Rep. Steve King compares workers to commodities like beans and corn

[Quantum Windbag]

''

Exactly.. you don't know what a Corporatist is.... because the word "Communist" is so much easier for you to grasp.

Iron is a naturally occurring element... Unless you don't believe in the periodic table.

You are ignorant as the day is long... that's why you grasp onto popular jargon like Communist, Socialist, etc... and refuse to acknowledge anything that is a little more sophisticated.

Communism and corporatism is the same...

Tell me what the fucking difference is???

One is not "officially" owned by the government or is part of the government????

These "corporations" may be their own entities however Obama is pulling the strings on; GE, American Electric Power, Dupont, Verizon, Boeing, Wells Fargo, FedEx, Honeywell, IBM, Yahoo!, United Technoloties and ExxonMobil.

Um..no.

Communism is in theory, in which a collective (which is not necessarily a government) owns all means of production and provides the populace goods and services on the basis of need.

Corporatism..is a collusion between government and private industry..where industry is privately owned and government provides conditions favorable to private profit..like slave labor..for example.

No it is not.

What you are attempting to define as corporatism is actually fascism, Corporatism is the grouping of people according to interests. Do a modicum of research before you start defining things for idiots that might not be able to think for themselves.

Corporatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oops, I forgot, you don't think for yourself because you are actually a supporter of progressive corporatism.

 

[Political Junky]

Communism and corporatism is the same...

Nope, the very anti-Communist, Mussolini, defined Fascism, his government, as Corporatism.

 

[Sallow]

Communism and corporatism is the same...

Tell me what the fucking difference is???

One is not "officially" owned by the government or is part of the government????

These "corporations" may be their own entities however Obama is pulling the strings on; GE, American Electric Power, Dupont, Verizon, Boeing, Wells Fargo, FedEx, Honeywell, IBM, Yahoo!, United Technoloties and ExxonMobil.

Um..no.

Communism is in theory, in which a collective (which is not necessarily a government) owns all means of production and provides the populace goods and services on the basis of need.

Corporatism..is a collusion between government and private industry..where industry is privately owned and government provides conditions favorable to private profit..like slave labor..for example.

No it is not.

What you are attempting to define as corporatism is actually fascism, Corporatism is the grouping of people according to interests. Do a modicum of research before you start defining things for idiots that might not be able to think for themselves.

Corporatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oops, I forgot, you don't think for yourself because you are actually a supporter of progressive corporatism.

Funny.

 

[Sallow]

I completely agree with everything he said.

The government has no right to force a private business to pay any form a base pay.

It's tyranny and of course, the left supports tyranny over hard work, and earning a bigger check.

This outrage at being called a commodity is fake, and you are all lying when you claim what he said was offensive.

Funny.

Conservatives consider companies..people.

And people commodies.

Gotta love it.

Actually, it works like this.

The government wanted to tax corporations over and above their profits like they do regular businesses. In order to justify this they created the legal fiction that corporations are people. This led to all sorts of sticky problems when due process was applied to corporations. If does, however, allow the government to actually tax corporate profits twice, so I doubt that progressives will sit still for reforming the tax code to eliminate corporate taxes and make corporations non people again. Would you actually support that type of tax reform, or do you think corporations should pay higher taxes?

As for people being a commodity, not a single person has tried to defend that position anywhere in this thread. What we have repeatedly pointed out is that labor is a commodity. Only people that think people are slaves would equate a person's labor with a person. Do you actually think people are slaves?

Erm...yeah.

Not very up on the ol' Constitution..are ya?

 

[Mr.Nick]

''

Exactly.. you don't know what a Corporatist is.... because the word "Communist" is so much easier for you to grasp.

Iron is a naturally occurring element... Unless you don't believe in the periodic table.

You are ignorant as the day is long... that's why you grasp onto popular jargon like Communist, Socialist, etc... and refuse to acknowledge anything that is a little more sophisticated.

Communism and corporatism is the same...

Tell me what the fucking difference is???

One is not "officially" owned by the government or is part of the government????

These "corporations" may be their own entities however Obama is pulling the strings on; GE, American Electric Power, Dupont, Verizon, Boeing, Wells Fargo, FedEx, Honeywell, IBM, Yahoo!, United Technoloties and ExxonMobil.

Um..no.

Communism is in theory, in which a collective (which is not necessarily a government) owns all means of production and provides the populace goods and services on the basis of need.

Corporatism..is a collusion between government and private industry..where industry is privately owned and government provides conditions favorable to private profit..like slave labor..for example.

Of course thats how they brainwash you...

No, under communalism government controls everything - from the soap in your sink to what you will do for the "strong government."

What you going to eat tomorrow??? oh yea its not up to you bitch........................

 

[Sallow]

Communism and corporatism is the same...

Tell me what the fucking difference is???

One is not "officially" owned by the government or is part of the government????

