President Bush PAID for the Health Care for Illegal Immigrants for 8 Years!

[Care4all]

cool--well lets get institutes to handle health care and NOT the government.
Illegals see free health care as an entitlement and suffer no repurcussions for not paying their bills. Can you get away with that ?

Yes, I can get away with that if I do not care about my credit rating for a 7 year period, and I also have the legal means to declare bankruptcy or to work out a deal with the hospital to pay $50 bucks a month for the rest of my life.

Illegals DO NOT GET free health care....they get Emergency Care...there is a huge difference....one prevents you from getting extremely ill, the other treats you once you are extremely ill...they can get this same care in Mexico...free, no bennies in the usa for THAT.

Care

Garbage---they line the emergency room in Austin with kids who have sniffles and ouchies that you can treat with a bandaid. They pay NOTHING.

May I ask when YOU got OMNI POTENT powers?

HOW do you know they do not pay for the bill or at least a portion of the Bill when they are charged for it?

The government does NOT pay for the sniffles in the ER from my understanding...they pay for the real Emergency situations that qualify...it is not just handed.. for any and everything....

the Hospital takes the HIT and then the tax write off as they would with any citizen that shirks the bill for the sniffles in the ER.

It would help the Hospitals and Doctors and our government a great deal if EVERY ONE had insurance....

 

[Midnight Marauder]

When all else fails,

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!

More of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

Are you really THAT DENSE MM? That you don't see the irony, at least?

"Appeal to Mom" is one of the fallacies of logic, falling under the "bandwagon" category of logical fallacies. It goes like this:

Kid #1 and/or his friends are in trouble with Mom. Kid #1 appeals to Mom with, "But MOM, the other kid did it too!" and promptly earns himself a rap in the mouth.

It's never worked, even on Mom, and most intelligent, mature people give up this logical fallacy around age eight.

Because it's not about the "other kids."

Folks who employ this infantile fallacy of logic when it's to defend Obama fail to realize that in doing so, they completely undermine the "change" mantra. There was supposed to be change, therefore there shouldn't BE any valid comparisons to Bush or anything Bush ever said or did. Otherwise, it's more of the same instead of change.

"See? Booooosh did it too" is a classic example of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

DO you understand? Booooosh isn't President anymore, Obama is. And if your defense of Obama is "Bush did it too" then, you're actually making an argument AGAINST Obama.

Clear?

 

[Care4all]

HOW could you let him do that? Pay for the health care of illegals with our tax dollars for the LAST 8 YEARS?

explain!

go!

You are so brain dead it is amazing your able to function. You may want to explain first how, with no Federal health care program in existence except Medicare and Tricare, neither of which illegals qualify for, President Bush paid for anyone on medical care. Once we get past that hurdle we can get down to more reasons why your ignorant rant is, well ignorant.

I explained it already in a previous post...?

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, I can get away with that if I do not care about my credit rating for a 7 year period, and I also have the legal means to declare bankruptcy or to work out a deal with the hospital to pay $50 bucks a month for the rest of my life.

Illegals DO NOT GET free health care....they get Emergency Care...there is a huge difference....one prevents you from getting extremely ill, the other treats you once you are extremely ill...they can get this same care in Mexico...free, no bennies in the usa for THAT.

Care

Garbage---they line the emergency room in Austin with kids who have sniffles and ouchies that you can treat with a bandaid. They pay NOTHING.

May I ask when YOU got OMNI POTENT powers?

HOW do you know they do not pay for the bill or at least a portion of the Bill when they are charged for it?

The government does NOT pay for the sniffles in the ER from my understanding...they pay for the real Emergency situations that qualify...it is not just handed.. for any and everything....

the Hospital takes the HIT and then the tax write off as they would with any citizen that shirks the bill for the sniffles in the ER.

It would help the Hospitals and Doctors and our government a great deal if EVERY ONE had insurance....

oh please---it doesn't take any powers at all to know that illegals are costing us billions because they don't pay for health care.

