policy makers and commentators on where U.S. interests liue

[amity1844]

U.S. POLICY RECONSIDERED

I am hoping we can have a constructive discussion about American policy shift away from Israel.
There are so many sources, but I chose four for their representation of different areas of policy concern. Please watch and comment.

Here are four different looks at where the U.S.' interests lie.

U.S. policy makers take a second look:


U.S. political observers discuss Netanyahu's "nuclear blackmail":


Michael Scheuer, former head of al-Qaeda unit of the CIA:


Falling out of love:


BTW, I have no input into foreign policy any more than anyone else does.
I'm just a concerned citizen LIKE I HOPE YOU ARE!

 

[Sally]

U.S. POLICY RECONSIDERED

I am hoping we can have a constructive discussion about American policy shift away from Israel.
There are so many sources, but I chose four for their representation of different areas of policy concern. Please watch and comment.

Here are four different looks at where the U.S.' interests lie.

U.S. policy makers take a second look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocj2ejJLTbg

U.S. political observers discuss Netanyahu's "nuclear blackmail":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nLwmzOspBQ

Michael Scheuer, former head of al-Qaeda unit of the CIA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQQlQ66bVg

Falling out of love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZzC1dnvVA

BTW, I have no input into foreign policy any more than anyone else does.
I'm just a concerned citizen LIKE I HOPE YOU ARE!

But, Amity, you are putting up videos that other like you have pulled up before and they are all videos of people who think just like you do. Paul Findley???

 

[MHunterB]

OK, if you want to have a serious discussion - then how about presenting actual CURRENT, or even potential, policy makers and experts?

And please, stop pimping the stuff from 'The Vlad Pukin Show', aka 'RT'. I thought you disapproved of propaganda?

 

[westwall]

OK, if you want to have a serious discussion - then how about presenting actual CURRENT, or even potential, policy makers and experts?

And please, stop pimping the stuff from 'The Vlad Pukin Show', aka 'RT'. I thought you disapproved of propaganda?

Amity IS a propagandist. That is very clear.

 

[Phoenall]

U.S. POLICY RECONSIDERED

I am hoping we can have a constructive discussion about American policy shift away from Israel.
There are so many sources, but I chose four for their representation of different areas of policy concern. Please watch and comment.

Here are four different looks at where the U.S.' interests lie.

U.S. policy makers take a second look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocj2ejJLTbg

U.S. political observers discuss Netanyahu's "nuclear blackmail":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nLwmzOspBQ

Michael Scheuer, former head of al-Qaeda unit of the CIA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQQlQ66bVg

Falling out of love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZzC1dnvVA

BTW, I have no input into foreign policy any more than anyone else does.
I'm just a concerned citizen LIKE I HOPE YOU ARE!

It shows that you are grasping at straws and unable to understand that a very tiny minority of Americans are against Israel, and they happen to be EXTREMIST JEW HATERS and RABID ANTI SEMITES. Someone has scoured the internet for you looking for video's that support your POV and have managed to come up with 4. Yet there are thousands upon thousands of videos in support of Israel that you have ignored in your haste to post your JEW HATRED.

If you were a concerned citizen then you would be asking about the massive amounts of American tax payers dollars that are being funnelled into supporting Palestinian terrorism. How the P.A. spends more of its aid money on convicted terrorists and their families than they spend on keeping their citizens fed and clothed, more spent on politicians private swimming pools than is spent on clean drinking water. The latest mug to come along is spending enough money to provide 1 days power a week and the P.A. Is blaming Israel for the lack of power the rest of the time.

If anything the rest of the world is now seeing Palestine in a true light and are turning against them. They saw them refuse to talk with Israel and place illegal pre conditions in place, now they have seen them kidnapping Israeli children and relishing the fact. Then the ever increasing terrorist attacks on Israeli children which they think is acceptable.

 

[Lipush]

OK, if you want to have a serious discussion - then how about presenting actual CURRENT, or even potential, policy makers and experts?

And please, stop pimping the stuff from 'The Vlad Pukin Show', aka 'RT'. I thought you disapproved of propaganda?

My thoughts exactly

 

[flacaltenn]

Moderation Message:

Moved to promote a larger discussion of US Foreign
Policy interests as they concern Israel.

FlaCalTenn

 

[Kosh]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YK7UGytvs8]Gene Simmons tells Obama he has no F_cking Idea. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[tinydancer]

I know in this day and age it seems impossible that someone on the planet is on dial up.

True story. That's me. One of the last you tubes I tried to upload was of Zakk Wylde and it took 3 days mm'kay?

Can I have a breakdown on what was said in the OP?

 

[flacaltenn]

Gene Simmons tells Obama he has no F_cking Idea. - YouTube

There's a candidate for Secty. of State -- or MAYBE UN ambassador...

 

[Kosh]

Gene Simmons tells Obama he has no F_cking Idea. - YouTube

There's a candidate for Secty. of State -- or MAYBE UN ambassador...

Maybe! However I doubt that many of the far left would like his pro Israel attitude.

