Poll - What Does the US do to rescue the Maersk-Alabama Captain

[ReillyT]

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There are already protocols for just such a contengency... I'll not discuss them here... but what we're looking at here is an administration which has all the tools available to it, to rescue the Captain and shove a sovereign boot in the ass of Islamic Piracy.

This is old news, Muslims intentionally stripping free people of their rights and lives to make illicit profits... and feminized, worthless human beings appeasing them, thus encouraging more of the same.

CNN is even touting the perspective that Islamic Piracy is a: "Sound Business Model..." as if to say 'Sound business models commonly include stripping people of their rights and lives for the purposes of enriching special interests...'

It's idiocy of the first order and we can be certain that where the US Administration treats PIRATES WITH THE SAME, IF NOT MORE CONSIDERATION THAN THEY TREAT US BUSINESS... that there is very little good news in the near future for anyone that considers themselves an American.

Edit: Ravi would have LOVED to have advanced a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid response to this post, but lacking the slightest means to reason, she opted for a flaccid neg-rep which projected some irrelevant point regarding a hate of women.

BUT! I believe in giving credit where credit is DUE and it's clear to me as I am sure it is to everyone; that SHE HAS DONE THE BEST SHE CAN, Godbless'er; such flaccid efforts are a function of the impotent rage born of idiocy... wherein the leftist of this board are coming to understand that their attempts to post open arguments on the thread as futile, as they simply lack the means to reason... so they've begun to run to neg-rep and it is ADORABLE! Ravi will now receive 6 neg-reps from me for her efforts...

CONGRATS SIS! You've made an impression and you're now going to reap what you have sowed... Enjoy. __________________

You seem fixated on the word "flaccid." [giggle] [giggle]

 

[editec]

The case that now vexes the Obama administration involves Richard Phillips, the captain of an American cargo ship, who was taken hostage Wednesday after a failed hijacking attempt on his ship.

The Pentagon has dispatched naval firepower, and the FBI sent in hostage negotiators But Obama has remained silent on the standoff so far.

His top lieutenants have fired back with broad pledges to solve the problem of piracy in the region -- without providing detailed plans for doing so.

Attorney General Eric Holder said this week the United States will take whatever steps are needed to protect U.S. shipping interests against pirates, but he also said it is too early to tell what action the U.S. government might take against the pirates if they are captured.

Somali Pirates Hand Obama Foreign Policy Emergency With No Easy Solution - First 100 Days of Presidency - Politics FOXNews.com

We have an administration of weenies.

As usual, lots of pledges to "fix the problem" but when pressed, no details.

And then...and then..."too early to tell what action we might take if the pirates are captured?"

They are probably drafting an apology for Obama to give to the pirates.

A coastline on the Somalia side roughly the length of the US eastern Seaboard. [Not even discussing Yemen-based pirates]

Loose coalitions of criminals set in a chaotic area that has already been the subject of a failed UN and US military mission.

Rising Islamic tensions throughout the area.

US, European and Russian naval ships currently in the Gulf having limited if any effect.

It doesn't seem like such an easy problem to solve. We could send the entire US naval forces into this area to prevent the hijacking of ships from all over the world, but that doesn't seem cost effective from the point of view of US shipping interests. What are the details of your solution?

Nice to see that we've got another thinking poster on board.

My guess is they'' pay the ransom.

This isn't the first ship's office that's been held for ransom and returned safely after the pirates were paid off.

Maybe the time to be tough guys should AFTER this poor sod gets home safe, eh?

Or does suggesting something so sane as actually caring about the outcome for the hostage make me a lily-livered liberal?

I still want to know how long this Somalian piracy has been a problem and what, if anything (other than they realized they could do it, caused these people to start doing this.

I mean I know that Somalia is one of those Libertarian-ruled places where government doesn't interfer with people's freedoms and what-not, but that place has been a mess for a long time.

When did all this piracy routine really start?

