Question for conservatives

[DiveCon]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

I think a better observation would be that had George Bush lost the 2004 election, the GOP wouldn't be staring into the abyss right now.

when you consider they still had control of the house and senate, then i say yes they would

the GOP fucked up
they abandoned their core principles and thats why they are out now

 

[Immanuel]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

I think a better observation would be that had George Bush lost the 2004 election, the GOP wouldn't be staring into the abyss right now.

when you consider they still had control of the house and senate, then i say yes they would

the GOP fucked up
they abandoned their core principles and thats why they are out now

Agreed and they will be out for a while, but they are not dead. Eventually, the Democrats will do the same thing and the tide will turn. The GOP is down but not out for the count and even if they were out for good they would simply reform as another party and return to do battle later.

Immie

 

[DiveCon]

I think a better observation would be that had George Bush lost the 2004 election, the GOP wouldn't be staring into the abyss right now.

when you consider they still had control of the house and senate, then i say yes they would

the GOP fucked up
they abandoned their core principles and thats why they are out now

Agreed and they will be out for a while, but they are not dead. Eventually, the Democrats will do the same thing and the tide will turn. The GOP is down but not out for the count and even if they were out for good they would simply reform as another party and return to do battle later.

Immie

it depends on if they return to those core principles or if they want to be dem lite

 

[Immanuel]

when you consider they still had control of the house and senate, then i say yes they would

the GOP fucked up
they abandoned their core principles and thats why they are out now

Agreed and they will be out for a while, but they are not dead. Eventually, the Democrats will do the same thing and the tide will turn. The GOP is down but not out for the count and even if they were out for good they would simply reform as another party and return to do battle later.

Immie

it depends on if they return to those core principles or if they want to be dem lite

It appears that for a while they will go Dem lite, but eventually either the Dems will screw up or Republicans will get smart and realize that they can't beat the Dems at their own game and go back to being conservative.

Immie

 

[Toome]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

Kinda like asking the guy who got shot in the arm if it would have been better to have been poked in the eye instead, isn't it?

 

[code1211]

I think a better observation would be that had George Bush lost the 2004 election, the GOP wouldn't be staring into the abyss right now.

when you consider they still had control of the house and senate, then i say yes they would

the GOP fucked up
they abandoned their core principles and thats why they are out now

Agreed and they will be out for a while, but they are not dead. Eventually, the Democrats will do the same thing and the tide will turn. The GOP is down but not out for the count and even if they were out for good they would simply reform as another party and return to do battle later.

Immie

Eventually? My goodness! The Dems are waking up every day trying to find a new place in their foot to shoot.

Culture of corruption? Is there a Democrat in this country that pays taxes? Obama can't seem to find one to appoint. How about earmarks? How about fiscal control in limiting spending.

Pulling out the troops. Reducing the presence of troops abroad. Shutting down Gitmo. Honesty in government? Nancy can't seem to find out what she believes before someone tells her. Timmy hasn't got a clue about the economy. The Prez fires the head of GM? What's next?

If everyone wasn't so scared and wishing that someone had the amswers, everyone would see that our emperor has no clothes.

The only promise that has been kept was to get a dog for his daughters and even that turned out to be a lie as he got a pure bred instead of a pound dog- don't bring up the allergies. He knew there were allergies when he made that promise. I suppose that it's possible that he never met his daughters before the election, but it seems unlikely.

 

[Immanuel]

when you consider they still had control of the house and senate, then i say yes they would

the GOP fucked up
they abandoned their core principles and thats why they are out now

Agreed and they will be out for a while, but they are not dead. Eventually, the Democrats will do the same thing and the tide will turn. The GOP is down but not out for the count and even if they were out for good they would simply reform as another party and return to do battle later.

Immie

Eventually? My goodness! The Dems are waking up every day trying to find a new place in their foot to shoot.

Culture of corruption? Is there a Democrat in this country that pays taxes? Obama can't seem to find one to appoint. How about earmarks? How about fiscal control in limiting spending.

Pulling out the troops. Reducing the presence of troops abroad. Shutting down Gitmo. Honesty in government? Nancy can't seem to find out what she believes before someone tells her. Timmy hasn't got a clue about the economy. The Prez fires the head of GM? What's next?

If everyone wasn't so scared and wishing that someone had the amswers, everyone would see that our emperor has no clothes.

The only promise that has been kept was to get a dog for his daughters and even that turned out to be a lie as he got a pure bred instead of a pound dog- don't bring up the allergies. He knew there were allergies when he made that promise. I suppose that it's possible that he never met his daughters before the election, but it seems unlikely.

All of that is true, but right now the second Bush Admin is fresh in our minds. It may take some time before America turns on the Dems again. Then again, who knows what will happen in the next two years before the next election campaign begins?

Immie

 

[DiveCon]

Agreed and they will be out for a while, but they are not dead. Eventually, the Democrats will do the same thing and the tide will turn. The GOP is down but not out for the count and even if they were out for good they would simply reform as another party and return to do battle later.

