Problems with Ex Nihilo Creation

[onefour1]

There is a video series on youtube regarding the problems with ex nihilo creation (ceation out of nothing). Here is a link to that video series:

Problems with Ex Nihilo Video Series - YouTube

 

[Moonglow]

Got a condensed version?

 

[onefour1]

When I was in college I took a course on the philosophy of religion. The instructor posed the question, "If God is all knowing, all powerful, and an all loving being, and he can create anything out of nothing, then why didn't he just create us to be perfect like himself?" This is basically the same concept that the guy doing the video series is suggesting but with much more detail.

 

[Zander]

 

[Moonglow]

When I was in college I took a course on the philosophy of religion. The instructor posed the question, "If God is all knowing, all powerful, and an all loving being, and he can create anything out of nothing, then why didn't he just create us to be perfect like himself?" This is basically the same concept that the guy doing the video series is suggesting but with much more detail.

It's such a grand literature achievement when you can get enough folks to believe the crap you write is worth dying over.

 

[zaangalewa]

There is a video series on youtube regarding the problems with ex nihilo creation (ceation out of nothing). Here is a link to that video series:

Problems with Ex Nihilo Video Series - YouTube

And what is the problem - or do you really think someone will watch now all this videos? I don't see a contradiction to the belief "god made everything out of nothing".

 

[Taz]

And what is the problem - or do you really think someone will watch now all this videos? I don't see a contradiction to the belief "god made everything out of nothing".

Do you think anyone watches any of the videos YOU post after every comment?

 

[ding]

There is a video series on youtube regarding the problems with ex nihilo creation (ceation out of nothing). Here is a link to that video series:

Problems with Ex Nihilo Video Series - YouTube

Why do you think God didn't create a perfect world? Is it because he couldn't or wouldn't?

MLK's answer
We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome. God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome under certain conditions.

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”


ding's answer
The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.

Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature. He can't go against his purpose.

So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism

The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

 

[there4eyeM]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

 

[ding]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

 

[Moonglow]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

That is a human perception of the laws of nature, not one of a God.

 

[ding]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

That is a human perception of the laws of nature, not one of a God.

That is your perception. Not mine.

My perception is that everything which has unfolded since the beginning of space and time leaves no doubt in my mind that rather than being a late outgrowth in the evolution of space and time, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of physical stuff.

I don't see how it can be any other way.

 

[Moonglow]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

That is a human perception of the laws of nature, not one of a God.

That is your perception. Not mine.

My perception is that everything which has unfolded since the beginning of space and time leaves no doubt in my mind that rather than being a late outgrowth in the evolution of space and time, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of physical stuff.

I don't see how it can be any other way.

Even during sex...

 

[ding]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

That is a human perception of the laws of nature, not one of a God.

That is your perception. Not mine.

My perception is that everything which has unfolded since the beginning of space and time leaves no doubt in my mind that rather than being a late outgrowth in the evolution of space and time, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of physical stuff.

I don't see how it can be any other way.

Even during sex...

I think there are at least two ladies in Texas who would agree that at least when it comes to you that nothing came from nothing with regards to sex.

 

[Moonglow]

I don't know about you but I've was reincarnated and know of two lives in previous Earthly visits...I also prognosticated my future in dreams as a child...
I know there are forces out there that humans do not understand because we have not a mind to do as such with..Some have but only a tiny fraction of all humans that have made footprints on this planet...That is why I am one warped individual and think differently than the masses..Hell, my irises are perfectly the same distance from my nose, which is rare...
Now, enough about me, let us return to our poop throwing contest...

 

[Moonglow]

The concept of something coming from nothing is impossible for our thought processes to digest. That may merely be a limit of our thought processes.

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

That is a human perception of the laws of nature, not one of a God.

That is your perception. Not mine.

My perception is that everything which has unfolded since the beginning of space and time leaves no doubt in my mind that rather than being a late outgrowth in the evolution of space and time, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of physical stuff.

I don't see how it can be any other way.

Even during sex...

I think there are at least two ladies in Texas who would agree that at least when it comes to you that nothing came from nothing with regards to sex.

Tell that to Jesus, he never got laid...

 

[there4eyeM]

Because in our experience it seems that everything has precedents does not mean everything does. We would have to infer from limited knowledge to state otherwise.

 

[ding]

Who said something came from nothing?

The laws of nature are something, right?

Something came from the laws of nature.

That is a human perception of the laws of nature, not one of a God.

That is your perception. Not mine.

My perception is that everything which has unfolded since the beginning of space and time leaves no doubt in my mind that rather than being a late outgrowth in the evolution of space and time, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of physical stuff.

I don't see how it can be any other way.

Even during sex...

I think there are at least two ladies in Texas who would agree that at least when it comes to you that nothing came from nothing with regards to sex.

Tell that to Jesus, he never got laid...

Or the mailmen.

 

[ding]

I don't know about you but I've was reincarnated and know of two lives in previous Earthly visits...I also prognosticated my future in dreams as a child...
I know there are forces out there that humans do not understand because we have not a mind to do as such with..Some have but only a tiny fraction of all humans that have made footprints on this planet...That is why I am one warped individual and think differently than the masses..Hell, my irises are perfectly the same distance from my nose, which is rare...
Now, enough about me, let us return to our poop throwing contest...

You are warped because of the choice you made. To see it any other way is to transfer control.

There are forces that humans do not fully understand but that doesn't mean insight cannot be gained from studying what has been created.

 

[ding]

Because in our experience it seems that everything has precedents does not mean everything does. We would have to infer from limited knowledge to state otherwise.

A deterministic universe says otherwise.