 

[Ravi]

Join Date: Aug 2008
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There are already protocols for just such a contengency... I'll not discuss them here... but what we're looking at here is an administration which has all the tools available to it, to rescue the Captain and shove a sovereign boot in the ass of Islamic Piracy.

This is old news, Muslims intentionally stripping free people of their rights and lives to make illicit profits... and feminized, worthless human beings appeasing them, thus encouraging more of the same.

CNN is even touting the perspective that Islamic Piracy is a: "Sound Business Model..." as if to say 'Sound business models commonly include stripping people of their rights and lives for the purposes of enriching special interests...'

It's idiocy of the first order and we can be certain that where the US Administration treats PIRATES WITH THE SAME, IF NOT MORE CONSIDERATION THAN THEY TREAT US BUSINESS... that there is very little good news in the near future for anyone that considers themselves an American.

Edit: Ravi would have LOVED to have advanced a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid response to this post, but lacking the slightest means to reason, she opted for a flaccid neg-rep which projected some irrelevant point regarding a hate of women.

BUT! I believe in giving credit where credit is DUE and it's clear to me as I am sure it is to everyone; that SHE HAS DONE THE BEST SHE CAN, Godbless'er; such flaccid efforts are a function of the impotent rage born of idiocy... wherein the leftist of this board are coming to understand that their attempts to post open arguments on the thread as futile, as they simply lack the means to reason... so they've begun to run to neg-rep and it is ADORABLE! Ravi will now receive 6 neg-reps from me for her efforts...

CONGRATS SIS! You've made an impression and you're now going to reap what you have sowed... Enjoy. __________________

heh, heh, heh...what a coward you are, Pubic.

 

[Gunny]

The case that now vexes the Obama administration involves Richard Phillips, the captain of an American cargo ship, who was taken hostage Wednesday after a failed hijacking attempt on his ship.

The Pentagon has dispatched naval firepower, and the FBI sent in hostage negotiators But Obama has remained silent on the standoff so far.

His top lieutenants have fired back with broad pledges to solve the problem of piracy in the region -- without providing detailed plans for doing so.

Attorney General Eric Holder said this week the United States will take whatever steps are needed to protect U.S. shipping interests against pirates, but he also said it is too early to tell what action the U.S. government might take against the pirates if they are captured.

Somali Pirates Hand Obama Foreign Policy Emergency With No Easy Solution - First 100 Days of Presidency - Politics FOXNews.com

We have an administration of weenies.

As usual, lots of pledges to "fix the problem" but when pressed, no details.

And then...and then..."too early to tell what action we might take if the pirates are captured?"

They are probably drafting an apology for Obama to give to the pirates.

A coastline on the Somalia side roughly the length of the US eastern Seaboard. [Not even discussing Yemen-based pirates]

Loose coalitions of criminals set in a chaotic area that has already been the subject of a failed UN and US military mission.

Rising Islamic tensions throughout the area.

US, European and Russian naval ships currently in the Gulf having limited if any effect.

It doesn't seem like such an easy problem to solve. We could send the entire US naval forces into this area to prevent the hijacking of ships from all over the world, but that doesn't seem cost effective from the point of view of US shipping interests. What are the details of your solution?

Interesting. The second line in the Marines hymn is "... to the shores of Tripoli." Barbary pirates were doing the same thing. They sent Marines. This is the first incident since then.

Obviously, Jefferson and Madison had a solution.

 

[Gunny]

US forces attempted to approach the vessel today and were fired upon and retreated.

Source: Pirates repel sailors attempting to reach captain - CNN.com

Nice. One-sided, as usual. The squids didn't return fire. That wasn't a serious rescue attempt. It was a recon to gauge reaction.

If they decide to actually try and liberate the hostage by force, they won't be sending any damned boatload of Sailors in a full-frontal assault.

SEALS in rubber rafts at night would be more like it.

 

[manu1959]

how about you sedn some seals to drill holes in the bottom of the boat and start it sinking....they all have to go into the water......seals pul them under and kill them rescue the captain.....carpet bomb the pirate home base.....