 

[MHunterB]

I know in this day and age it seems impossible that someone on the planet is on dial up.

True story. That's me. One of the last you tubes I tried to upload was of Zakk Wylde and it took 3 days mm'kay?

Can I have a breakdown on what was said in the OP?

"



"

That's pretty much it, TD.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Gene Simmons tells Obama he has no F_cking Idea. - YouTube

There's a candidate for Secty. of State -- or MAYBE UN ambassador...

Maybe! However I doubt that many of the far left would like his pro Israel attitude.

They're used to Zionists, this place is lousy with them. Jesus can't return otherwise remember. I wonder what good old Gene thinks about the Anti-Zionist Jews?

http://ijsn.net/

 

[Kosh]

I notice that the far left has avoid this thread as their far left leader does not support Israel, so why would they?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I notice that the far left has avoid this thread as their far left leader does not support Israel, so why would they?

And what leader is that?

 

[MACAULAY]

I think that the Israelis are the only civilized people in the whole area; that they are our friends and staunch allies (only the English, the Canadians, and the Australians might be moreso); that a solemn Treaty binds us to their defense; and that there was never a question that we would honor that Treaty, or many others we have made with many allies....until Barak Obama became President.

And that now...no friend can rely on us anywhere in the world; which naturally emboldens our enemies...and that Israel has suddenly become a pariah in all the sheikh enclaves of the rotting cities of the North and California where all the Democratic money and elitism gathers to applaud their affirmative action President...no matter what he does.

Iran will have a nuclear bomb by the time Obama leaves office. Contrary to what is believed by the people who have fallen under the spell of this strange man's rhetoric, Iran has not fallen under the same spell, and it has not given up its dream of a nuclear bomb into which it has poured much much treasure, and as soon as it gets one, they are going to announce it by threatening to use it on Israel.

And how can anyone know what Allah is liable to tell an Ayatollah to do next? It could be a huge and sudden contribution to Global Warming.

This is a huge problem for Israel...and it should be one for Israel's ally, America, but Obama has simply walked away from them.

And, amazingly, so have the Jews in America. Not a peep out of them...from which we conclude that they are better Democrats than Jews.

This situation with Israel is just one of many many things that make it seem like we have been living in the Twi-Light Zone for the last 6 years.

 

[amity1844]

OK, if you want to have a serious discussion - then how about presenting actual CURRENT, or even potential, policy makers and experts?

And please, stop pimping the stuff from 'The Vlad Pukin Show', aka 'RT'. I thought you disapproved of propaganda?

I have no idea who Vlad Putkin is and don't care. The interviewees are all credible and what they are saying is credible, that's all I care about.

 

[amity1844]

I think that the Israelis are the only civilized people in the whole area; that they are our friends and staunch allies (only the English, the Canadians, and the Australians might be moreso); that a solemn Treaty binds us to their defense; and that there was never a question that we would honor that Treaty, or many others we have made with many allies....until Barak Obama became President.

And that now...no friend can rely on us anywhere in the world; which naturally emboldens our enemies...and that Israel has suddenly become a pariah in all the sheikh enclaves of the rotting cities of the North and California where all the Democratic money and elitism gathers to applaud their affirmative action President...no matter what he does.

Iran will have a nuclear bomb by the time Obama leaves office. Contrary to what is believed by the people who have fallen under the spell of this strange man's rhetoric, Iran has not fallen under the same spell, and it has not given up its dream of a nuclear bomb into which it has poured much much treasure, and as soon as it gets one, they are going to announce it by threatening to use it on Israel.

And how can anyone know what Allah is liable to tell an Ayatollah to do next? It could be a huge and sudden contribution to Global Warming.

This is a huge problem for Israel...and it should be one for Israel's ally, America, but Obama has simply walked away from them.

And, amazingly, so have the Jews in America. Not a peep out of them...from which we conclude that they are better Democrats than Jews.

This situation with Israel is just one of many many things that make it seem like we have been living in the Twi-Light Zone for the last 6 years.

Here is a condensation and re-edit of a couple of posts elsewhere.

Alliances are fragile things. We may not be allies one day in the not too far distant future. Israel is taking the U.S. for granted without LISTENING to us and considering U.S. interests.

But we can see the direction the American government's view of Israeli actions is trending , to wit: Outta there as fast as we can if Israel doesn't start cleaning up its act... We don't need more enemies, and we don't want to be associated with what Israel is doing. This has been trending for a long time, and everything I have said was already being discussed when I was an undergraduate, too.

I think Israel has had American support (political and financial and in every other sense) for a very long time. In large part this has been because of the pro-Israel lobby (Jewish and non-Jewish). Israel feels secure and pretty much appears to take the U.S. for granted, and the only question has been "how much more can we get in this upcoming agreement?"

But I don't think that American support is a safe bet for Israel anymore at all, and here's why.

Firstly, over the few decades since Israel was established there has gradually been a shift in the way foreign policy issues are decided. Basically, it has been realized that foreign policy needs to be de-politicized. That means removed from the realm of electoral politics and put into the hands of career experts who understand what is at stake and what the true issues are, and will not be swayed so much by public emotion. And the lifers at the State Dept and CIA don't really give a flip whether Congressman Whozits gets re-elected or not, they are basing their decisions on fully pragmatic considerations.

