Puerto Rico... US citizens???

[SpinDr79]

One simple question to you kind people, as US citizens, should Puerto Ricans be allowed to vote in presidential elections?

 

[OnePercenter]

Yes.

 

[EatMorChikin]

No because they do not have voting house or senate members.

 

[SpinDr79]

Why would that matter? I mean given that decisions our president makes could directly effect them... They don't have appropriate reps, but shouldn't they? Again just throwing it out there

 

[Care4all]

They don't have State electoral college representatives, without them, their votes would be meaningless.

 

[SpinDr79]

Ok so why shouldn't we get rid of the electoral college then? I mean that was formed originally bc of difficulty with the voting process. We've come a long way and have the ability to concurrently add up the popular vote just as fast now. Many ppl hate the electoral college as it diminishes their individual vote if their state is heavily in favor of the opposing candidate.. So let me ask you this. Would you be in favor of tossing the electoral college away with the other archaic policies that need to go in order to be exact with our country's elections and in the process allow US citizens in a place like Puerto Rico a chance to vote for president?

 

[Statistikhengst]

One simple question to you kind people, as US citizens, should Puerto Ricans be allowed to vote in presidential elections?

Puerto Ricans possess the US Passport and have had it since 1917, because Puerto Ricans have served, and with distinction, I might add, in the US Military. But the US Constitution and our federal laws make it clear that in Presidential GENERAL ELECTIONS, only the residents of US states (and Americans abroad who were born in and living in the USA) are allowed to vote.

Puerto Rico has three options:

1.) Stay a US Protectorate
2.) Declare independence
3.) Apply for US-statehood.

 

[Steinlight]

Ok so why shouldn't we get rid of the electoral college then? I mean that was formed originally bc of difficulty with the voting process. We've come a long way and have the ability to concurrently add up the popular vote just as fast now. Many ppl hate the electoral college as it diminishes their individual vote if their state is heavily in favor of the opposing candidate.. So let me ask you this. Would you be in favor of tossing the electoral college away with the other archaic policies that need to go in order to be exact with our country's elections and in the process allow US citizens in a place like Puerto Rico a chance to vote for president?

If I were American, I would be in favor of keeping the electoral college and not allowing Puerto Rico statehood.

The electoral college seems like a good thing in my estimation because it is a check against the tyranny of the majority. It also protects the interest of states, particularly smaller ones, from being completely dominated by a couple major cities which are liberal for the most part.

 

[Anathema]

As someone whose wife is of Puerto Rican descent, though she was born in NYC......

NO. Not until they become a state and undertake all the responsibilities of Citizenship.

 

[SpinDr79]

Ok if you were American you'd know that our last 4 elections were pretty much decided by Florida... Thus making the votes if the rest of the USA pointless due to the electoral college... Talk about tyranny!! If you are a democrat in alabama your vote doesn't matter in gen presidential elections, if you are republican in California your vote doesn't matter. State trends in electoral college elections discourages minority voters in states that typically swing in one fashion. And with regard to large cities, yes they go liberal... All of them and by themselves can swing an entire state in the electoral college. You get rid of the EC and NYC would go against 300 million other voters instead of just the state of New York. I just don't get your logic. And about the tyranny of the majority.... How about the tyranny of the minority... The wealthiest 1 percent of America that essentially run our country and influence every election across the board by throwing $ at candidates that suit their ideologies. A gov't for the ppl and not for just the rich... The electoral college is only damaging in contemporary America. Make every person's vote count. Don't try to say a factory worker in the city's vote should hold any less weight than a rural farmer just because of population density.

Puerto Rico recently held votes showing they want to be a state, and once they apply they should receive representation, and be able to vote in gen elections. Right wingers don't want it bc they know they'll be overwhelmingly democratic... Thats too bad though, as said earlier they faught and died, served in war for the United States military commanded by a president who they cannot even vote for.

 

[SpinDr79]

Sry messed up your quote there somehow

 

[Steinlight]

It seems to me it is fairer to have an election decided by some swing states thus giving them some power and protecting their interests, rather than government being dictated solely by big city interests. Small states and swing states would be ignored under a 50%+1 system. Also an electoral college system inherently forces candidates to the right which I support, as opposing to a liberal urban base. In this way candidates have to be more pluralistic and appeal to a broader swath of people. A popular vote would disenfranchise conservatives and rural folks and breed even more division than already exists. Candidates would never have to campaign outside of LA, DC, NYC, Chicago and DFW. If anything they would be less accountable to the people since big city politics is dictated by big money donors. Politics would become even less populist and more elitist.