 

[alan1]

President Bush PAID for the Health Care for Illegal Immigrants for 8 Years!

HOW could you let him do that? Pay for the health care of illegals with our tax dollars for the LAST 8 YEARS?

explain!

go!

President Bush didn't pay for it, I did. My tax dollars and your tax dollars.
I was against it then, and I am against it now. My stance hasn't changed.

Yes, just as Obama isn't paying for it...

It's the Law that Emergency Rooms treat all emergencies, as IT SHOULD BE.

But because of this unfunded mandate on the Hospitals, they decided to fund a portion of it, so to help the Hospital's forced Loss.

I disagree with your stance and I don't have a problem with this...not now and not under President Bush or all Presidents before him that had this measure in place.

I DO NOT believe that ANYONE should need to be CARDED to get help in an Emergency and I do not believe in a National ID card which it would take to have it any other way, never have...and never will!



Care

I have no problem with emergency rooms treating people (legal or illegal citizen status) for their emergency medical needs. I also have no problem with forcing those people to pay for their treatment. It's not my responsibility to pay for their treatment, it's theirs.

 

[Care4all]

When all else fails,

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!

More of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

Are you really THAT DENSE MM? That you don't see the irony, at least?

"Appeal to Mom" is one of the fallacies of logic, falling under the "bandwagon" category of logical fallacies. It goes like this:

Kid #1 and/or his friends are in trouble with Mom. Kid #1 appeals to Mom with, "But MOM, the other kid did it too!" and promptly earns himself a rap in the mouth.

It's never worked, even on Mom, and most intelligent, mature people give up this logical fallacy around age eight.

Because it's not about the "other kids."

Folks who employ this infantile fallacy of logic when it's to defend Obama fail to realize that in doing so, they completely undermine the "change" mantra. There was supposed to be change, therefore there shouldn't BE any valid comparisons to Bush or anything Bush ever said or did. Otherwise, it's more of the same instead of change.

"See? Booooosh did it too" is a classic example of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

DO you understand? Booooosh isn't President anymore, Obama is. And if your defense of Obama is "Bush did it too" then, you're actually making an argument AGAINST Obama.

Clear?

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT PRESIDENT BUSH....(you still don't get it?)

I was showing you and your crowd of objectionists to Illegals receiving health care coverage under Obama, HAVE BEEN RECEIVING IT all ALONG...EVEN under President Bush....because it is the LAW to service all Emergencies in the Emergency rooms of Hospitals and our gvt subsidizes some of this expense... due to the legal mandate on the Hospitals.

If you do not understand this...let me know and I will try to give another shot at explaining it...

Care

 

[dilloduck]

Are you really THAT DENSE MM? That you don't see the irony, at least?

"Appeal to Mom" is one of the fallacies of logic, falling under the "bandwagon" category of logical fallacies. It goes like this:

Kid #1 and/or his friends are in trouble with Mom. Kid #1 appeals to Mom with, "But MOM, the other kid did it too!" and promptly earns himself a rap in the mouth.

It's never worked, even on Mom, and most intelligent, mature people give up this logical fallacy around age eight.

Because it's not about the "other kids."

Folks who employ this infantile fallacy of logic when it's to defend Obama fail to realize that in doing so, they completely undermine the "change" mantra. There was supposed to be change, therefore there shouldn't BE any valid comparisons to Bush or anything Bush ever said or did. Otherwise, it's more of the same instead of change.

"See? Booooosh did it too" is a classic example of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

DO you understand? Booooosh isn't President anymore, Obama is. And if your defense of Obama is "Bush did it too" then, you're actually making an argument AGAINST Obama.

Clear?

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT PRESIDENT BUSH....(you still don't get it?)

I was showing you and your crowd of objectionists to Illegals receiving health care coverage under Obama, HAVE BEEN RECEIVING IT all ALONG...EVEN under President Bush....because it is the LAW to service all Emergencies in the Emergency rooms of Hospitals and our gvt subsidizes some of this expense... due to the legal mandate on the Hospitals.

