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This is due to lopsided and revisionist state controlled media. You lefties love this type of thing. We shouldn't modify our behaviour to appease massive hatred, regardless of how diffiucult it may be to beat it down.mrsx said:I am - very seriously - on the side of my country and the values I believe it stands for. I agree with you about the war with theocratic islamism. The problem is that what started out as a civil war within the Arab world - with most Arabs looking for Western help in modernizing their societies and economies - has become a holy war against the infidel invader in which the islamists have gone from being seen as nut cases to being seen as great heroes in Arab history.
It hasn't helped to have Republican superstars like Gen. Jerry Boykin, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Junior Graham denouncing the Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, as a child molester and terrorist or claiming that Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians or Jews. I can see why you want to put these crazies back in the attic at this time, but the GOP leadership was sure loving them back when they thought they were bringing in the voters.
I urge you to get your opinions from Muslims directly. I am not presenting myself as an expert on Islam. I have formed my opinions and you should do the same. Speaking of violence perpetrated in the name of religion, are you familiar with the teachings of Gen. Jerry Boykin? He's one of your guys and in charge of military intelligence in CENTCOM.Fmr jarhead said:I am pretty certain most PEOPLE abhor the violence perpetrated in the name of their religion (no matter it buddhism, islam, hindu or christian)(except for those, like you, who hate our government even more than those who would rather seperate your noggin from your torso even while you support them)... the only slurs thrown out here are directed at radical islamic murderers who have hijacked a religion to further thier goals of repression and thuggery. I know many Muslims who HATE the fact that these radicals are making a mockery of their religion.
Your perception of Arabs thoughts are nothing more than opinions based on your view of the world, and not reality. I would prefer to get opinions from Muslims directly and not filtered through your hatred of our country.
mrsx said:It hasn't helped to have Republican superstars like Gen. Jerry Boykin, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Junior Graham denouncing the Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, as a child molester and terrorist or claiming that Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians or Jews.
mrsx said:I'm not supporting suicide bombers *or* B-52 bombers, just pointing out that the battle for minds and hearts in Arabia is over and we have lost.
I'd love to get into the history of religion in American politics with you but it is really not what this thread is about. I mention these Republican big wigs because the claim was made that theirs was the party of progressive multiculturalism. BTW we didn't add the "Judeo" to "Judeo-Christian country" until long after WWII. Ask any Jew my age about that. Someday we perhaps start calling our culture "Abrahamic" to include Muslims. There are more Muslims in America now than there are Episcopalians. Can't wait to hear how that one is greeted on this board!Kathianne said:I agree that the bolded folks go over the top at times. (this coming from a Christian Catholic, as opposed to the non-Christian Catholics). General Boykin I view differently, he just was not PC enough:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/tonyblankley/tb20031022.shtml
Let me ask you this: Who was had more photo ops in churches? Bush or Kerry? Bush or the Clintons?
mrsx said:I also think there is a wider point here: the Arab world is plenty techno savvy and whether many of them have the stomach for the rhetoric on this particular board or not, they know a great deal more about us than we know about them.
Last time I checked, Epicopalian numbers weren't all that high, since they are the 'high church' to begin with.mrsx said:I'd love to get into the history of religion in American politics with you but it is really not what this thread is about. I mention these Republican big wigs because the claim was made that theirs was the party of progressive multiculturalism. BTW we didn't add the "Judeo" to "Judeo-Christian country" until long after WWII. Ask any Jew my age about that. Someday we perhaps start calling our culture "Abrahamic" to include Muslims. There are more Muslims in America now than there are Episcopalians. Can't wait to hear how that one is greeted on this board!
It is insight like that which causes some people to think "military intelligence" is an oxymoron. You don't really believe that, do you?rtwngAvngr said:Who cares what they think? All you need to know about an enemy is that they want to destroy you.
mrsx said:There are more Muslims in America now than there are Episcopalians. Can't wait to hear how that one is greeted on this board!
Fmr jarhead said:If any of them have the stomach for the beheadings and medieval thuggery that the insurgency supports, it is the duty of all freedom loving people, of all faiths, to help arrange their meeting with Allah!
Any comparison to Abu Ghraib is completely unfounded.....underwear on your head...to even equate it to torture is a complete fallacy. College students have undergone more disturbing rites of hazing to become members of fraternities (and it is still not right...just not quite torture)
Open dialogue and disagreement is the foundation of a free society. We can continue to disagree. but how can you be so supportive of those that do the following....(do not click on the link, if you cannot handle graphic video footage of how civilian contractors have been dealt with in Iraq!)