As for Puerto Rico, they are a drain economically and a social blight with a much lower living standard than the fifty other states. They should be there own country rather than a state. Otherwise they should be thankful to be a territory. The last thing America needs is more welfare dependent voters having sway in elections

 

[TheOldSchool]

One simple question to you kind people, as US citizens, should Puerto Ricans be allowed to vote in presidential elections?

Puerto Ricans possess the US Passport and have had it since 1917, because Puerto Ricans have served, and with distinction, I might add, in the US Military. But the US Constitution and our federal laws make it clear that in Presidential GENERAL ELECTIONS, only the residents of US states (and Americans abroad who were born in and living in the USA) are allowed to vote.

Puerto Rico has three options:

1.) Stay a US Protectorate
2.) Declare independence
3.) Apply for US-statehood.

Funny those are the 3 political parties they have!

 

[sealybobo]

One simple question to you kind people, as US citizens, should Puerto Ricans be allowed to vote in presidential elections?

That would be cool to make Iraq afganistan and Puerto Rico the 53rd states. Bring them into the family.

 

[SpinDr79]

It seems to me it is fairer to have an election decided by some swing states thus giving them some power and protecting their interests, rather than government being dictated solely by big city interests. Small states and swing states would be ignored under a 50%+1 system. Also an electoral college system inherently forces candidates to the right which I support, as opposing to a liberal urban base. In this way candidates have to be more pluralistic and appeal to a broader swath of people. A popular vote would disenfranchise conservatives and rural folks and breed even more division than already exists. Candidates would never have to campaign outside of LA, DC, NYC, Chicago and DFW. If anything they would be less accountable to the people since big city politics is dictated by big money donors. Politics would become even less populist and more elitist.

As for Puerto Rico, they are a drain economically and a social blight with a much lower living standard than the fifty other states. They should be there own country rather than a state. Otherwise they should be thankful to be a territory. The last thing America needs is more welfare dependent voters having sway in elections

Ok so it comes out, you want to suppress a possible vote from ppl who have died for the USA in war to push things to the right wing bc you support it. Well the thing is, the dissolving of the Right Wing would be the best thing that has ever happened to this country. Who gives a rats ass about small states??? i live in CT, 3rd smallest state, I wouldn't be worried one bit about popular vote instead of electoral college because every single vote counts... I don't even vote bc my state goes democratic every presidential election. You want the people to feel represented? Make their individual vote count. Thats a democracy.. Big cities would have no greater influence on elections with pop vote or electoral... Do some research my man... One modern election had an incongruence with popular vote and electoral college... And it was guess who?? Our worst president in the history of the USA, GW Bush. God if only we didn't have the EC for that one... Big cities have real American citizens last time I checked..they have rich, they have poor, they have middle class citizens. Don't sit there and tell me that ppl in big cities votes shouldn't count as much as a farmer's. They would be equal under popular vote. In fact I would say big cities skew electoral college points more than they would in a popular vote!!!!! (Think about how LA/ a cpl spots > 1 million pick up California's 55 electoral votes easily but in a pop vote would be against the whole country) Define a big city... NYC is > 10 million strong, LA is > 6 million, Chicago and Houston are > 2 million and there are no other cities > 2 million ppl in the US... We really don't have many big cities.. If you want to see a big one go to Tokyo or Manila or and Chinese City to see cities of 30 million ppl. There are 320 million ppl in the USA... If that collective 25 million ppl in the big 4 cities in the US really can take down the other 295 million citizens then they must be Spartans. And I must say just because you prefer the right wing doesn't make you "right" about your backing of the archaic electoral college in America. The Right wing in America is for the rich, white, christians, and absolutely nobody else. They don't care about the poor or misfortuned, thus always trying to cut down welfarities, they don't care about immigrants that (lets face it) have kept our costs down. They are war mongers who just want to abuse the 2nd Amendment. The slave states from the civil war still vote right wing... Not a coincidence. Each member of the KKK has voted Right Wing for 60 + years. (Republicans should all just wear white hoods to election booths) Its the party of hatred, greed, selfishness, and ignorance. To watch it fall simply because the majority of ppl in America would vote Democratic in absence of electoral college would be a storybook ending in my eyes.

 

[SpinDr79]

As you can see, Obama won the pop vote by only a cpl percentage points, but blew out Romney in the Electoral college. I thought you said it pushes elections to the Right Wing.... You should be for this man

 

[Steinlight]

I don't think you understand how your own electoral system works. Comparing electoral votes and the popular vote is apples and oranges, since electoral votes can be swung by just thousands of the popular vote in close to call swing states. Honestly, I am a bit embarrassed I have to explain your own system for you.