So the issues as perceived by policy analysts have changed quite a bit over the span of Israel's existence. Back through the 40s, 50s, and 60s the Issue, the big Issue, was communism. This worked to Israel's advantage because the U.S. wanted a secure outpost to potentially launch operations against communist powers or those aligned with them. Israel was moderate, pretty firmly committed to capitalism, had a thriving modern economy unlike the rest of the middle east, etc. Israel looked like the perfect ally. The Palestinians, as leftists who had virtually NO economy, tended to be on the wrong side of the communism issue, were virtually UNKNOWN as a people thanks to Israeli disinformation and the general fact that the victors write the history. And so supporting Israel made the U.S. look good in Europe and the rest of the world (which was still largely colonialist up until the 1960s anyway). Israel was the liberals' choice.

Now the ideological war is over. Communism and communist countries are no longer perceived as much of a threat. Meanwhile, the big divisive issue, the axis along which everything is split, is now Islamic militancy. Communism/capitalism had little to do with the Israel/Palestine issue, but Islamic militancy has A LOT to do with Palestine/Israel. The U.S. does not necessarily LIKE Islamic militants of course, but as far as dealing with Islamic militancy in a constructive way, the U.S. knows its handling of Palestine/Israel issue is paramount.

In addition, the Palestinians have done so much right and so well, virtually the entire no-longer-colonialist-dominated world is now behind them. All those countries that have gained their independence within the last generation or two or three can perfectly well identify with the Palestinians and the fact that they have been denied self determination for two millenia!

One can see the drama played out in the United Nations and other venues frequently: The U.S. is often/usually the only supporter Israel has got. And everyone else is getting increasingly irritated by it.

The U.S. has spent a lot of money on Israel and it is increasingly looking like we aren't getting anything good for our money. What the U.S. wants for its money AT A MINIMUM is control over the situation that is jeopardizing the U.S.'s standing on the world stage. And instead of being a prudent ally and trying to find some way to achieve more limited goals in order to avoid embarrassing the U.S., Israel just keeps plowing pigheadedly along like a giant bulldozer, as if it doesn't need to answer to anyone. This attitude is so often voiced by you all on this forum. Israel does things that it KNOWS the U.S. doesn't like, such as the West Bank settlements, bulldozing peoples' homes in public, collective punishments, HUGE overkill in Gaza, shooting unarmed civilians in public, while firing at flotillas of relief boats, running over they-don't-know-who with their bulldozers, breaking peoples' arms in public, torturing, holding gigantic segments of the subject population in administrative detention .... Israel has gone over the edge into insanity. And no matter how many times you say you just have an animal control problem, Israel appears BRUTAL beyond what this very brutal world is willing to tolerate. And all NOT in the interests of survival, no, but in the service of some ends that the U.S. finds pretty questionable in and of themselves, such as acquiring additional territory in contravention of international law and suppressing resistance and dissent while crippling the capitalist economies of the West Bank and Gaza.

And so it looks like Israel is turning into another Vietnam in the sense that it is an intractable problem that isn't amenable to a military solution, and that has a HUGE public relations cost for the U.S. around the world that isn't going to go away. Israel applies 100% maximum violence and force nearly all the time in a war it can never win. It is a lose/lose proposition for the U.S. as Israel's supporter.

SO, it is increasingly argued by those in the know that the U.S. needs to either gather some control over this situation by any and all means necessary, or at a minimum dump Israel like a hot rock and forswear any involvement, and the VAST majority of our foreign policy problems will evaporate overnight as we begin to enjoy again the world-wide respect and influence we once had again.

Foreign policy is almost NEVER about doing the right thing. There is always a level-headed calculation. If it was about doing the right thing then the U.S. would have supported the Palestinians AT LEAST from the Carter administration forward, for since that time they have clearly known what the "right thing to do" has been.

 

[MACAULAY]

Everything is about doing the Right Thing.

You have given the Palestinian position. No thanks.

Israel is fighting for its life in a Land of Lonatics and Barbarians. Obama is acting against their interest, which is in Survival. You are damn right that they are going to do what they think best to save themselves, in lieu of what might make Barak Obama look good.

By the way, I have heard that the Philistines in the Bible are the same as the Palestinians today...in pretty much the same place the Philistines were. Makes sense. Is it true?

If so, then they and the Jews have been at it for about 4000 years. I don't see any reason for the US to jump into that mess now.

We need to concentrate on the real threat---the barbaric tribe that is about to get a nuclear weapon.

 

[amity1844]

Excuse moi, Israel is a spoiled brat among nations and simply the biggest bully on the block in the middle east, and that is how it conducts itself.

I am sure Palestinians and modern Jews are both descended in part from the Philistines, but modern genetic research in the form of a joint study between Hebrew University and Hadassah Hospital has revealed that Palestinians are approximately 85% descended from the ancient Jews of the post-Roman era.