If you do not understand this...let me know and I will try to give another shot at explaining it...

Care

Obama is trying to make it policy---along with a million other goofy ideas in his health care plan. Big difference

 

[xotoxi]

good point---what happens after they don't pay?

Well, for those with insurance, the Insurance companies don't pay for the total cost.

For those without insurance but the means to pay, pay it.

For those without insurance, but are American citizens poor enough to qualify for MEDICAID, medicaid pays but they too do not pay for the total cost to the Hospital, and this since 2006 requires proof of citizenship.

For those without insurance but do not qualify for medicaid because they are making a tad too much money to qualify for Medicaid but still too poor to manage the entire bill...they are means tested and pay a portion and the hospital applies for government help to help cover their cost.

If you fall in to none of those or are hit with a good portion of the bill yourself that the Insurance refused to pay, you can ignore the bill and it goes to a collection agency and ruin your credit. The hospital then counts you and your bill as a LOSS on their taxes and gets a tax write off for such....they get to take a loss on all of the "difference" of what they charge and what the insurance companies do not pay on their income taxes, I mean corporate taxes....

This is my understanding of it...I could have left some thing out, but the gist of it is above...

And you think illegals care about their credit rating ?
They go get their medical needs taken care of and toss the bills as if they were junk mail.

I was thinking of doing the same thing with my mechanic. I'll bring my car for repair, not pay him at the time of service, ignore the bills, and get sent to collections. It doesn't matter to me, because if something happens to my car again, I can always go back to him and he'll fix it.

What's that? You mean to tell me that there is no law that mandates that he perform service on my car whether or not I pay?

Ooops! My bad.

 

[Care4all]

President Bush didn't pay for it, I did. My tax dollars and your tax dollars.
I was against it then, and I am against it now. My stance hasn't changed.

Yes, just as Obama isn't paying for it...

It's the Law that Emergency Rooms treat all emergencies, as IT SHOULD BE.

But because of this unfunded mandate on the Hospitals, they decided to fund a portion of it, so to help the Hospital's forced Loss.

I disagree with your stance and I don't have a problem with this...not now and not under President Bush or all Presidents before him that had this measure in place.

I DO NOT believe that ANYONE should need to be CARDED to get help in an Emergency and I do not believe in a National ID card which it would take to have it any other way, never have...and never will!



Care

I have no problem with emergency rooms treating people (legal or illegal citizen status) for their emergency medical needs. I also have no problem with forcing those people to pay for their treatment. It's not my responsibility to pay for their treatment, it's theirs.

Same with the American citizens who did not have the means who could not afford it as well...force them to pay SOME HOW?

And don't have the gvt help the Emergency Rooms at all with the expense they incur because of the legal mandate the gvt put on them?

I kinda think the gvt has to help them MM...the hospitals can not take on this entire burden.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Are you really THAT DENSE MM? That you don't see the irony, at least?

"Appeal to Mom" is one of the fallacies of logic, falling under the "bandwagon" category of logical fallacies. It goes like this:

Kid #1 and/or his friends are in trouble with Mom. Kid #1 appeals to Mom with, "But MOM, the other kid did it too!" and promptly earns himself a rap in the mouth.

It's never worked, even on Mom, and most intelligent, mature people give up this logical fallacy around age eight.

Because it's not about the "other kids."

Folks who employ this infantile fallacy of logic when it's to defend Obama fail to realize that in doing so, they completely undermine the "change" mantra. There was supposed to be change, therefore there shouldn't BE any valid comparisons to Bush or anything Bush ever said or did. Otherwise, it's more of the same instead of change.

"See? Booooosh did it too" is a classic example of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

DO you understand? Booooosh isn't President anymore, Obama is. And if your defense of Obama is "Bush did it too" then, you're actually making an argument AGAINST Obama.

Clear?

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT PRESIDENT BUSH....(you still don't get it?)