These "corporations" may be their own entities however Obama is pulling the strings on; GE, American Electric Power, Dupont, Verizon, Boeing, Wells Fargo, FedEx, Honeywell, IBM, Yahoo!, United Technoloties and ExxonMobil.

Um..no.

Communism is in theory, in which a collective (which is not necessarily a government) owns all means of production and provides the populace goods and services on the basis of need.

Corporatism..is a collusion between government and private industry..where industry is privately owned and government provides conditions favorable to private profit..like slave labor..for example.

Of course thats how they brainwash you...

No, under communalism government controls everything - from the soap in your sink to what you will do for the "strong government."

What you going to eat tomorrow??? oh yea its not up to you bitch........................

You put up a ludicrous notion that both are the same.

They are not.

I have a big problem with people who play with the meanings of words. This is how we communicate. And accuracy in what exactly terms mean is very important.

 

[The Rabbi]

''

Exactly.. you don't know what a Corporatist is.... because the word "Communist" is so much easier for you to grasp.

Iron is a naturally occurring element... Unless you don't believe in the periodic table.

You are ignorant as the day is long... that's why you grasp onto popular jargon like Communist, Socialist, etc... and refuse to acknowledge anything that is a little more sophisticated.

Communism and corporatism is the same...

Tell me what the fucking difference is???

One is not "officially" owned by the government or is part of the government????

These "corporations" may be their own entities however Obama is pulling the strings on; GE, American Electric Power, Dupont, Verizon, Boeing, Wells Fargo, FedEx, Honeywell, IBM, Yahoo!, United Technoloties and ExxonMobil.

Um..no.

Communism is in theory, in which a collective (which is not necessarily a government) owns all means of production and provides the populace goods and services on the basis of need.

Corporatism..is a collusion between government and private industry..where industry is privately owned and government provides conditions favorable to private profit..like slave labor..for example.

Or standard units of currency. Or standardized weights and measures. Or patents for intellectual property. Or courts of law to adjudicate disputes.
Yeah those are terrible. Better do away with them and let Big Daddy dictate all of it.

 

[taichiliberal]

Here's a thought....let's remove all the gov't rules that garner King's salary and benefits, and let his STATE pay his salary and benefit in order for him and family to function in D.C.

How much you want to bet that Mr. King would fast change his philosophy about being a "commodity".

How would that change his mind? How about we take you out, hang you by a rope from the nearest tree and beat you with a stick until you're unconscious. Maybe that will change your attitude about Medicare!

WTF are you babbling about, bripat? Obviously, you didn't understand what I'm getting at, so let me dumb it down for you:

King says labor is a commodity, so let's see if he likes living by his own words....let's NOT treat him like a public servant for the USA, let his State treat him like a commodity....let his state decide his salary, his benefits in order to vote EXACTLY how the State wants, and ONLY work and get paid when he's on the clock....decide his vacation (if any), how many kids he has, what type and how much medical treatment he needs, etc., etc. because he's a COMMODITY and NOT a human being, or employee or citizen.

Got it now, bunky?

 

[taichiliberal]

I completely agree with everything he said.

The government has no right to force a private business to pay any form a base pay.

It's tyranny and of course, the left supports tyranny over hard work, and earning a bigger check.

This outrage at being called a commodity is fake, and you are all lying when you claim what he said was offensive.

Funny.

Conservatives consider companies..people.

And people commodies.

Gotta love it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I completely agree with everything he said.

The government has no right to force a private business to pay any form a base pay.

It's tyranny and of course, the left supports tyranny over hard work, and earning a bigger check.

This outrage at being called a commodity is fake, and you are all lying when you claim what he said was offensive.

Funny.

Conservatives consider companies..people.

And people commodies.

Gotta love it.

You have heard of the labor market, haven't you?

And WTF are commodies?

 

[snjmom]

Although there are markets for commodities, all markets don't trade in commodities. Most businesses prefer to keep their products from becoming commodities, as they trade on price only, not brand name, perceived value, ie differentiation.

The government wanted to tax corporations over and above their profits like they do regular businesses. In order to justify this they created the legal fiction that corporations are people. This led to all sorts of sticky problems when due process was applied to corporations. If does, however, allow the government to actually tax corporate profits twice, so I doubt that progressives will sit still for reforming the tax code to eliminate corporate taxes and make corporations non people again. Would you actually support that type of tax reform, or do you think corporations should pay higher taxes?

What kind of babbling nonsense is this? The legal fiction that corporations are people allowed them to enter into contracts and purchase property, just like real people, and made a new person to take the fall for any debt or malfeasance.

Taxing profits transferred to shareholders is a small price to pay for the sweet wall against risk that limited liability offers.

Otherwise, why bother incorporating?

 

[The Rabbi]

Although there are markets for commodities, all markets don't trade in commodities.

