thomas Sowell essays re Trump? I painfully remember how he so desperately tried to warn us about Obama back in 2008 with essay after essay raising the red flags that were there. He has been doing the same thing with Trump. And I am inclined to think we should at least be paying attention this time whether or not we agree with Sowell.

 

[9aces]

I have less problem with someone who hasn't been in government, than the example of Barrack Hussein Obama, who had never had a single accomplishment worthy of mention in his entire life.

While Trump is not what I'd call a great choice, he does come equipped with a lifetime of experience in the business area. He's had success, and failure so he knows what both are like.

Carson has an extremely impressive record of accomplishment. And he's run the business side of the equation also. Problem solving on the fly experience and the iron will to make what are literally life or death decisions on the spot is invaluable.

Whether you like Fiorina or not, she made tough choices that looking back appear to be very solid decisions that put HP on good footing to go forward. Plus she's a woman who's played a men's game on the highest level. Not something to ignore.

All 3 of those are used to making decisions, and making those decisions stand up. They're not governors, and I'd take any of the 3 over Kasich, Bush or Christie.

Have you been reading the Thomas Sowell essays re Trump? I painfully remember how he so desperately tried to warn us about Obama back in 2008 with essay after essay raising the red flags that were there. He has been doing the same thing with Trump. And I am inclined to think we should at least be paying attention this time whether or not we agree with Sowell.

Yes. As I said, in Barrack Hussein Obama, we had a candidate who literally has done nothing useful his entire life. No achievements he could point to, nothing he managed. Quite literally nothing.

As regards Trump, no he does not have "political expertise". However political expertise has gotten us into a helluva mess. Seems the citizen statesman is needed who actually DOES know how things in the real world work. Our politicians haven't lived in that real world in a very long time, and despite my respect for Thomas Sowell....he lives in the world of academia, so I don't know that he's correct in this case. I don't think he's had a tremendous amount of interaction with someone like Trump, or Fiorina, or even Carson for that matter, and Carson would be the most likely due to his lectures on various medical procedures.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have less problem with someone who hasn't been in government, than the example of Barrack Hussein Obama, who had never had a single accomplishment worthy of mention in his entire life.

While Trump is not what I'd call a great choice, he does come equipped with a lifetime of experience in the business area. He's had success, and failure so he knows what both are like.

Carson has an extremely impressive record of accomplishment. And he's run the business side of the equation also. Problem solving on the fly experience and the iron will to make what are literally life or death decisions on the spot is invaluable.

Whether you like Fiorina or not, she made tough choices that looking back appear to be very solid decisions that put HP on good footing to go forward. Plus she's a woman who's played a men's game on the highest level. Not something to ignore.

All 3 of those are used to making decisions, and making those decisions stand up. They're not governors, and I'd take any of the 3 over Kasich, Bush or Christie.

Have you been reading the Thomas Sowell essays re Trump? I painfully remember how he so desperately tried to warn us about Obama back in 2008 with essay after essay raising the red flags that were there. He has been doing the same thing with Trump. And I am inclined to think we should at least be paying attention this time whether or not we agree with Sowell.

Yes. As I said, in Barrack Hussein Obama, we had a candidate who literally has done nothing useful his entire life. No achievements he could point to, nothing he managed. Quite literally nothing.

As regards Trump, no he does not have "political expertise". However political expertise has gotten us into a helluva mess. Seems the citizen statesman is needed who actually DOES know how things in the real world work. Our politicians haven't lived in that real world in a very long time, and despite my respect for Thomas Sowell....he lives in the world of academia, so I don't know that he's correct in this case. I don't think he's had a tremendous amount of interaction with someone like Trump, or Fiorina, or even Carson for that matter, and Carson would be the most likely due to his lectures on various medical procedures.

Well he was in the same boat re Obama and he nailed him. If his assessment had gotten any kind of play among Republicans/conservatives/libertarians, maybe so many of the fence sitters on our side would not have gotten sucked into Obama's lies and crossed over to elect him. Or they wouldn't have stayed home on election day because they couldn't stomach McCain.

You know what bothers me most about Trump? It isn't his political incorrectness--I have loved that. It isn't his tendency to insult others--we need somebody who doesn't meekly submit to insults and personal abuse. And it isn't that I object to some hyperbole about illegals and China and trade, etc--I trust him to choose the right course of action on things like that.

But where is his commitment to the traditional values that have made this country great? Where is his understanding of the Constitution and determination to restore it as the guiding principle for what government should be and what government can do? I've heard that from Cruz, from Santorum, from Carson, from Rubio, and to some degree from most of the others. But I haven't heard it from Trump, and on some issues like imminent domain and what government can do, he scares me.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Where do you go to read these essays fox?

 

[9aces]

Where do you go to read these essays fox?

Sowell?

Thomas     Sowell | Home

He's got a website (see above) and it has his columns, etc on it. Pretty Smart guy.

 

[Foxfyre]

Where do you go to read these essays fox?

Sorry Shrimp. I just now saw this. You can google Thomas Sowell and go directly to his website, or his essays are also listed on a number of websites that routinely run his columns. You have to go all the way back to 2008 to find the series he did on Barack Obama and in the last 30-60 days or so he has done a number of them on Donald Trump.

