Relations via 9/11

[rtwngAvngr]

Though not an American, I will not forget 9/11 as a tragedy, not just for my neighbour, but for the whole world. We were there with you then, we will still remember now.

I was at university attending my morning classes when I heard of the events. The rest of my day's classes were cancelled. It was surreal at the university, quiet, almost as if it had happened in my home town. Then the airplanes began landing at our airports. I passed by the airport and saw our tarmack covered with US bound planes and dozens of buses taking passengers to nearby hotels, hostels and private homes. For one day, normal life had stopped.

Lest we forget the tragedies of mankind.

yet 60% percent of canadian teens or whatever think america is evil. Do you ever work to dispel this insane notion in those you encounter, or do you just go along with the groupthink?

 

[Isaac Brock]

yet 60% percent of canadian teens or whatever think america is evil. Do you ever work to dispel this insane notion in those you encounter, or do you just go along with the groupthink?

I'm not going to argue your perception of my country on a thread devoted to the memory of 9/11. That's in bad taste.

However, if you don't believe Canada wasn't outraged on 9/11 then perhaps you should read some of the headlines the days after in our newsprint, or look up how many Canadians gave blood for sources destined for down south, our how much we donated to the families, or how many families and businesses donated their houses and rooms to American passengers stranded up in Canada.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm not going to argue your perception of my country on a thread devoted to the memory of 9/11. That's in bad taste.

However, if you don't believe Canada wasn't outraged on 9/11 then perhaps you should read some of the headlines the days after in our newsprint, or look up how many Canadians gave blood for sources destined for down south, our how much we donated to the families, or how many families and businesses donated their houses and rooms to American passengers stranded up in Canada.

I know you saw the poll from a couple days ago. It's not just my perception. Your insincerity is in bad taste.

 

[Isaac Brock]

I know you saw the poll from a couple days ago. It's not just my perception. Your insincerity is in bad taste.

So let me get this straight, you believe I wish ill on the United States and am glad for 9/11? You also believe my kinsmen believe the same thing?

 

[Avatar4321]

I know you saw the poll from a couple days ago. It's not just my perception. Your insincerity is in bad taste.

this isnt the place for this.

 

[Annie]

this isnt the place for this.

I agree, gonna split and move to Canada forum.

 

[Annie]

So let me get this straight, you believe I wish ill on the United States and am glad for 9/11? You also believe my kinsmen believe the same thing?

Issac, I'm with Evil, it's part of the reason I chose to split this thread. You are good people! So are nearly every Canadian I've come in contact with, with the exception of Mr Marbles, who is a self-proclaimed socialist/communist, all have been remarkably open minded, even when disagreeing. Mr Marbles is always polite, even if I never agree with him. Most harsh criticism for dumb things said by your officials has come from Canadians-which of course brings you to nearly American standard of bashing politicians!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

this isnt the place for this.

I asked him if he argued when canadians say america is evil. If he does not, he's part of the problem.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So let me get this straight, you believe I wish ill on the United States and am glad for 9/11? You also believe my kinsmen believe the same thing?

I never said that. If you listen to "AMerica is evil" clap trap, and do not argue, then you could be a better friend to us.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

It was a mods decision so it will stay put. Why get after Isaac on this one? that was a truly respectful post that he made

I asked him if he argued with the antiamerican crap which abounds in his country. He got defensive. I feel a true friend would be on our side more than one day a year. Is that so insane? Yeah sure. I'm an awful person now.

 

[Isaac Brock]

I never said that. If you listen to "AMerica is evil" clap trap, and do not argue, then you could be a better friend to us.

I do not think America is evil by any means. They are my neighbour and closest ally. I don't agree with a lot in the US, but that should not be surprising. If our nations agreed with absolutely everything, than we should and would be the same nation.

I've seen the poll that says Canadian teenagers think the US is evil, but those are teenagers. A vast majority of teenagers are always against whoever they perceive "the man" to be. If you came to Canada, I think you might be surprised how the average American is perceived and received. Furthermore, I think you might be very surprised how Canadians feel about 9/11.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I do not think America is evil by any means. They are my neighbour and closest ally. I don't agree with a lot in the US, but that should not be surprising. If our nations agreed with absolutely everything, than we should and would be the same nation.