Is there someone here who speaks Gibberish?

 

[snjmom]

Although there are markets for commodities, all markets don't trade in commodities.

Is there someone here who speaks Gibberish?

Do you view all goods as commodities?

What is a Commodity Market?


1. What is a commodity market?

Commodity market is a place where trading in commodities takes place. It is similar to an Equity market, but instead of buying or selling shares one buys or sells commodities.

2. How old are the commodities market?

The commodities markets are one of the oldest prevailing markets in the human history. In fact derivatives trading started off in commodities with the earliest records being traced back to the 17th century when Rice futures were traded in Japan.

3. What are the different types of commodities that are traded in these markets?

World-over one will find that a market exits for almost all the commodities known to us. These commodities can be broadly classified into the following:
Precious Metals: Gold, Silver, Platinum etc
Other Metals: Nickel, Aluminum, Copper etc
Agro-Based Commodities: Wheat, Corn, Cotton, Oils, Oilseeds, etc.
Soft Commodities: Coffee, Cocoa, Sugar etc
Live-Stock: Live Cattle, Pork Bellies etc
Energy: Crude Oil, Natural Gas, Gasoline etc

4. What are the different segments in the commodities market?

The commodities market exits in two distinct forms namely the Over the Counter (OTC) market and the Exchange based market. Also, as in equities, there exists the spot and the derivatives segment. The spot markets are essentially over the counter markets and the participation is restricted to people who are involved with that commodity say the farmer, processor, wholesaler etc. Majority of the derivative trading takes place through exchange-based markets with standardized contracts, settlements etc.

5. What are the characteristics of Over The Counter (OTC) commodity markets?

The OTC markets are essentially spot markets and are localized for specific commodities. Almost all the trading that takes place in these markets is delivery based. The buyers as well as the sellers have their set of brokers who negotiate the prices for them. This can be illustrated with the help of the following example: A farmer, who produces castor, wishing to sell his produce would go to the local ‘mandi’. There he would contact his broker who would in turn contact the brokers representing the buyers. The buyers in this case would be wholesalers or refiners. In event of a deal taking place the goods and the money would be exchanged directly between the buyer and the seller. Thus it can be seen that this market is restricted to only those people who are directly involved with the commodity.

In addition to the spot transactions, forward deals also take place in these markets. However, they too happen on a delivery basis and hence are restricted to the participants in the spot markets.

6. What are the characteristics of the Exchange Traded markets?

The exchange-traded markets are essentially only derivative markets and are similar to equity derivatives in their working. I.e. everything is standardized and a person can purchase a contract by paying only a percentage of the contract value. A person can also go short on these exchanges. Also, even though there is a provision for delivery most of the contracts are squared-off before expiry and are settled in cash. As a result, one can see an active participation by people who are not associated with the commodity.

7. Do the commodity exchanges facilitate delivery?

The commodity exchanges do facilitate delivery, although it has been observed world-over that only 2% of all the trades result in actual delivery.

8. Why is the percentage of delivery ratio very low in the exchange based commodity derivatives?

Many people who participate in the exchanges are those who are not involved with the physical trading of the commodity. Thus they would not like receiving delivery and would not be in a position to give delivery.

Standardized contracts make an unfeasible proposition for any trader to give or take delivery. E.g. if the size of 1 soya contract is 10MT, a trader cannot buy / sell 15MT of soya through the exchange. Also one cannot avail a credit facility in the exchanges that may be available in the local market. These and a host of other factors deter a person from giving / receiving delivery through the exchanges.

9. What is the size of the commodities market as compared to the equity market?

In the developed markets the volumes on the exchange-based commodity derivates markets are about five times more than that of the equity markets.

See any reference to employment or labor there? Where does entertainment fall? Is a Flags of Our Fathers DVD identical to Swamp Thing and priced accordingly? How about branded foods? Kraft Mac and Cheese the same price as store brand?

If the terminology is gibberish to you, bow gracefully out of the conversation.

 

[Old Rocks]

I don't believe Rabid has ever done anything gracefully in the whole of his life.

 

[taichiliberal]

Funny.

Conservatives consider companies..people.

And people commodies.

Gotta love it.

You have heard of the labor market, haven't you?

And WTF are commodies?

The nominal market in which workers find paying work, employers find willing workers, and wage rates are determined.

Labor markets may be local or national (even international) in their scope and are made up of smaller, interacting labor markets for different qualifications, skills, and geographical locations. They depend on exchange of information between employers and job seekers about wage rates, conditions of employment, level of competition, and job location.


