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Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.Before anyone starts whining, yes, this is one sided. But if the officer was aware of this boys condition he should be brought up on criminal charges. There is no excuse for this if it is accurate.
Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teenager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.
Pamela Ford says her "mentally challenged/handicapped" son Jesse Kersey, 17, was riding his bike near his Dayton home when Officer Willie Hooper stopped him and tried to talk to him.
The mom says that "Prior to the incident described below, defendant Hooper knew Jesse and was aware that Jesse was mentally challenged/handicapped and a minor child."
Nonetheless, Ford says, Hooper "apparently took Jesse's speech impediment for disrespect ... [and] began yelling at Jesse and after Jesse attempted to communicate with him[.] Jesse, being a minor and mentally challenged/handicapped, turned and rode his bike back to his home in an attempt to ask his mother, Ford, to help him communicate with defendant Cooper," according to the complaint in Montgomery County Court.
Courthouse News Service
There are bad cops out there. Not necessarily crooked but below average, and everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like one.
Before we all jump against the police remember what they deal with every day.
My father once told me "son, don't be smarting off or looking threatening to no cops. Especially little tough guy cops or broads. They will just haul off and shoot your big ass"
Really decent advice. At least now there are tazers and pepper sprays.
Pre teens and teenagers, hell everyone, should have to watch that cops show two hours a week. Just to see the world through their eyes would help prevent these situations.
There are bad cops out there. Not necessarily crooked but below average, and everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like one.
Before we all jump against the police remember what they deal with every day.
My father once told me "son, don't be smarting off or looking threatening to no cops. Especially little tough guy cops or broads. They will just haul off and shoot your big ass"
Really decent advice. At least now there are tazers and pepper sprays.
Pre teens and teenagers, hell everyone, should have to watch that cops show two hours a week. Just to see the world through their eyes would help prevent these situations.
Are you saying it is fine for police to be abusive an violent as long as they do not actually kill anyone?
Police are supposed to be better than this all the time. I mouth off to cops all the time, and will keep doing it in the future. I know what it is like for them, and I expect them to be able to handle it and still be polite to the assholes. If they can't they should go out and find another line of wrok, we are better off without them.
Lol, young man I am not saying it is alright to for police to beat you for being mouthy. Like I said, there are above and below average officers.
Or just officers who saw a punk do the same thing you were doing last time then the punk pulled a gun and....
You are a very un streetwise fool if you mouth off to a man with a gun in a tense situation. Unless you plan on going George Washington and holding a revolution, the place to fight the power is in court if you think an officer harrassed you. The police have a bigger gang than you. No loss of face admitting that. Sure you are probably tougher than any one of them one on one. This is not a macho chest pumping contest.
Lets go yell at bouncers for fun. My my.
I think less of you now.
Look, when the cops pull you over next time remember that man or woman has a legitimate concern any person they pull over is nuts and will shoot them. Behave very carefully.
Before anyone starts whining, yes, this is one sided. But if the officer was aware of this boys condition he should be brought up on criminal charges. There is no excuse for this if it is accurate.
Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teenager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.
Pamela Ford says her "mentally challenged/handicapped" son Jesse Kersey, 17, was riding his bike near his Dayton home when Officer Willie Hooper stopped him and tried to talk to him.
The mom says that "Prior to the incident described below, defendant Hooper knew Jesse and was aware that Jesse was mentally challenged/handicapped and a minor child."
Nonetheless, Ford says, Hooper "apparently took Jesse's speech impediment for disrespect ... [and] began yelling at Jesse and after Jesse attempted to communicate with him[.] Jesse, being a minor and mentally challenged/handicapped, turned and rode his bike back to his home in an attempt to ask his mother, Ford, to help him communicate with defendant Cooper," according to the complaint in Montgomery County Court.
Courthouse News Service
Rebelling does not equal going out and being an ass. Get a clue.Are you saying it is fine for police to be abusive an violent as long as they do not actually kill anyone?
