Reconciliation On Health Care (or anything else), How Can You Defend It?

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

 

[code1211]

I don't think there is any justification for this. Reconciliation is a bad idea and runs against the will of the Founders.

If there are not 60 votes for something, it shouldn't pass. In today's political climate, maybe nothing will ever pass. Great! No bills passed? No debt run up.

This is a good thing. Maybe the bills brought up to vote will need to be narrowed down to find a particular point instead of the entire Budget or the entire health care system. Bills this big are not understandable and are custom made for the kind of back room, under the table, dishonest double dealing that we all now expect from each and every crook in the Capital.

If the whole government ground to a halt, it would be a good thing. They could hardly do more harm that way than with what they've been doing.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I agree that Reconciliation is not a good thing - for any reason.

 

[hylandrdet]

This is the problem.

The medical world is ran by business people; the business people are, for the most part, Republicans. They don't want changes to a system that brings in billions of dollars for them.

Now that I'd written this in six-grade languague, you'll understand why the GOP will never cooperate in enacting this bill.

 

[Care4all]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

i'll give a shot at it!

though, i have not done my usual thorough research on the topic yet, but i'll try to, with the little knowledge i have on the topic.

FIRST and foremost, the Healthcare bill, ALREADY WENT TO A VOTE and PASSED, without Reconciliation rules.

The Bill PASSED the house with a majority, and it PASSED the senate with 60 votes, a super majority because a filibuster was played on the bill.

the mere majority vote, is for VERY FEW, amendments made to the ALREADY PASSED Bill that will come out of the Conference to merge the senate version with the house version, this IS NOT another chance to vote down or to vote for the ALREADY PASSED bill....it is amendments that reconcile the 2 that need working out. 95% plus... of the bill is the same.

I would very much have had issue if the democrats used reconciliation to get the bill passed, if they banned filibusters....BUT THIS IS NOT what is happening here plymouth.

And let me remind you, I do NOT support this bill...we are only talking 'process' as you said!

care

 

[dilloduck]

Was this bill ever voted on ?

 

[Care4all]

Was this bill ever voted on ?

smart ass!

but you are too stingy w/ your rep towards me, so i'll pass giving you some pos rep for the smile!

 

[rdean]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Wow, you must have been really outraged when Republicans used it to push their 1.8 trillion dollar tax cut of their medical drug bill.

 

[maineman]

since when did passing a bill by a majority vote become unamerican?

 

[uptownlivin90]

I'm starting to think the federal government is incapable of making big decisions for a reason... because they're just not supposed to.

Katrina was a total disaster... the borders are just wide open... the drug war is a massive criminal enterprise... there are more federal prisons being built then colleges... income taxes are a joke... we throw money to banks and corporations to solve the problems they caused... endless wars... no answers for the deficit... I mean seriously, now the majority party that had 60 votes can't even pass a health reform bill. The federal government is overloaded... and completely dysfunctional, and that's in no way "good". The feds have proven themselves incapable of handling the simplest of tasks and their overreaching has been seriously choking the life out of state and city governments.

I really don't know what to say about this. I've just been turned off by the whole debate. You can't "defend" anything they do anymore. They can't do basic shit right. Respond to a hurricane. Secure a border. I mean really. I seriously can't figure out what the federal government has done right in my life time. And you know I think it is because the system that was set up in this nation was not created to be dealing with all the issues that the federal government is dealing with. Regardless of your political ideology you have to agree constitution or not, the federal government has proven time and time again that it can't deal with major problems and that many issues ARE left to the states, because we don't have a strong federal government set up and we weren't intended to.

Do I think it's right or wrong? Who knows. The way this government is set up, I think the best solution is to scale back the feds considerably and just give it three main functions to work on and that's national security/borders, interstate highways, and foreign policy and emergency response. I think if we cut it back to that, even if it's just temporary and give all the other issues to the states... we'd be far better off. I mean I'm sure there's a way to do it, but it's hard to argue over roads and interstates. Most people agree with the fact that the border needs to be secured but it never get's done. IDK... the idiots have got to do something. We've given them to much power, and they're not able to handle it, it's not their fault, nobody can handle so much at one time. I guess we're comming to a point in our history we're we are realizing that. Sorry for the rant. Kind of off topic but... I mean I'm just discouraged sometimes these days when I hear what's going on. something has to change in our society, and it has to be drastic.

