Religion, science, humanism, atheism.

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Pappadave, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. Pappadave
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    Pappadave Member

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    Why are we all often enemies seeking to eliminate any and all other belief systems? I'll start with myself. I seek perfection, I choose to have faith in the belief of a Creator, a benevolent God who is perfect. He created the universe and all within it in an act of love. He then gave us a fairly simple set of requirements to join Him in perfection. Love Me and all of My creation. I see nothing in any other belief system that negates my belief. Works for me and that is all that is necessary. Science; I seek perfection. I believe the only way to achieve that is to learn all things, know and understand all things; I put my faith in that, works for me, that is all that is necessary. Humanism; I seek perfection. I put my faith an the innate goodness of man, the community of all of mankind. Works for me, that is all that is necessary. Atheist; I seek perfection. I will put my faith only in myself. Works for me, that is all that is necessary. There are other belief systems but they all seek the sane goal, the same destination. We all cry free will, the right to choose, freedom. The irony is that every individual has free will, the right to choose (and the responsibility to accept the consequences). Can all of us be right? Yes. Can all of us be wrong? Yes. All roads lead to and meet at infinity. Can any of us demand the right to put up roadblocks, seek to destroy or eliminate any road being used by another? No. Are any of our faiths immutable, locked, not subject to change? No.

    The problems arise because mankind has a universal, incurable disease. I call it "I" strain. everything we see, think, or do is filtered by the I (ego). Every act we perform is directed and influenced by our ego. Most of our actions to interfere with other peoples faith is based on our belief that our way is right(works for me!) therefore our way is the only way and the others must be ignored or eliminated. Are there any hard barriers between these belief systems? Some seem to think so, I and many others don't. I believe in God, I believe in science, I believe in the community of all mankind, and I believe in myself. I and many others also believe in facets of other systems as well. We all in some way or fashion seek perfection, Does anyone really care how we achieve that goal. The how is irrelevant, the destination is most certainly not. I wish all of you, all of mankind well, I hope(have faith) that we will succeed. Peace, Love, and Faith. Pappadave.
     
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  2. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    The problem arises when each of us as individuals or a group try to force by various means others to conform to our beliefs or lifestyles.

    Why I am opposed to organized religion as a general rule.
    i am intolerant of intolerance.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  3. waltky
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    waltky Wise ol' monkey Supporting Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right - dey realizin' dey need to get right with God...
    :clap2:
    Global Study: Atheists in Decline, Only 1.8% of World Population by 2020
    July 24, 2013 -– Atheism is in decline worldwide, with the number of atheists falling from 4.5% of the world’s population in 1970 to 2.0% in 2010 and projected to drop to 1.8% by 2020, according to a new report by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Mass.
     
  4. Steven_R
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    Steven_R Tommy Vercetti Fan Club

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    I'm not trying to do anything with anyone's belief system. Believe what you want. One god, no gods, and unlimited number of gods, Earth spirits, the Force, whatever. I'm not going to tell you what to believe.

    I'm a scientist. I go with the evidence before me. That doesn't include anyone's mythologies or creation stories, regardless of how well meaning those tales are. I only look for natural explanations because the supernatural is, by definition, outside of the natural world. I can do nothing with it. I can't observe, measure, quantify, or build a falsifiable test around something that is on another plane of existence.

    Personally, I'm an agnostic. I have no proof in front of me of the existence of a higher power. That said, if one were to exist I suspect it would be more along the lines of Spinoza's God or what a Deist conceptualization of God is than the God of the Bible or Norse gods or Egyptian gods or Hindu gods or so on.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Religion and philosophy answer the question "why?" Science answers the question "how?" Different methodologies, different objectives, different mindsets all of which mean the two are not interchangeable. As long as they both work their own side of the street, all is well. The problem comes when one side or another try to horn in on the other's area of responsibilities. Fundamentalists trying to shoehorn Jesus into the classroom with their ID notions gets my hackles up. So do atheists that use science as a tool to attack religious people and institutions.

    My job is simple: figure out what makes the natural universe tick. It is not to tell anyone their god is a lie or that they are fools or anything of the sort. If someone wants to listen to what I've found and how I've found it, great. If what I've found clashes with their worldview and they can't reconcile the two, that isn't my problem. But if someone simply refuses to listen to what I've found with, that's good too. I'm perfectly happy to let someone rely entirely on their Holy Books and mythologies...until they start trying to undermine what I'm doing on my side of the street.
     
  5. Steven_R
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    Steven_R Tommy Vercetti Fan Club

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    There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
    -Nigel Powers
     
  6. oldfart
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    oldfart Older than dirt

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    I assume with the number of atheists miniscule and declining, all the hype about "persecuted Christians" in American society is accepted as self-serving tripe and we can all go home now.
     
  7. The Irish Ram
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    The Irish Ram LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough

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    What a nice post Pap, but you left out Christ. What good is it to gain the world but lose your soul, a predicament that faces those who put their faith in themselves or in the notable scientist of the day.....

    As for self serving tripe, try wearing a cross to school today. Burqa yes, cross no.
     
  8. Steven_R
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    Steven_R Tommy Vercetti Fan Club

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    I don't have faith in science. I have trust...because I can verify. I can run any scientific experiment and test any scientific hypothesis that comes down the pike and see if it is right. I can't do that with any religion.
     
  9. BranSoddingBoru
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    BranSoddingBoru Rookie

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    Don't say 'all'. The tendency to eliminate other belief systems seems to be peculiar to religionists. When a group is already convinced they possess ultimate truth, they tend to view divergent opinions as dangerous. How often do you see Humanist organizations campaigning against other belief? I'll save you the trouble of an answer: Never.

    There are so many problems with this, I hardly know where to start. You do, of course, have the right to believe whatever you wish. I'm unsure how you can call God 'benevolent', though, and I suggest you do a bit of research into 'the problem of evil'. The requirements your God handed you are anything but simple - in fact, most of them are impossible to follow. Finally, if you don't see anything in any other belief system which negates your belief, you aren't looking very hard.

    I've known a good number of scientists in my life, and have yet to meet one who sought 'perfection'. If you think that's what they do, then you have a misunderstanding of how science works.

    Speaking as both a Humanist and an Atheist, I find the above characterization monstrouly offensive.

    Erm...no, they don't.

    When I have more time, I'll explain to you why free will and your belief in God are incompatible.

    Could you explain who ALL of us can be both right and wrong? And - just so you know - nothing can possible 'meet at infinity'.

    Funny how religionist have been doing just that ever since there have BEEN religionists.
     

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