Police are supposed to be better than this all the time. I mouth off to cops all the time, and will keep doing it in the future. I know what it is like for them, and I expect them to be able to handle it and still be polite to the assholes. If they can't they should go out and find another line of wrok, we are better off without them.
Lol, young man I am not saying it is alright to for police to beat you for being mouthy. Like I said, there are above and below average officers.
Or just officers who saw a punk do the same thing you were doing last time then the punk pulled a gun and....
You are a very un streetwise fool if you mouth off to a man with a gun in a tense situation. Unless you plan on going George Washington and holding a revolution, the place to fight the power is in court if you think an officer harrassed you. The police have a bigger gang than you. No loss of face admitting that. Sure you are probably tougher than any one of them one on one. This is not a macho chest pumping contest.
Lets go yell at bouncers for fun. My my.
I think less of you now.
Look, when the cops pull you over next time remember that man or woman has a legitimate concern any person they pull over is nuts and will shoot them. Behave very carefully.
Thanks for the neg rep. I especially enjoy it from idiots who think they are old enough to call me a young man.
The thing you are missing here is that it does not matter if it is smart or streetwise to argue with cops, it is a right of every American. We fucking rebelled against England so we could argue with police, and everyone else who is in authority. We fought multiple wars over the last 235 years in order to argue with cops.
They chose the profession, and they have to deal with it. They should be able to handle nuts without taking it out on regular people. If it takes people like me treating them like idiots occasionally then so be it. If you were half as streetwise as you want to pretend you would know that if you that cops will go off on you even if you kiss their ass.
Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.Before anyone starts whining, yes, this is one sided. But if the officer was aware of this boys condition he should be brought up on criminal charges. There is no excuse for this if it is accurate.
Courthouse News Service
There are bad cops out there. Not necessarily crooked but below average, and everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like one.
Before we all jump against the police remember what they deal with every day.
My father once told me "son, don't be smarting off or looking threatening to no cops. Especially little tough guy cops or broads. They will just haul off and shoot your big ass"
Really decent advice. At least now there are tazers and pepper sprays.
Pre teens and teenagers, hell everyone, should have to watch that cops show two hours a week. Just to see the world through their eyes would help prevent these situations.
I do not care what you say to a cop or if you walk away. That is your right. The only time that a cop has the right to retaliate is if there is a crime going on or you do more than simply become disrespectful.
Never said that I would actively engage in that behavior but I have cops treat me like shit every time I come into contact with them. They are rarely polite in the manner that they approach you and nothing is worse than having to sit through one of their sermons. My basic premise is that this guy should have his ass nailed to the wall hard for his actions as the boy did NOTHING illegal or even wrong. Yet here we have people here willing to defend the cop. Hell no. he has the position and authority and when that is abused there should be no slack in punishment. Cops tend to act the way they do specifically because they are able to get away with these type of actions. You thing that this is the FIRST time that he 'ruffed up' someone for not licking his ass. I highly doubt it. This just hits big because the kid was disables so he has zero recourse to explain it away.Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.There are bad cops out there. Not necessarily crooked but below average, and everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like one.
Before we all jump against the police remember what they deal with every day.
My father once told me "son, don't be smarting off or looking threatening to no cops. Especially little tough guy cops or broads. They will just haul off and shoot your big ass"
Really decent advice. At least now there are tazers and pepper sprays.
Pre teens and teenagers, hell everyone, should have to watch that cops show two hours a week. Just to see the world through their eyes would help prevent these situations.
I do not care what you say to a cop or if you walk away. That is your right. The only time that a cop has the right to retaliate is if there is a crime going on or you do more than simply become disrespectful.
Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
Wow. We don't agree often, but that was the post of the day!!!Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.There are bad cops out there. Not necessarily crooked but below average, and everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like one.
Before we all jump against the police remember what they deal with every day.
My father once told me "son, don't be smarting off or looking threatening to no cops. Especially little tough guy cops or broads. They will just haul off and shoot your big ass"
Really decent advice. At least now there are tazers and pepper sprays.
Pre teens and teenagers, hell everyone, should have to watch that cops show two hours a week. Just to see the world through their eyes would help prevent these situations.