 

[dilloduck]

how about you sedn some seals to drill holes in the bottom of the boat and start it sinking....they all have to go into the water......seals pul them under and kill them rescue the captain.....carpet bomb the pirate home base.....

too risky---the second they see a leak they shoot the captain in the head. Bad PR

 

[Gunny]

The Captain who commanded the Maersk Alabama volunteered to be taken hostage to save his crew in a characteristic act of courage, his family says. The captain’s brother is now in command of the Maersk Alabama, and captain Richard Phillips is being held in a “life-boat by the pirates; a small, orange, enclosed craft.

At least a dozen ships and more than 200 crew members are currently being held by pirates off the coast of Somalia. It’s believed in an effort to provide assistance to the pirates holding Captain Phillips, at least four of these pirate-held ships, with their crews as prisoners, are heading toward the lifeboat, possibly to provide transportation for them and Phillips to another location while waiting for the ransom, or as cover for the pirates once a ransom is paid.

Just after Captain Phillip’s failed attempt to escape, French commandos stormed a yacht held by Somali and one male hostage and two pirates were killed in the assault. It was reported three other adults and a three-year-old child were rescued.

This is the first pirating of a US flagged ship since the days of the Barbary Wars, the first war waged by the United States, and involved the US Navy and the US Marine Corps against the “Barbary Pirates”, behaving then the way they are now.

We assume that our ships will prevent these rogue and pirated ships from getting very close to the pirates holding the captain, or perhaps there will be some other strategy.
The “life-boat” he and the pirates are in is a small 28-foot, orange enclosed emergency type craft, without any visible hatches or portholes. It carries provisions for 34 people for about ten days.

But what then; or what do we do in the meantime?
What is the best way to conclude this sorry affair, and get the ship’s captain back?

We can only pray that the whole question will be successfully rendered moot before the week-end is out.


Here’s an ABC link with a U-Tube Video imbedded
ship alabama and pirates "life-boat" - Google News

I'd have two SEAL teams sitting in their birds, pay the ransom, get the captain back, then wipe those fuckers off the planet.

The US didn't send this much muscle in to just look. A lot of punch in this, plus the Special Ops that have been sent in.
USS Boxer (LHD 4)

Plus the small guys.
USS Bainbridge (DDG 96)
USS Halyburton (FFG 40)

The USS Boxer is an LHD-4. It was the last ship I deployed on before I retired. Where the Boxer goes in the Gulf, so go two LPDs and a guided missile cruiser. There are roughly 2500 Marines in a MEU, and there IS a Recon Plt. We used to practice Visual Boarding Search and Seizure (VBSS) until I was absolutely sick of it.

However, it works like a charm.

 

[manu1959]

how about you sedn some seals to drill holes in the bottom of the boat and start it sinking....they all have to go into the water......seals pul them under and kill them rescue the captain.....carpet bomb the pirate home base.....

too risky---the second they see a leak they shoot the captain in the head. Bad PR

then they better give these dudes the money......

 

[Gunny]

This whole sit has me sick. I can't believe we haven't sent in Spec Op or Marines to end this crap. I would be sorry if the Cap died, but he put himself in that position knowing what it could mean, so it would be a death with honor if it happened. I would be happy to die if I were in his position if it meant the pirates would get their justice. I know that sounds harsh, but some things ARE worth dying for.

I think you blow them all away and send the captain's widow a flag and a medal of honor.

Teach those goddamn pirates who's boss!

I assume you're being a smartass. The pirates have to deal in good faith or they have no bargaining leverage.

We don't. We can promise them whatever and as soon as the hostage is freed, blow them off the ocean.

We haven't had a ship attacked by pirates since the 1800s. If we pay and allow these pirates to go free, every US vessel hereafter will be a target.

