ReagBushonomics101-ENDofUSA?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by fishy, Jun 19, 2004.

  1. fishy
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    fishy Guest

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    These 2 graphs illustrate the fundamental problem with the US Economy:

    http://www.geocities.com/fishypaper/budgetchart.bmp
    http://www.geocities.com/fishypaper/deficit.bmp
    (cut&paste the links)

    On the budget chart you can see that the lions share of your tax dollars goes to 3 agencies: Defense, Interest on the accumulated debt , and taking care of old people. When the Republicans talk about 'big government' they're basically talking about all those departments that have the little bars, but not the military. When Reagan took office he chops the tops off all those little departments like Dept of veterans affairs, Dept. of Education, Transportation, and Urban Development and puts it into Defense; he then borrows more money causing the deficit to balloon (as you can see from the deficit pict. So although the economy cooks, the % of the budget that has to go toward servicing the debt gets bigger and bigger. Meanwhile the nations commercial manufacturing sector withers as the country concentrates on manufacturing military equipment and the rest of the world manufactures everything else, but everyone is happy for a while. Then Bush I takes over, country is in recession, he cuts some of the defense budget (due to end of Cold War) and the recession drags. In the Keynesian economic model the government borrows money when recession hits and stimulates the economy, but the deficit is already too high so we're stuck, then Clinton comes in and things bottom out, then we have tech boom and Clinton increases military spending again and we have a huge surplus-Yeah! But then tech goes bust and Bush II takes over; outsourcing tech jobs, continued decline of commercial manufacturing, Bush runs a record deficit and gets embroiled in the expensive Iraq quagmire, trade deficits mean more borrowing, inflation rises.

    Now the future:
    The % of the budget that goes to service the debt keeps getting bigger, eventually it will reach 50% of the tax collection! The US is eventually forced out of the endless Iraq situation and is forced to cut defense spending, unemployment rises and with it discontent, the 'baby-boomers' start requiring more money.

    S. California is the most vulnerable, having lost it's auto and commercial airplane manufacturing, unemployment is high and the cost of living ridiculous, the government cuts military manufacturing jobs-which is the only manufacturing left in SoCal, the retail sector suffers. The state which has all the resources to become it's own country and is more liberal and ethnic then the rest of the USA, decides to quit paying all this money to the Feds and insists on having a common-wealth relationship with the rest of the country, Texas soon follows and the USA becomes similar to the CIS which is what became of the Soviet Union.. Is this possible?


    :eek:
     
  2. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    No. I don't have time to refute a geocities claim right now but would love to later on.
    The two major fallacies in your argument, though, are these: first, how do you figure that debt interest is going to reach 50% of the budget? That would be, in today's dollars, about $1,200,000,000,000 ($1.2T). Both sides of the political spectrum, not to mention the American people, would respond way before this happened.
    Second, California has no legal means from which to leave the Union. This was settled back in 1865 with this little thing we called the Civil War. Once you're in, you're in. No one is foolish enough to leave again, and even if they were, I doubt the pansies down in California would fight for their independence - they'd be too busy surfing or protesting the annexation of Palestinian baby seals or something.
     
  3. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    The most important stat to look at is debt vs. GDP.
     
  4. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    I tend to disagree with that. It may be that a legal interpretation needs to be made but I don't see anywhere in the constitution that prohibits a state from seceding if that people in that state vote for it.
     
  5. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    I've often wondered what would happen if a state decided to split from the Union today. Legally, I know that Texas can as that was part of the original agreement when Texas joined the Union.

    I would guess that if any state were to leave the Union, the federal government would hit them with a "bill" for all the federal dollars spent in the state that it would saddle the new nation with a difficult burden to carry.
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    While the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, other founding and supporting documents are used regularly by the courts and congress.

    Here is a bibliography I found, that tends to use the Constitution, primarily the 9th Amendment and other sources, of note the Federalist Papers:

    http://www.patriotist.com/lincoln_footnotes.htm
     
  7. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    theres maybe 4 states in the entire union that could be self sustaining were they to secede. Texas, Alaska, California, and Nevada (gambling) provided there weren't any trade or commerce bans put on it by the feds.
     
  8. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    but we're looking at reasons for justification by a president who broke the law and violated the constitution more often than not.
     
  9. nycflasher
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    nycflasher Active Member

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    It's really hard to imagine a state seceding after how far we have come as a nation. Hard to imagine 49 states... and one micronation within our borders. Hard to imagine needing my passport to go to Texas or California.

    But anything is possible, I suppose...
     
  10. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    ever heard of the cherokee nation? comanchee nation? theres over a dozen micronations within our borders.
     

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