 

[rdean]

since when did passing a bill by a majority vote become unamerican?

Since Republicans became the minority.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is the problem.

The medical world is ran by business people; the business people are, for the most part, Republicans. They don't want changes to a system that brings in billions of dollars for them.

Now that I'd written this in six-grade languague, you'll understand why the GOP will never cooperate in enacting this bill.

This is your justification? C'mon i'm out of the 6th grade why dont you use some graduate level reasoning instead of this hollow claim.

 

[VaYank5150]

I'm wondering WHY reconciliation is coming under the microscope now? Where was all of this attention when the GOP rammed through $1TRILLION in tax cuts for the wealthy using this tactic? Do none of you care how hypocritical you look right now?

 

[maineman]

This is the problem.

The medical world is ran by business people; the business people are, for the most part, Republicans. They don't want changes to a system that brings in billions of dollars for them.

Now that I'd written this in six-grade languague, you'll understand why the GOP will never cooperate in enacting this bill.

This is your justification? C'mon i'm out of the 6th grade why dont you use some graduate level reasoning instead of this hollow claim.

again: since when does majority rule need some additional "justification"?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

i'll give a shot at it!

though, i have not done my usual thorough research on the topic yet, but i'll try to, with the little knowledge i have on the topic.

FIRST and foremost, the Healthcare bill, ALREADY WENT TO A VOTE and PASSED, without Reconciliation rules.

The Bill PASSED the house with a majority, and it PASSED the senate with 60 votes, a super majority because a filibuster was played on the bill.

the mere majority vote, is for VERY FEW, amendments made to the ALREADY PASSED Bill that will come out of the Conference to merge the senate version with the house version, this IS NOT another chance to vote down or to vote for the ALREADY PASSED bill....it is amendments that reconcile the 2 that need working out. 95% plus... of the bill is the same.

I would very much have had issue if the democrats used reconciliation to get the bill passed, if they banned filibusters....BUT THIS IS NOT what is happening here plymouth.

And let me remind you, I do NOT support this bill...we are only talking 'process' as you said!

care

Yes we are.

However, I feel the new ammendemtns and changes have altered the bill signifigantly since watching obama explain the changes in his recent speeches. Therefore I contend its not the same bill that passed and should be reveiewd an have to go through the normal legislative process again.

This is my only issue with what your saying. I do understand a different version of the bill passed once but with the changes i feel it needs to still follow the framework of our government.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bush should have partially privatized Social Security and reformed Medicare, Freddie and Fannie using reconciliation.

And when we win it all back in 2012 that's exactly what we're going to do, and you can kiss the Department of "Education" goodbye!

 

[NYcarbineer]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Yesterday Republican Senator John Barrasso said that a bill this important should get 70 or 80 votes. Why then isn't he right?

1. We elect Senators by a simple majority. What's wrong with that?
2. The House passes bills by a simple majority. What's wrong with that?


btw, the Senate already passed healthcare with 60 votes. Reconciliation is not going to change the entire bill, only a small part of it. Therefore the argument that 1/6 of our economy is going to be drastically impacted by this 'evil' reconciliation is sheer nonsense.

 

[VaYank5150]

Bush should have partially privatized Social Security and reformed Medicare, Freddie and Fannie using reconciliation.

And when we win it all back in 2012 that's exactly what we're going to do, and you can kiss the Department of "Education" goodbye!

What if Bush HAD privatized Social Security, LiarFrank? With the Wall Street collapse and subsequent Stock Market debacle suffered under Bush in the last year of his Presidency, how well would THAT idea have panned out?

 

[SableRay]

I'm wondering WHY reconciliation is coming under the microscope now? Where was all of this attention when the GOP rammed through $1TRILLION in tax cuts for the wealthy using this tactic? Do none of you care how hypocritical you look right now?

Thanks for this GREAT post. The party of NO is just trying to fool the public. I am so glad some of the media are exposing the truth.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Wow, you must have been really outraged when Republicans used it to push their 1.8 trillion dollar tax cut of their medical drug bill.

Indeed I was. Are you saying that since the republicans did it its ok? Are you really using the poor behavior of republican politicians to justify this?