I was showing you and your crowd of objectionists to Illegals receiving health care coverage under Obama, HAVE BEEN RECEIVING IT all ALONG...EVEN under President Bush....because it is the LAW to service all Emergencies in the Emergency rooms of Hospitals and our gvt subsidizes some of this expense... due to the legal mandate on the Hospitals.

If you do not understand this...let me know and I will try to give another shot at explaining it...

Care

That's also, "Appeal to Ad Hom" because you don't know who said what about it, or what they think about what Booooosh may have done. You don't KNOW. I do not have a "crowd" and I have never said one fucking THING about health care for illegals!

You are simply infantile and illogical. Therefore you can only employ logical fallacies. And when educated on these, actually DENY you're doing it!

Everyone KNOWS hospitals must provide emergency care, and they ALWAYS have. And always will. That's NOT a Booooosh thing. Therefore now you are also doing what's called "moving the goalposts" because the "objectionists" do NOT object to that, they object to MASSIVE EXPANSION OF IT FOR ILLEGALS that loopholes in HR 3200 provide! They want the LOOPHOLES closed! They don't give a FLYING FUCK about Hospitals giving indigent emergency care. That's ALWAYS been there and MOST people are in favor of it.

Is "objectionist" even a word?

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, just as Obama isn't paying for it...

It's the Law that Emergency Rooms treat all emergencies, as IT SHOULD BE.

But because of this unfunded mandate on the Hospitals, they decided to fund a portion of it, so to help the Hospital's forced Loss.

I disagree with your stance and I don't have a problem with this...not now and not under President Bush or all Presidents before him that had this measure in place.

I DO NOT believe that ANYONE should need to be CARDED to get help in an Emergency and I do not believe in a National ID card which it would take to have it any other way, never have...and never will!



Care

I have no problem with emergency rooms treating people (legal or illegal citizen status) for their emergency medical needs. I also have no problem with forcing those people to pay for their treatment. It's not my responsibility to pay for their treatment, it's theirs.

Same with the American citizens who did not have the means who could not afford it as well...force them to pay SOME HOW?

And don't have the gvt help the Emergency Rooms at all with the expense they incur because of the legal mandate the gvt put on them?

I kinda think the gvt has to help them MM...the hospitals can not take on this entire burden.

How about starting by not paying for an illegals health care ?
and if his plan doesn't cover illegals, what does he intened to do about them ?

 

[Care4all]

"Appeal to Mom" is one of the fallacies of logic, falling under the "bandwagon" category of logical fallacies. It goes like this:

Kid #1 and/or his friends are in trouble with Mom. Kid #1 appeals to Mom with, "But MOM, the other kid did it too!" and promptly earns himself a rap in the mouth.

It's never worked, even on Mom, and most intelligent, mature people give up this logical fallacy around age eight.

Because it's not about the "other kids."

Folks who employ this infantile fallacy of logic when it's to defend Obama fail to realize that in doing so, they completely undermine the "change" mantra. There was supposed to be change, therefore there shouldn't BE any valid comparisons to Bush or anything Bush ever said or did. Otherwise, it's more of the same instead of change.

"See? Booooosh did it too" is a classic example of the "Appeal to Mom" fallacy.

DO you understand? Booooosh isn't President anymore, Obama is. And if your defense of Obama is "Bush did it too" then, you're actually making an argument AGAINST Obama.

Clear?

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT PRESIDENT BUSH....(you still don't get it?)

I was showing you and your crowd of objectionists to Illegals receiving health care coverage under Obama, HAVE BEEN RECEIVING IT all ALONG...EVEN under President Bush....because it is the LAW to service all Emergencies in the Emergency rooms of Hospitals and our gvt subsidizes some of this expense... due to the legal mandate on the Hospitals.

If you do not understand this...let me know and I will try to give another shot at explaining it...

Care

Obama is trying to make it policy---along with a million other goofy ideas in his health care plan. Big difference

Really? Can you explain to me HOW?

Or are you just going lock step with the comfortable crowd on this one?

 

[dilloduck]

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT PRESIDENT BUSH....(you still don't get it?)