 

[Gunny]

No. 1: Rests on the idea that we can easily identify and distinguish the pirates from any other small ship off of these thousands of miles of coastline. If it were that easy, I would guess that it would already be done.

No. 2: Just identify the training grounds and kill them? That sounds easy. How has it worked in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Columbia or anywhere else there are rebel training groups?

We sanctioned the Ethiopian army to go into Somalia to root out the extremists and they couldn't do it over the course of a year. Why would you think we could do it so easily? Perhaps we would just fuel the legitimacy of these groups vis-a-vis the more moderate political forces in Somalia?

Your solutions sound easy and simple. If it looks to good to be true, it probably is.

1. Our jets can overfly the small ships to identify if they are pirates or not.

2. The administration speaks as if they know where some of the extremist groups already are. Problem is two-fold. Bushn sanctioned at least 5 strikes in Somalia. BO would do anything (rather, do nothing) to not look like Bush. Also, there are Americans and Canadians who belong to the groups. That is why the dilemma of whether or not to take them out.

3. The Ethiopian army is defenseless. That is why we are where we are.

4. Finding where the pirates live isn't difficult. Reporters have already visited the towns.

It really is simple. All "someone" needs to do is dedicate the assets.

This conversation is suffering from a knowledge deficit. I would guess that there are thousands of small ships that set off from Somalia each day. It would be impracticable for US jets to overfly all of these. However, I don't know this. I just guess it. I am guessing you are in the same boat (no pun intended).

Bush did sanction strikes into Somalia. He also sanctioned the entry of the Ethiopian army. In the intervening period, Al-Shabab has gotten stronger and the government of Somalia (which was always a joke) is now confined to about 3 square blocks. This suggests that this strategy didn't produce the intended results.

The Ethiopian army is not defenseless. It has the strongest army in the Horn and has been engaged in nearly two decades of constant conflict with its neighbors. It isn't the US army, but as the armies of developing countries go, it is pretty strong.

We know where they are. We also had a pretty good idea where Adid was, but military force in extremely hostile and potentially explosive urban centers carries its own risks. The generation of additional support for groups like Shabab being just one political one.

Obama hasn't had qualms about continuing the Bush policy of strikes into Pakistan or using the states secret privilege. I don't know why you would attribute his actions here to a desire to be other than Bush.

Strong or not, the Ethiopian army is not in our league. This is making a mountain out of a molehill.

It's a lifeboat with pirates and a hostage. Pay them, get thet hostage back, then kill them REGARDLESS where they make landfall.

And let someone's rooty-poot Navy come out and challenge the U S Navy. I'd love to have all 30 seconds of THAT on video.

 

[Annie]

This whole sit has me sick. I can't believe we haven't sent in Spec Op or Marines to end this crap. I would be sorry if the Cap died, but he put himself in that position knowing what it could mean, so it would be a death with honor if it happened. I would be happy to die if I were in his position if it meant the pirates would get their justice. I know that sounds harsh, but some things ARE worth dying for.

I think you blow them all away and send the captain's widow a flag and a medal of honor.

Teach those goddamn pirates who's boss!

I assume you're being a smartass. The pirates have to deal in good faith or they have no bargaining leverage.

We don't. We can promise them whatever and as soon as the hostage is freed, blow them off the ocean.

We haven't had a ship attacked by pirates since the 1800s. If we pay and allow these pirates to go free, every US vessel hereafter will be a target.

The pirates reneged on returning the Captain when they had a deal to swap him for a pirate. The ship let the pirate go, not so the captain.

Pirates hold captain hostage as U.S. ship sails away - Los Angeles Times

...In a telephone interview, a pirate based in the central Somali city of Harardhere said pirates who claimed to be holding Phillips were part of a group of seven that attacked the Maersk Alabama shortly after hijacking a German vessel in the same area. The twin attacks left them short-handed, so four remained on the U.S.-flagged vessel and the rest went with the German boat, he said.