Immie

it depends on if they return to those core principles or if they want to be dem lite

It appears that for a while they will go Dem lite, but eventually either the Dems will screw up or Republicans will get smart and realize that they can't beat the Dems at their own game and go back to being conservative.

Immie

lets hope the GOP learns fast
LOL

 

[PoliticalChic]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

Why start with Kerry?

A better name for this thread would be "The Butterfly Effect," the 2004 film where a change in one event can change the world:
"The butterfly effect is a phrase that encapsulates the more technical notion of sensitive dependence on initial conditions in chaos theory. Small variations of the initial condition of a dynamical system may produce large variations in the long term behavior of the system. This is sometimes presented as esoteric behavior, but can be exhibited by very simple systems: for example, a ball placed at the crest of a hill might roll into any of several valleys depending on slight differences in initial position."
Butterfly effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now if Jeri Ryan and Jack hadn't divorce, " on August 27, 1999. Although Ryan mentioned in an interview for Star Trek that the frequent separations had been difficult for the marriage, the reasons for the divorce were kept sealed at their mutual request... Jeri had accused Jack Ryan of asking her to perform sexual acts with him in public, and in sex clubs in New York, New Orleans, and Paris."
Thus ended Jack's shot at the open senate seat in Illinois.

Wanna guess who walked into that senate seat?

This is Jeri, who gave us President Obama:
[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qXcPhZQxKu8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qXcPhZQxKu8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[MatthewAycock]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

Yes. Two reasons:

1. While I love George Bush as a governor and respect him as a man, he created a lot of programs we didn't need and generated substantial federal government growth. This let me down as a conservative.

2. Obama has not eliminated any of Bush's agendas at all, although he promises to do so really soon if we maintain faith. Instead, he has tripled the budgets on many of these programs and created more debt in his first 100 days than I can fathom.

 

[garyd]

Wrong everything GW Bush did the Dems wanted to do only more of it at higher levels of spending anyone still gullible enough to think of the Democrats as the party of fiscal restraint is in despearte need of cranial/rectal seperation surgery.

 

[alan1]

I never said anything about any specific person who should have been run. It's certainly not as though there aren't any real conservatives in America. They could have found one.

define real conservative.

those who believe in small government. Those who dont necessarily like McCain, but see him as a lesser evil than Obama.

I refused to vote for the lesser of two evils. In fact, I refused to vote for evil period.
I cast my votes for everything but POTUS in this last election.

 

[garyd]

I didn't vote for the lesser of to evils rather I voted for the lesser of two spenders. I don't consider either of them to be evil just reality challenged.

 

[wizard61]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

Actually, if a "real" conservative force does not move the US back towards the principles of our founding, we are just another euro socialist country anyway. It's not the end of the world, but it's not quite Land of the Free/Home of the Brave and all that.

If we average 5+ hours of TV every night indefinitely, the winner of American Idol really is more important than who our president is.

Could we even attempt something like D-Day any more?

 

[submarinepainter]

I do not care who we elect as long as the Constitution is followed ,Right now I see either self serving party doing that.

 

[DiveCon]

I do not care who we elect as long as the Constitution is followed ,Right now I see either self serving party doing that.

you got that right
neither the dems or repubs are following the constitution
and if only the constitution party would drop their religious items i could support them
i dont want any government mandated religion, not even if it's my own

 

[Cecilie1200]

who was the "actual conservative"?

I never said anything about any specific person who should have been run. It's certainly not as though there aren't any real conservatives in America. They could have found one.

define real conservative.

Someone who espouses conservative principles proudly and doesn't abandon them the first time the media scowls at him.

 

[xotoxi]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

A leftist is a leftist is a leftist, so no. Starting down this road four years earlier wouldn't have been better. What would have been better is if the Republicans had run an actual conservative. Consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be President right now.

Are you saying that a large percentage of people that voted for Obama would have instead voted for a strict conservative had they run?

 

[wizard61]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

A leftist is a leftist is a leftist, so no. Starting down this road four years earlier wouldn't have been better. What would have been better is if the Republicans had run an actual conservative. Consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be President right now.

Are you saying that a large percentage of people that voted for Obama would have instead voted for a strict conservative had they run?

I'll say it: if a philosophic clone of Ronald Reagan had run, he'd have won easily. Maybe not if he'd said the fundamentals of the economy are sound, though.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Would we be better off if John Kerry had won in 2004? consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be president right now.

A leftist is a leftist is a leftist, so no. Starting down this road four years earlier wouldn't have been better. What would have been better is if the Republicans had run an actual conservative. Consider this: Barack Obama would NOT be President right now.

Are you saying that a large percentage of people that voted for Obama would have instead voted for a strict conservative had they run?

I couldn't say about Obama voters. What I CAN say is that a lot of people who didn't vote would have.