Oh, I just saw that 9aces posted the link. Just click on COLUMNS on the menu

 

[Foxfyre]

And for those of you who are real wonky types when it comes to these primary elections, here is a great site to track the returns for New Hampshire in real time:

New Hampshire Republican Primary Results - Election 2016 - CBS News

 

[Foxfyre]

So Trump is now terrifying the entire establishment (on both sides of the aisle), Rubio flounders a bit, Cruz is holding strong, Kasich is on the rise. And Kristie is hanging it up today--without winning a single delegate so far and being shut out of the next debate, I'm sure knows the contributions won't be coming in and he's cutting his losses and going home.

The early polls for North Carolina are interesting:
Poll Date Sample RCP averge 1/18 - 2/4
Trump 30.3
Cruz 20.3
Rubio 13.7
Carson 8.0
Bush 4.3
Christie 3.3
Kasich 2.0
Fiorina 2.0

I'm looking forward to the polling data post New Hampshire.

 

[Foxfyre]

So Christie and Fiorina are now the two casualties suspending their campaigns post New Hampshire. Carson is staying in though at least one more time.

But dang it, I can't find any polling data for South Carolina more recent than January 23. No clue how that is shaping up.

 

[Foxfyre]

Just heard that Justice Antonin Scalia died today. What a tragic loss for America and most especially the U.S. Constitution. If ever conservatives need to come together and support the GOP in the Senate, it is now. The Republicans are planning to block any nomination Obama makes on the argument that the next President should be the one to choose.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Everyone has written trumps obituary and he is still kicking, but i think his very personal attacks on George Bush are going to hurt him in SC. I think his actions will lead to the undecided taking a second look at the other candidates. By staying in the race both bush and Carson may be helping trump keep his lead.

 

[Foxfyre]

Everyone has written trumps obituary and he is still kicking, but i think his very personal attacks on George Bush are going to hurt him in SC. I think his actions will lead to the undecided taking a second look at the other candidates. By staying in the race both bush and Carson may be helping trump keep his lead.

Well so much for that theory Shrimp.

And Jeb is the latest and only casualty of South Carolina as he suspends his campaign.

There are mixed emotions re Kasich staying in--nobody thinks he can win but he could possibly stop Trump in Ohio.

On the Sunday morning political discussions, the pundits now all agree that Trump appears to be an unstoppable force and will likely run the table. They have been so wrong about everything so far though, let's hope they are wrong about that.

And it may just be wishful thinking, but in my heart, I think Rubio will ultimately emerge as the nominee.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Yep, so much for my prophecies. There are really some pissed off people on the republican side. They have had enough and they aren't going to take it anymore. So who the hell can prognosticate anymore. Rubio needs to put out a detailed immigration proposal and get that off his back. Ted may be perceived as an ideologue. My other pr diction that trump will not be,the nominee may be going the way of,the dodo bird too. As long as Hilary gets indicted I will come,out a winner. II will also say if Rubio can't win Florida he is done. I'll probably have to eat crow on that one too. Let's hope Donald doesn't have a Scalia moment.

Let me make two,observations though fox about trump. At no other rallies are they chanting USA, USA, USA. And I have not heard any other politician talk about how smart and educated the voters are. Now they may only be smart if they vote for trump, but still you don't have other candidates making these statements, and you will never hear anyone at a democratic rally yelling USA, USA. Very illuminating.

 

[Foxfyre]

I was listening to a clip of the Rev. Franklin Graham tonight saying that he was going to visit all 50 states and hold meetings--these will generally be huge gatherings--in which he will urge all evangelical Christians to get out and vote and vote their conscience to vote for candidates at state and federal level who will commit to restoring the United States to its traditional values and constitutional principles. He has no faith in the Republican Party or Democratic Party or the Tea Party for that matter to do what is right for the people of America. Perhaps that is why Trump is getting so high a percentage of the evangelical vote? I think I really see him as more of an independent than as a Republican.

These are interesting times.

But I still would feel a whole lot better about Trump if he would say what his criteria for judicial appointment will be--if he says he will do his damndest to appoint constitutional originalists I could almost get excited about him.

 

[Foxfyre]

And the Nevada results are in. Clinton beat Bernie easily so the die may be cast there.

But the Trump train keeps steamrollering over everybody else with Trump earning almost 50% of the Latino and women vote and beating everybody else in every both category - white, black, rich, poor, highly educated, barely educated, you name it.

Nevada Caucus Results
Results auto-refresh in 12 seconds

Feb 23: Nevada Republican Caucus
Donald Trump

46%

(Projected Winner)

34,531


Ted Cruz

21%

16,079



Ben Carson

5%

3,619

John Kasich

4%

2,709

Marco Rubio

24%

17,940

Jeb Bush

0%

64

96% in

Feb 24 2016, 11:11 am ET
Nevada Caucus Results: 2016 Presidential Election - NBC News

 

[Shrimpbox]

Carson is such a decent human being.

Yep, this is a wild ride, and the juices are flowing, and I am loving every minute of it. Ain't we lucky and isn't life grand!

 

[Militants]

Ben Carson commando is justice for him even I trust and him trust he gonna lose and give up to Rubio, Trump, Bush then one of Cruz and Kasich. I belive Kasich or have wrong I am racist how like Rubio also ?!