I've seen the poll that says Canadian teenagers think the US is evil, but those are teenagers. A vast majority of teenagers are always against whoever they perceive "the man" to be. If you came to Canada, I think you might be surprised how the average American is perceived and received. Furthermore, I think you might be very surprised how Canadians feel about 9/11.

Sorry Isaac, to throw your kind words back in your face like that. That was a little uncool.

Where do you see the main disagreements? Socialism vs. capitalism? Stopping nuclear proliferation in the hands of terrorists vs. allowing it to get worse?

 

[MrMarbles]

9/11 was a horrible event. But unfortunatley it is one in a long line of horrible events. Canada was/is on the side of America when it comes to the war on terror, and bringing those to justice that commited this one such act.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

9/11 was a horrible event. But unfortunatley it is one in a long line of horrible events. Canada was/is on the side of America when it comes to the war on terror, and bringing those to justice that commited this one such act.

How about when it comes to perpetuating unfounded antiamerican propaganda?

America evil? You sit there and spew that crap and then want to be "on our side". It's insincere.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Sorry Isaac, to throw your kind words back in your face like that. That was a little uncool.

Where do you see the main disagreements? Socialism vs. capitalism? Stopping nuclear proliferation in the hands of terrorists vs. allowing it to get worse?

Apology accepted.

Disagreements?

Universal Healthcare is something very close to the Canadian psyche and it works and is important that it is universal. It is not perfect and I do not pretend it is. Nor do I pretend that it would be necessarily feasable in the US. It does however have some main advanatages:
- Remote/Arctic towns would not have the economic climates necessary to provide user pay systems
- Given the reduced income discrepency between rich and poor compared with the United States it is more economical on a per capita basis to provide healthcare as a social program. For proof, see past threads in which I provided a few independant reports. Canadians pay less per capita for socialized healthcare than the US.

Cultural assimilation is very different between the US and Canada for both ethical and historical reasons. Canada's cultural diversity was a matter of straight immigration. The US's cultural basis also included slavery and Mexican migrants. As such Canada's diversity is spread more evenly because more immigrants came from more countries and we're much more geographically spread than that in the US, where ex-slave and migrant states have huge pockets of immigrants of a given ethnicity. Since Canada's cultural minorities were more spread out, the concept of multiculturalism in regards to a more liberalized stance on education, faith, language, etc was much easier and necessary for Canada to bear and why it is possible for two official languages.

Post WW2, to the end of the Cold War, Canada and the US had essentially identical foreign policies. With the end of the cold war, the lack of a new superpower has changed the world political climate. US is the sole superpower, and its foreign policy is geared towards maintaining its influence around the world and ensuring the stability of US institutions both at home and abroad. Canada does not have the world influence and as such, the same pressures or needs. It is indeed this reason why Canada introduced the concept of Peacekeepers in the 1950's. It wasn't exactly a completely alturistic motive. Canada cannot project force in the world, but it could project its values in populations through Peacekeeping. Whether we have been entirely successful is certainly open for debate, but the values are the same.

Until the War in Iraq, the policies were essentially one of the same through values were perhaps different. The US saw the War on Iraq as an extension of the War or Terror. The case was simply not made to the international community on either that connection or the connection to weapons of mass destruction.

In addition, there is a disagreement on how to wage the war or terror ties into the previously mentionned Canadian foreign policy. Without going to deep into debate on how to wage the war on terrorism, the skinny is that the US believes the best method is to use force to root out the terrorists unconventional forces. The prevailing Canadian sentiment is that Terrorism cannot be fought with force alone due to unconventional element of the Terrorists.

The main line the government is portraying is to eliminate known terrorists by conventional forces, but also attempt to remove the underlying social factors that breed terrorists. Unfortunately this is all hot air, because Canada has neither the ability nor the means to provide the resources or influence necessary to carry out its strategy. Canada wished the international community focussed on the re-building of Afghanistan to make Afghanistan a successful model of westernization of a failed terrorist state.

Other disagreements include Kyoto protocol, environmental management, social policy and energy management. Though they may seem like many, the similarities far outweigh the differences. Canada is a democratic, capitalistic state with equality and fundamental human rights for every citizen, just like the United States

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Typical harmful lib socialist policies.

