Discussion in 'Race Relations/Racism' started by JBeukema, Jun 20, 2009.
Racial Differences in Intelligence: What Mainstream Science Says.
Yet the conclusion is so "icky", mainstream media and politicians won't touch it. I understand why people are afraid of it... if this is true, America with a minority-white population will soon drop from Greatest Nation on Earth to somewhere on par with Jordan or Portugal for national prominence, output and living standard. The remaining whites will be living in gated, guarded communities and need bodyguards to go to private malls. The national systems of administration, especially Social Security and other welfare, will collapse, the dollar will be thwacked by the yen, yuan and euro, and the whole thing will go tribal.
I don't imagine that a general difference of 15 IQ points between averages for whites and blacks (and a smaller difference between whites and various subgroups of Hispanics, as well as Asians and Jews) constitutes a sufficient basis for policy formation that involves racial discrimination, even if there was a genetic basis for such differences. More importantly, whatever genetic basis does exist (if it does) is likely a relatively slight one, and it's of course the case that environmental differences are the more likely culprit. For example, some credit the Flynn effect (the increase in average IQ that occurred over several decades) to the expansion of intellectual stimulation in early childhood and throughout the school years, which would have adversely affected blacks unable to reap such benefits due to the institutionalization of poverty and generally poor conditions.
Moreover, the available empirical research validates the assessment of a primarily environmental basis for such IQ differences. For example, we could consult Dickens and Flynn's (for whom the Flynn effect is named) Black Americans Reduce the Racial IQ Gap: Evidence from Standardization Samples. Consider the abstract:
The increases in various test scores would be illustrated as this:
Obviously, greater integration efforts would maximize these IQ gains further. I'm of the opinion that this would require libertarian education and a socialist economy, but I'll not derail this thread with elaboration on that. Let's just focus on the broad topic of race and IQ.
I have no proposed any such policies. Indeed, every respected person or group involved in this research always echoes the same not: that this knowledge is to be used to better understand the world around us and. Noone (save possibly Tank, who I believe we all feel comfortable dismissing outright ) is proposing any racially-biased policies. This merely puts things into perspective and help us to better understand the world around us. Why are a disproportionately high number of high-paying carrers in 'intelligent' fieels staffed with Semeits, Asians, and Whites? because a disproportionate number f those races have a hugher IQ, on average, than members of other races. Conversely, why does the NBA hve such a disproportionately high number of blacks? because the fact is that a disproportionate number of blacks apossess the rewuisite physical attributes and abilites that allow them to succeed in such areas, caompared to Whites or Asiatics. This has long been recognized as 'folk knowledge'; now we have scientific cinformation.
According the the most recent data availade, genetic factors appear to account for rougly 50% of the g-factor of an individual
Did you read the studies? The point of the studies was that the claims that it is primarily enviromental factors that explains racial differences in g are refuted by the evidence.
Except that differences are evident by age three, among different races of simlilar social class. To deny the genetic factor or the inherent differences between the races is simply not in line with the evidence.
not so. The studies I have posted in these threads state outright that they concluded that such claims are not accurate.
Also, the shrinking of the gap between the races is easily explained by increasing interbreeding between the races.
You can reduce or eliminate enviromental factors, but genetic and racial differences remain.
I would dearly love to see a bell curve study done on the USA population based on CLASS.
I'm betting that we'd find there isn't that there isn't a strong correlation between IQ and social class or incomes.
Some, but not much would be my guess.
I didn't claim that you had. However, William Joyce actively does, and I was not specifically addressing you.
Nope. Outright dismissal of radical proposals is rendered insufficient and irrational in light of the reality that the radical ideology typically becomes the conservative or reactionary ideology by the next century. Of course, to put it more specifically, white nationalist ideology *is* presently reactionary, but there's still not a sound basis for dismissing radical sentiments without rational analysis.
None of this conflicts with anything that I've said. As for the rest of your comments, this cannot progress further until you post the specific empirical research that you're referring to so that I can read and analyze it.
I read Bell Curve many years ago when it was actually NEWS.
I don't doubt its findings.
I do have a question or two though.
So, what of it?
Is there some public policy we should put in place as a result of these findings?
Yes. Or, rather, the REMOVAL of some public policies.
Number 1. Affirmative action. AA is a policy based on the idea that the only reason blacks aren't represented proportionally is because of white racism, the effects of slavery, etc. But this is obviously not the whole story. Much of the difference is explained by inherent differences. In other words, it's nobody's fault blacks are less intelligent... they just ARE. We need to account for this before we complain that we don't have a proportional number of black brain surgeons.
Number 2. The "No Child Left Behind" Act. This law assumes that all children are, as in Lake Wobegone, "above average." No such luck. Not every child is a secret genius just waiting to emerge upon the proper amount of government funding.
Number 3. Forced integration. Like AA, it's based on the notion that the only reason blacks have lower test scores, lesser housing, etc. is their non-proximity to whites. Again, not so. Integration a la Brown v. Board has done NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, over the years to make blacks smarter or more successful. Kill it.
Number 4. Forced employment of blacks. The EEOC assumes that if you don't have a certain percentage of blacks at your company, you're racist. Again, not so.
Number 5. Shut the media the fuck up. The media constantly goes on about the difficulties faced by blacks AS IF DEVIATION FROM WHITE STANDARDS is an unusual state of affairs attributable to white racism. Again, I say, NOT SO. Blacks can naturally be expected to have higher rates of crime, child abandonment, etc. Don't constantly badger us with this as if it's whites' fault.
The trillions of social welfare dollars that have gone from whites to blacks over the decades is a crime of massive proportions... essentially, theft by deception.
I think Herrnstein and Murray addressed this, and what they found was that IQ and income correlate very strongly, AS IF RACE WEREN'T A FACTOR.
In other words, blacks with high IQ's were rich and whites with low IQ's were poor.
DEVASTATING information for those pushing the line that America is a terrible racist country... in fact, when blacks have the natural stuff, they do just fine.
Lynn's work lays out this idea and the data supporting it pretty well.
Separate names with a comma.