I was showing you and your crowd of objectionists to Illegals receiving health care coverage under Obama, HAVE BEEN RECEIVING IT all ALONG...EVEN under President Bush....because it is the LAW to service all Emergencies in the Emergency rooms of Hospitals and our gvt subsidizes some of this expense... due to the legal mandate on the Hospitals.

If you do not understand this...let me know and I will try to give another shot at explaining it...

Care

Obama is trying to make it policy---along with a million other goofy ideas in his health care plan. Big difference

Really? Can you explain to me HOW?

Or are you just going lock step with the comfortable crowd on this one?

Apparently you haven't been reading the posts that cite how illegals will be able to slip throught the loopholes-----how about the recent loophole they just had to close ?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The OP of this thread is also a tired old worn out and long ago shot down far-left talking point. It's also a false argument, what is known as a strawman:

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position

And that's exactly what you are doing, by trying to claim the "objectionists" EVER objected to emergency indigent care provided by hospitals!

NO ONE EVER HAS OBJECTED TO THAT!

 

[alan1]

Yes, just as Obama isn't paying for it...

It's the Law that Emergency Rooms treat all emergencies, as IT SHOULD BE.

But because of this unfunded mandate on the Hospitals, they decided to fund a portion of it, so to help the Hospital's forced Loss.

I disagree with your stance and I don't have a problem with this...not now and not under President Bush or all Presidents before him that had this measure in place.

I DO NOT believe that ANYONE should need to be CARDED to get help in an Emergency and I do not believe in a National ID card which it would take to have it any other way, never have...and never will!



Care

I have no problem with emergency rooms treating people (legal or illegal citizen status) for their emergency medical needs. I also have no problem with forcing those people to pay for their treatment. It's not my responsibility to pay for their treatment, it's theirs.

Same with the American citizens who did not have the means who could not afford it as well...force them to pay SOME HOW?

And don't have the gvt help the Emergency Rooms at all with the expense they incur because of the legal mandate the gvt put on them?

I kinda think the gvt has to help them MM...the hospitals can not take on this entire burden.

Neither can I.
You don't seem to understand that the government doesn't have any money to pay for things unless they take it from people like you and I. Why am I responsible for paying for my own health care and paying for the health care of somebody else? I don't have a problem paying for mine, it's the other people I shouldn't have to pay for, unless I choose to.
For the past 15+ years I have chosen to donate part of my income to Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center .
I'll make you a deal Care4all, if the government fails to pass a health care bill, I will double my annual donation to the Fred Hutchinson cancer research hospital. If they succeed in passing it, I will eliminate my voluntary charity to them. I'll assume that the government will pick up where I left off.

 

[Political Junky]

Fine those who hire illegal aliens.

 

[Care4all]

I just found this article...says the Senate is trying to put in stronger measures in to their bill...

Senate committee tackles illegal-immigrant healthcare concerns

...

Reporting from Los Angeles and Washington - Key members of the Senate Finance Committee moved Friday to quell the latest furor over President Obama's healthcare overhaul, discussing added identification and enforcement requirements intended to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving federal benefits.

Committee members ended their closed-door deliberations without reaching agreement on a response, but they are scheduled to work into the weekend.

The concern is whether the proposals being worked out by congressional Democrats with Obama's support would make benefits available directly or indirectly to people who are in the United States illegally.

The controversy centers primarily on plans to provide government funds to help low-income workers get affordable insurance coverage.

Though drafters of the evolving healthcare bills have been considering the issue for months, it was catapulted into the national spotlight Wednesday night during Obama's address to a joint session of Congress.

When the president said that his blueprint would not aid illegal immigrants, Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) shouted, "You lie!" Wilson has since apologized for his breach of congressional courtesy, but the episode touched off a vociferous debate over the issue.

Democrats note that both the House and Senate versions of the bill already contain language that specifically bars illegal immigrants from receiving federal help to purchase healthcare coverage.

....

Under the Democrats' plans, the government would subsidize the expansion of insurance coverage in two ways.