As three pirates held Phillips at gunpoint on one part of the Maersk Alabama, a fourth guarded the crew with a machine gun, said the man, who did not want to be identified. His account could not be confirmed, but elements matched information the crew relayed to family members by telephone.

"One of the crew managed to get the pirate's gun away from him and then they held that pirate captive," the man said. The other three pirates fled in the lifeboat with Phillips.

The pirates offered to exchange the captain for the pirate and the machine gun, but U.S. crew members refused to give up the weapon, the man said.

Eventually the pirates agreed to swap the men only, but as the captain was attempting to climb back aboard, the captive pirate broke free and jumped into the water. The pirates reneged on the deal, prevented the captain from boarding the ship and picked up their colleague in the water, the man said.
...

 

[Gunny]

Join Date: Aug 2008
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There are already protocols for just such a contengency... I'll not discuss them here... but what we're looking at here is an administration which has all the tools available to it, to rescue the Captain and shove a sovereign boot in the ass of Islamic Piracy.

This is old news, Muslims intentionally stripping free people of their rights and lives to make illicit profits... and feminized, worthless human beings appeasing them, thus encouraging more of the same.

CNN is even touting the perspective that Islamic Piracy is a: "Sound Business Model..." as if to say 'Sound business models commonly include stripping people of their rights and lives for the purposes of enriching special interests...'

It's idiocy of the first order and we can be certain that where the US Administration treats PIRATES WITH THE SAME, IF NOT MORE CONSIDERATION THAN THEY TREAT US BUSINESS... that there is very little good news in the near future for anyone that considers themselves an American.

Edit: Ravi would have LOVED to have advanced a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid response to this post, but lacking the slightest means to reason, she opted for a flaccid neg-rep which projected some irrelevant point regarding a hate of women.

BUT! I believe in giving credit where credit is DUE and it's clear to me as I am sure it is to everyone; that SHE HAS DONE THE BEST SHE CAN, Godbless'er; such flaccid efforts are a function of the impotent rage born of idiocy... wherein the leftist of this board are coming to understand that their attempts to post open arguments on the thread as futile, as they simply lack the means to reason... so they've begun to run to neg-rep and it is ADORABLE! Ravi will now receive 6 neg-reps from me for her efforts...

CONGRATS SIS! You've made an impression and you're now going to reap what you have sowed... Enjoy. __________________

As much as it causes me internal pain to agree with Ravi, you suck.

Bad enough you have to do it in regular font. Those big block letters make it easier for you, or what?

 

[Gunny]

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,715
Thanks: 269
Thanked 46 Times in 38 Posts
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There are already protocols for just such a contengency... I'll not discuss them here... but what we're looking at here is an administration which has all the tools available to it, to rescue the Captain and shove a sovereign boot in the ass of Islamic Piracy.

This is old news, Muslims intentionally stripping free people of their rights and lives to make illicit profits... and feminized, worthless human beings appeasing them, thus encouraging more of the same.

CNN is even touting the perspective that Islamic Piracy is a: "Sound Business Model..." as if to say 'Sound business models commonly include stripping people of their rights and lives for the purposes of enriching special interests...'

It's idiocy of the first order and we can be certain that where the US Administration treats PIRATES WITH THE SAME, IF NOT MORE CONSIDERATION THAN THEY TREAT US BUSINESS... that there is very little good news in the near future for anyone that considers themselves an American.

Edit: Ravi would have LOVED to have advanced a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid response to this post, but lacking the slightest means to reason, she opted for a flaccid neg-rep which projected some irrelevant point regarding a hate of women.

BUT! I believe in giving credit where credit is DUE and it's clear to me as I am sure it is to everyone; that SHE HAS DONE THE BEST SHE CAN, Godbless'er; such flaccid efforts are a function of the impotent rage born of idiocy... wherein the leftist of this board are coming to understand that their attempts to post open arguments on the thread as futile, as they simply lack the means to reason... so they've begun to run to neg-rep and it is ADORABLE! Ravi will now receive 6 neg-reps from me for her efforts...