 

[Steinlight]

Voting isn't a right, it is a privilege, and it should be restricted, in this case, restricting net takers from the system disproportionately pushing the the country to the Left. I also don't think because someone lives in a territory where some other people fought for the US Army that they should be granted a right to vote, that is silly.

To me it seems if Puerto Rico wants full representation, than they can receive that through independence and nationhood. However, they will never go for this because they don't want to lose the gravy train of the US Government. The US has no obligation to give them statehood, especially when they are already getting the raw end of the deal.

You may not care about small states and rural areas, but I do, because this provides a check on urban areas, large states, and provides balance. But yes, of course I support the electoral college because it is a more inherently conservative system that protects states rights. As for the US, it is a Constitutional Republic, with a Federalist system that protects the states, not a democracy. I think that is a rather good thing. If you had your proposal, candidates would never have to leave California, New York, Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania because this is where the majority of voters are, not Wyoming or Idaho. If you cant understand that most people live in large states, and populations are concentrated in urban areas, I don't know what to tell you.

Under your system, they wouldn't have to appeal to middle America(read White America) at all, to any kind of economic populism at all, and there would a decidedly liberal shift. If your concern is getting rid of big money in politics, than you should support maintaining the electoral college system, but supporting public financing of elections instead. Your system would empower big money donors further(which are decidedly urban and liberal, both economically and socially) and provide no check upon them. I couldn't think of a worse system then where politicians selected by elite donors only have to appeal to low iq net benefit taking non-white urban dwellers who are easily manipulated by media which is owned by a small elite minority(mostly of one ethnoreligious background).

 

[SpinDr79]

You are an idiot. You have no idea how the electoral college works. The USA is the only country in the world that uses it. It was made because of voting problems in our country's infancy that no longer exist. You don't seem to understand any aspect of how it works and trust me after reading that garbage you just typed up after thinking you had a chance at really understanding how things work in America... (Heck i was even going to go so far as to say this guy might know more than some Americans... Or at least more passionate than most) I now know you're out of the loop.. Especially by your last statement about how you couldn't think of a worse system.... That system you speak of, at least in America, aside from the urban component, is the foundation of the right wing whack job republicans... Special interest funding, wealthiest 1 percent promoting shrinkage of the middle class and throwing the poor under the bus (like puerto rico). And if you don't think that a nation with many USA war veterans doesn't qualify for looking into statehood you are a pathetic piece of shit who only cares about your own asshole and has no interest of making this world a better place than when you (unfortunately) came into it.

 

[Steinlight]

You are an idiot. You have no idea how the electoral college works. The USA is the only country in the world that uses it. It was made because of voting problems in our country's infancy that no longer exist. You don't seem to understand any aspect of how it works and trust me after reading that garbage you just typed up after thinking you had a chance at really understanding how things work in America... (Heck i was even going to go so far as to say this guy might know more than some Americans... Or at least more passionate than most) I now know you're out of the loop.. Especially by your last statement about how you couldn't think of a worse system.... That system you speak of, at least in America, aside from the urban component, is the foundation of the right wing whack job republicans... Special interest funding, wealthiest 1 percent promoting shrinkage of the middle class and throwing the poor under the bus (like puerto rico). And if you don't think that a nation with many USA war veterans doesn't qualify for looking into statehood you are a pathetic piece of shit who only cares about your own asshole and has no interest of making this world a better place than when you (unfortunately) came into it.

I actually have a pretty good idea of the system. You are really in no position given your previous posts trying to equate the popular vote and the electoral college in numerical terms. But go on ranting, I need a laugh.

I agree, the foundation of America is White, Christian, and nominally conservative. I would like it kept that way personally, America is declining socially, politically and economically as it deviates from these foundations. So I support using mechanisms like the electoral college to preserve some semblance of political power and the foundation of America.

You complain about monied powers that control both parties. However as I explained, your system would further empower them. Not only would your system further empower donors who are antagonistic to the middle class through neo-liberal economic policy, creating further disparity and lower living standard, it would electorally weaken the declining primarily white working class you claim to purport. Your system in no way addresses economic disparities, which have grown deeper under successive democrat and republican administrations.

Puerto Rico can look into statehood all they want, but it isn't in US interests to go for it. Puerto Rico should be thankful for the free ride they have gotten to this point. If they don't like their territorial status, they ought to strike out on their own.