First, the Medicaid program, which covers healthcare for the poor, would be expanded to include those whose income is just above the poverty level. Since 2006, new participants in Medicaid have been required to prove that they are U.S. citizens or eligible legal residents by supplying a passport, a U.S. birth certificate or other official documents.

The verification rules would apply to the expanded Medicaid program under the Democrats' proposals.

(There is one major exception to rules preventing benefits for illegal immigrants. The government requires hospitals to provide care for emergency patients in severe pain, and in certain circumstances Medicaid will pay for poor patients' emergency care regardless of their immigration status.)

Second, the government, beginning in 2013, would subsidize insurance, including private policies, for low- and middle-income Americans who do not qualify for Medicaid. These subsidies are referred to as "affordability credits" in the House bill.

"Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States," the bill says.

...

(the House Committee) voted instead to have a future federal health official devise rules to prevent illegal immigrants from obtaining the insurance subsidies.
...

Sonal Ambegaokar, a lawyer for the National Immigration Law Center, said that verification provisions would add layers of unnecessary government red tape to a system that is already overly bureaucratic, and would keep low-income people who qualify for insurance, and who often don't have necessary documents at hand, from obtaining it.

"Don't we want to simplify the system?" Ambegaokar said. "We already have a lot of paperwork in the system, and I thought the goal of reform was to reduce administrative costs."

Ambegaokar said that anti-immigration forces were seeking to hijack the debate over healthcare reform. "Healthcare and immigration are really two broken systems, and people are frustrated," she said.

...

One congressional oversight committee found that a 2005 federal law requiring more extensive documentation of legal immigration status for Medicare recipients cost $16.6 million in new administrative expenses for six of nine states surveyed in 2009.

A 2007 study by the Government Accountability Office found that half of the 44 states surveyed said the new requirements had resulted in a decline in Medicare recipients, but most of those affected were believed to be citizens or eligible legal residents.

Senate committee tackles illegal-immigrant healthcare concerns -- latimes.com

 

[Midnight Marauder]

You're also guilty of employing what I personally call "The Necro Fallacy" by bringing up a long DEAD bullshit talking point that was KILLED by logic as soon as it was launched!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

HOW could you let him do that? Pay for the health care of illegals with our tax dollars for the LAST 8 YEARS?

explain!

go!

I know right, just another thing to add to the list of douchebaggery by bush. He was such a liberal when it came to spending and issues with illegal immigration.


Remember how bad a hit in the polls he got over immigration reform?

 

[Care4all]

I have no problem with emergency rooms treating people (legal or illegal citizen status) for their emergency medical needs. I also have no problem with forcing those people to pay for their treatment. It's not my responsibility to pay for their treatment, it's theirs.

Same with the American citizens who did not have the means who could not afford it as well...force them to pay SOME HOW?

And don't have the gvt help the Emergency Rooms at all with the expense they incur because of the legal mandate the gvt put on them?

I kinda think the gvt has to help them MM...the hospitals can not take on this entire burden.

Neither can I.
You don't seem to understand that the government doesn't have any money to pay for things unless they take it from people like you and I. Why am I responsible for paying for my own health care and paying for the health care of somebody else? I don't have a problem paying for mine, it's the other people I shouldn't have to pay for, unless I choose to.
For the past 15+ years I have chosen to donate part of my income to Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center .
I'll make you a deal Care4all, if the government fails to pass a health care bill, I will double my annual donation to the Fred Hutchinson cancer research hospital. If they succeed in passing it, I will eliminate my voluntary charity to them. I'll assume that the government will pick up where I left off.

Well, have your tax money go to Wars, and the Military Industrial Complex and the Banks and Financial and Insurance Corporations and the Oil companies security world wide or Halliburton and Blackwater and Faith Based Initiatives or whatever you feel justified in it going to and others that don't agree with your causes that support their tax money going elsewhere, such as helping the Hospitals pay for emergency room care for THOSE WHO CAN NOT AFFORD IT, and other things that they may believe in....?