CONGRATS SIS! You've made an impression and you're now going to reap what you have sowed... Enjoy. __________________

Idiots generally rely on clapping hands, odd little faces or oversized bold letters.

You compounded oversized letters with exciting red font.

You are a fucking moron.

You betcha some rep came for this.

 

[Gunny]

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,715
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Thanked 46 Times in 38 Posts
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There are already protocols for just such a contengency... I'll not discuss them here... but what we're looking at here is an administration which has all the tools available to it, to rescue the Captain and shove a sovereign boot in the ass of Islamic Piracy.

This is old news, Muslims intentionally stripping free people of their rights and lives to make illicit profits... and feminized, worthless human beings appeasing them, thus encouraging more of the same.

CNN is even touting the perspective that Islamic Piracy is a: "Sound Business Model..." as if to say 'Sound business models commonly include stripping people of their rights and lives for the purposes of enriching special interests...'

It's idiocy of the first order and we can be certain that where the US Administration treats PIRATES WITH THE SAME, IF NOT MORE CONSIDERATION THAN THEY TREAT US BUSINESS... that there is very little good news in the near future for anyone that considers themselves an American.

Edit: Ravi would have LOVED to have advanced a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid response to this post, but lacking the slightest means to reason, she opted for a flaccid neg-rep which projected some irrelevant point regarding a hate of women.

BUT! I believe in giving credit where credit is DUE and it's clear to me as I am sure it is to everyone; that SHE HAS DONE THE BEST SHE CAN, Godbless'er; such flaccid efforts are a function of the impotent rage born of idiocy... wherein the leftist of this board are coming to understand that their attempts to post open arguments on the thread as futile, as they simply lack the means to reason... so they've begun to run to neg-rep and it is ADORABLE! Ravi will now receive 6 neg-reps from me for her efforts...

CONGRATS SIS! You've made an impression and you're now going to reap what you have sowed... Enjoy. __________________

You seem fixated on the word "flaccid." [giggle] [giggle]

It's a constant state for him. That's why he uses the oversized letters. He's compensating at our expense.

 

[FactFinder]

Let the SeaBees get them.

Longer term have an international flotilla invade the Somali coast.

 

[garyd]

Unfortunately virtually everything he said is essentially correct. We have numerous photo recon assets in the region. We could at need target virtually every small boat that leaves the Somalia coast at will. And can differentiate from 250 miles between a fishing rod and an AK. We are that good. You pay ransoms you will have pirates. You make it clear via an appropriate object lesson that the cost of piracy will be expensive not just for the pirates but those who support them and the piracy will begin to go away. Pirates are in it for the money not just for ideology.

By the way had Clinton been willing to give the boots on the ground the armored support they requested we likely would not currently be having to deal with this problem.

 

[Gunny]

Let the SeaBees get them.

Longer term have an international flotilla invade the Somali coast.

Nice. You want a construction crew to free a hostage.

 

[Gunny]

Unfortunately virtually everything he said is essentially correct. We have numerous photo recon assets in the region. We could at need target virtually every small boat that leaves the Somalia coast at will. And can differentiate from 250 miles between a fishing rod and an AK. We are that good. You pay ransoms you will have pirates. You make it clear via an appropriate object lesson that the cost of piracy will be expensive not just for the pirates but those who support them and the piracy will begin to go away. Pirates are in it for the money not just for ideology.

By the way had Clinton been willing to give the boots on the ground the armored support they requested we likely would not currently be having to deal with this problem.

This is a painful thread for me. First I have to agree with Ravi, now defend Clinton. Clinton took no proactive action against the pirates, that is true. However, my last deployment we did a little patrolling the Gulf of Aden which hosed our port call schedule. Clinton was CinC at the time.

 

[FactFinder]

Let the SeaBees get them.

Longer term have an international flotilla invade the Somali coast.

Nice. You want a construction crew to free a hostage.

I meant Seals but the Sea Bees could probably handle it.