What is labor market? definition and meaning

Commodity
1. A raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee

2. A useful or valuable thing, such as water or time

commodity - Google Search

 

[thereisnospoon]

Rep. Steve King compares workers to commodities like beans and corn | Crooks and Liars [Video]

I really have to laugh here. You libs believe labor should be dispensed in a protected marketplace without regard to costs or prevailing market wage.
The fact that the federal government artificially sets labor rates far and above the prevailing market rate.
For example....I have a friend who owns an electrical company. He won a bid on a job at a military installation. After winning the bid he started work. Here's where the trouble started. A representative informed him that the way the feds saw it, ALL of his workers were deemed journeyman electricians. He argued that they were not. He has two foremen who are licensed. The rest of his guys are helpers. My friend threatened to walk from the job if the government did not accurately classify his people. Eventually the feds relented.
Look, labor IS a commodity. That's a fact. Any business is most likely to look for the best deal on labor. That is, to find the best people who will do the best job for the most value to the business.
The first priority of business is to turn a profit for the owners and/or the investors.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Because you are too stupid to know just how stupid it was the first time,

Capital is a result of labor, and is used by labor to assist it in further production. Labor is the active and initial force, and labor is therefore the employer of capital.
Henry George

and pray tell that does that disqualify the op? economics is based on the management scarcity, labor is no more or less a force employed and /or manipulated by scarcity.

capital may be created by labor, capital is also created by say, soybeans.... labor can become scarce, so can soybeans, the correlation is same, labor becomes scarce via better production methodology, education, loss of skills, or lack of such in some certain econ. or geographical climates.

You Marx et al wish like the Clayton act wish to argue so as to disconnect the economics which commands the result of the manipulation of scarcity to find a political platform, ( as Lincoln did) from which to make the model of economic mgt. somehow unfair, greedy and or harmfully manipulative. good luck on that....

Labor in this country is independent and proud. It has not to ask the patronage of capital, but capital solicits the aid of labor.
Daniel Webster

Hey genius, tell me, if there were no businesses for which labor could perform, for what purpose would labor exist?
Bottom line. No business, no need for labor. Without business there are no jobs.
Simple example. I own a business. I have one employee. My business suffers a downturn in which my revenues are so low I must let me employee go. No business. No job.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Labor is not a commodity. Labor is a factor of production.

And King is an utter tool.

Wrong....And here's why....I own a factory. I have 30 employees running 15 machines to make my product.
A salesman who sells machines for my industry offers to sell me new machines that will get my product out faster with better quality and at a lower cost. The machines need one person to run two of them at a time with ease and less stress to the people running them. They are modern and have fewer moving parts. I tell the salesman he has a deal....Now my factory only needs 15 workers and my output is increased by 33%....
Now, since I need fewer people I let half of those 30 people go.
In your world I must keep those people on my payroll because you say labor is a factor of production? I just showed you this is not true...
What say you?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Obviously, rightists don't understand economics if they call an input of production one of the consumer goods of production, a commodity.

Lady you don't have a clue.
Steel is an input in many products. And it is a commodity. The two are not mutually exclusive. As for the rest of the statement, when someone gets a translator from Gibberish I can respond better.

Steel is not an input. Steel is a raw material when used in the manufacturing of products that contain steel. Steel is a commodity. Please go back to economics class.

Steel is not a raw material. Steel must be manufactured.
Steel is a commodity along with it's components which are used to create steel.
You keep referring to labor in terms of production.
In manufacturing I can assure you that is not the case. For every manufacturing facility that modernizes it becomes less dependent on labor. In many modern factories, most of the work is automated. Large plants are staffed by very few people because the machines do the work.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A commodity is something sold by price. Labor is exactly that. It doesn't matter whether the person running a machine is a PhD in Physics or a high school grad, assuming they are equally competent at the task. The determining factor for who gets the job is the price of labor, i.e. wage.

Without this understanding it is no wonder Lefties cannot grasp basic concepts.

A good or a service is something sold by price. A commodity is something that has reached the equilibrium point to where the products are so identical as to make not difference who the producer is and trades strictly on price, as quality and services are identical.

Right there, labor is not a commodity as quality and service are rarely identical. Labor is a highly differentiated market. What you are talking about is the wage paid for a particular job. Which is again, highly differentiated across markets. Consider the fast-food worker. In my city the fast-food worker will begin at minimum wage in the inner-city and minimum-wage plus 2-3 if hired in the outer suburbs. If labor were a commodity, their wage rates would be the same at all fast-food places around the nation, right?

People that don't understand the economic definition of a word shouldn't use it when discussing economic issues.

No....Labor markets are localized based on costs of doing business and cost of living.
For example....The going rate for a person in my position would draw 25% more if I were working say in Washington DC where the cost of living is significantly higher. However what I do takes much training and requires certain certifications. A convenience store clerk in the DC Metro area may earn a dollar or two more per hour than here because his labor is far less skilled and much more highly available. In other words, there is a much larger supply of unskilled labor. Just about anyone can be a C-Store cler while with a skilled position such as mine, there are fewer people who would qualify. Rarity makes things more expensive. Same with commodities