Do not watch this, unless you have the stomach for the way the Radical Islamic Murderers seek to change the world.
Thank you for expressing your view on open dialogue and disagreement. Let us continue to support that foundation with mutual respect and courtesy. I do *not* support terrorists or jihadis although I have some sympathy with a few of their beefs. I am pointing out that our behavior strengthens their power in their own societies.Fmr jarhead said:If any of them have the stomach for the beheadings and medieval thuggery that the insurgency supports, it is the duty of all freedom loving people, of all faiths, to help arrange their meeting with Allah!
Any comparison to Abu Ghraib is completely unfounded.....underwear on your head...to even equate it to torture is a complete fallacy. College students have undergone more disturbing rites of hazing to become members of fraternities (and it is still not right...just not quite torture)
Open dialogue and disagreement is the foundation of a free society. We can continue to disagree. but how can you be so supportive of those that do the following....(do not click on the link, if you cannot handle graphic video footage of how civilian contractors have been dealt with in Iraq!)
Do not watch this, unless you have the stomach for the way the Radical Islamic Murderers seek to change the world.
I am perhaps more sensitive to your feelings - or aware of your frustration and anger - than you may realize. I'm not advocating for these people. I'm pointing out that we often play into their hands with our rhetorical overkill.rtwngAvngr said:There is a racist violence that is openly advocated and funded by the rulers of most countries of the muslim world and serves as the main message forming the dialogue between the tyrants and the ruled:" Blame Israel, Blame the U.S. Kill the Jews, Kill americans".
Why is your perception so one sided? Guess what. Their rhetoric angers me. Where's your sensitivity to my feelings?
mrsx said:Thank you for expressing your view on open dialogue and disagreement. Let us continue to support that foundation with mutual respect and courtesy. I do *not* support terrorists or jihadis although I have some sympathy with a few of their beefs. I am pointing out that our behavior strengthens their power in their own societies.
mrsx said:I am perhaps more sensitive to your feelings - or aware of your frustration and anger - than you may realize. I'm not advocating for these people. I'm pointing out that we often play into their hands with our rhetorical overkill.
mrsx said:I do *not* support terrorists or jihadis although I have some sympathy with a few of their beefs. I am pointing out that our behavior strengthens their power in their own societies.
mrsx said:]
No, boys, the all-volunteer army is here to stay. They are just going to have to go back to fighting people who won't fight back. Whatever else you can say about the jihadis, the've got guts. That little tea party in al-Anbar province killed 14 of them but we had 7 of our guys killed doing it. A 2-to-1 kill ratio with all our superiority of numbers and equipment tells you something.... and that something is: they are whipping our ass! Read it and weep.
I am advocating for courtesy not appeasment. While there are some dedicated fanatics on their side who will not be swayed by courtesy or indeed much of anything we do or say, there are still large numbers of Arabs in the middle - the ones that are your friends and resent the hijacking of Islam by fundamentalists for example. GWB has recognized this from 9/12 onward, repeatedly saying that our issues are not with Islam but with terrorists who use Islam to hide behind. I think those of you who are his supporters would do well to follow his lead. The racist rhetoric tends to lump all Arabs, perhaps all Muslims into one group. This is not only inaccurate, it is against U.S. interests to do so. Iraq, along with Syria and Egypt has been one of the secular leaders in the Arab world. These folks have no patience with the Wahabis and Taliban crazies. Do we want to drive them into each other's arms? Being a superpower means having a modicum of cosmopolitan sophistication. Perhaps we ought to rein in our own jihadists as a start...Fmr jarhead said:...so we should appease them? Our behavior? Like freedom of expression and freedom to speak our minds and freedom to worship (or not) in any way we choose? Should I feel bad that my words offend someone? Shouldn't they feel just as bad about offending me? Why don't you support my feelings?
Yeah, maybe we should roll up the red carpet and start killing all those that don't agree with our freedoms, right? How about a nice dull blade sawing across the throat, because you cheat on your spouse, or stoning your daughter because she got pregnant (and wasn't traded away for a few head of cattle, first). I guess the medieval thugs have a pretty good answer to all this modernism that we have called progress. Where did I go wrong, in thinking we were becoming a bit more civilized, AS HUMAN BEINGS.
mrsx said:No, boys, the all-volunteer army is here to stay. They are just going to have to go back to fighting people who won't fight back. Whatever else you can say about the jihadis, the've got guts. That little tea party in al-Anbar province killed 14 of them but we had 7 of our guys killed doing it. A 2-to-1 kill ratio with all our superiority of numbers and equipment tells you something.... and that something is: they are whipping our ass! Read it and weep.