The conditions that cause terrorism? What are those.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Typical harmful lib socialist policies.

Why?

The conditions that cause terrorism? What are those.

Poverty, social inequity, popularity of religious fundamentalism and hopelessness.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Why?

Quality of care suffers. People must accept whatever the government gives them with no recourse. Free markets keep prices lower, and quality higher. This is econ 101. I believe the U.S. should let market forces into it's healthcare more by retraining individuals to not see health care as an entitlement and to pay for it on their own, like we're willing to do with new cars. I believe that healthcare alternatives for the poor WOULD spring up at lower price points. You're going in exactly the wrong direction.

Poverty, social inequity, popularity of religious fundamentalism and hopelessness.

How about despotic tyrannical governments who purposefully create jihadist armies to use as a wedge against the west? do you see these as a factor? Have you been reading the threads about the quaran and what it says about jews and christians? Just wondering.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And another thing. America is the most truly multicultural nation on earth. What you mean by "multiculturalism" is institutionalized white/christian guilt.

Aren't there laws against NON french signs and non french radio in some areas of canada? That's fascist, dude.

 

[Annie]

Apology accepted.

Disagreements?

Universal Healthcare is something very close to the Canadian psyche and it works and is important that it is universal. It is not perfect and I do not pretend it is. Nor do I pretend that it would be necessarily feasable in the US. It does however have some main advanatages:
- Remote/Arctic towns would not have the economic climates necessary to provide user pay systems
- Given the reduced income discrepency between rich and poor compared with the United States it is more economical on a per capita basis to provide healthcare as a social program. For proof, see past threads in which I provided a few independant reports. Canadians pay less per capita for socialized healthcare than the US.

Well dang it Issac, I tried to be nice then you had to go and get stupid. :scratch:

Prove to me that Canadians pay less for comperable treatment. I want to see that link!

Cultural assimilation is very different between the US and Canada for both ethical and historical reasons. Canada's cultural diversity was a matter of straight immigration. The US's cultural basis also included slavery and Mexican migrants. As such Canada's diversity is spread more evenly because more immigrants came from more countries and we're much more geographically spread than that in the US, where ex-slave and migrant states have huge pockets of immigrants of a given ethnicity. Since Canada's cultural minorities were more spread out, the concept of multiculturalism in regards to a more liberalized stance on education, faith, language, etc was much easier and necessary for Canada to bear and why it is possible for two official languages.

I'm too tired to dig at this, so it's a gimme.

Post WW2, to the end of the Cold War, Canada and the US had essentially identical foreign policies. With the end of the cold war, the lack of a new superpower has changed the world political climate. US is the sole superpower, and its foreign policy is geared towards maintaining its influence around the world and ensuring the stability of US institutions both at home and abroad. Canada does not have the world influence and as such, the same pressures or needs. It is indeed this reason why Canada introduced the concept of Peacekeepers in the 1950's. It wasn't exactly a completely alturistic motive. Canada cannot project force in the world, but it could project its values in populations through Peacekeeping. Whether we have been entirely successful is certainly open for debate, but the values are the same.

Until the War in Iraq, the policies were essentially one of the same through values were perhaps different. The US saw the War on Iraq as an extension of the War or Terror. The case was simply not made to the international community on either that connection or the connection to weapons of mass destruction.

In addition, there is a disagreement on how to wage the war or terror ties into the previously mentionned Canadian foreign policy. Without going to deep into debate on how to wage the war on terrorism, the skinny is that the US believes the best method is to use force to root out the terrorists unconventional forces. The prevailing Canadian sentiment is that Terrorism cannot be fought with force alone due to unconventional element of the Terrorists.

The main line the government is portraying is to eliminate known terrorists by conventional forces, but also attempt to remove the underlying social factors that breed terrorists. Unfortunately this is all hot air, because Canada has neither the ability nor the means to provide the resources or influence necessary to carry out its strategy. Canada wished the international community focussed on the re-building of Afghanistan to make Afghanistan a successful model of westernization of a failed terrorist state.

Other disagreements include Kyoto protocol, environmental management, social policy and energy management. Though they may seem like many, the similarities far outweigh the differences. Canada is a democratic, capitalistic state with equality and fundamental human rights for every citizen, just like the United States

Looked for a break in the 'thinking', couldn't find it.