I do not care what you say to a cop or if you walk away. That is your right. The only time that a cop has the right to retaliate is if there is a crime going on or you do more than simply become disrespectful.
Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
Rebelling does not equal going out and being an ass. Get a clue.Lol, young man I am not saying it is alright to for police to beat you for being mouthy. Like I said, there are above and below average officers.
Or just officers who saw a punk do the same thing you were doing last time then the punk pulled a gun and....
You are a very un streetwise fool if you mouth off to a man with a gun in a tense situation. Unless you plan on going George Washington and holding a revolution, the place to fight the power is in court if you think an officer harrassed you. The police have a bigger gang than you. No loss of face admitting that. Sure you are probably tougher than any one of them one on one. This is not a macho chest pumping contest.
Lets go yell at bouncers for fun. My my.
I think less of you now.
Look, when the cops pull you over next time remember that man or woman has a legitimate concern any person they pull over is nuts and will shoot them. Behave very carefully.
Thanks for the neg rep. I especially enjoy it from idiots who think they are old enough to call me a young man.
The thing you are missing here is that it does not matter if it is smart or streetwise to argue with cops, it is a right of every American. We fucking rebelled against England so we could argue with police, and everyone else who is in authority. We fought multiple wars over the last 235 years in order to argue with cops.
They chose the profession, and they have to deal with it. They should be able to handle nuts without taking it out on regular people. If it takes people like me treating them like idiots occasionally then so be it. If you were half as streetwise as you want to pretend you would know that if you that cops will go off on you even if you kiss their ass.
Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.There are bad cops out there. Not necessarily crooked but below average, and everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like one.
Before we all jump against the police remember what they deal with every day.
My father once told me "son, don't be smarting off or looking threatening to no cops. Especially little tough guy cops or broads. They will just haul off and shoot your big ass"
Really decent advice. At least now there are tazers and pepper sprays.
Pre teens and teenagers, hell everyone, should have to watch that cops show two hours a week. Just to see the world through their eyes would help prevent these situations.
I do not care what you say to a cop or if you walk away. That is your right. The only time that a cop has the right to retaliate is if there is a crime going on or you do more than simply become disrespectful.
Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
Assuming this is true per the article, I'd like to see both officers convicted of criminal charges. The problem, of course, is determining if the story in the article is, in fact, true.
I do find one thing a bit odd. According to the article the mother and a family friend were both at the house, yet nothing indicates either made any attempt to physically intervene. I would have thought at least the mother would have tried to prevent such an assault on a handicapped child.
Kerseys mother opened the door and pulled her son in, at which point Hopper fired his Taser, hitting the 17-year-old in the back. The mother pulled out one of the probes, and Kersey fled through the house to the kitchen.Hooper attempted to take control of Kersey, but had to fight off his mother and later a family friend. It turned into a donnybrook in the kitchen as Hopper and Officer Howard, who arrived as backup, struggled to subdue Kersey, while keeping the mother and family friend out of the fray.
At one point, dispatchers called for all officers in East Dayton to respond to the scene.
Neither Tasers nor pepper spray were effective. Officers used physical strikes and baton strikes to the thigh to take Kersey to the ground and handcuff him.
I think something is missing in this story.
Never said that I would actively engage in that behavior but I have cops treat me like shit every time I come into contact with them. They are rarely polite in the manner that they approach you and nothing is worse than having to sit through one of their sermons. My basic premise is that this guy should have his ass nailed to the wall hard for his actions as the boy did NOTHING illegal or even wrong. Yet here we have people here willing to defend the cop. Hell no. he has the position and authority and when that is abused there should be no slack in punishment. Cops tend to act the way they do specifically because they are able to get away with these type of actions. You thing that this is the FIRST time that he 'ruffed up' someone for not licking his ass. I highly doubt it. This just hits big because the kid was disables so he has zero recourse to explain it away.Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.
I do not care what you say to a cop or if you walk away. That is your right. The only time that a cop has the right to retaliate is if there is a crime going on or you do more than simply become disrespectful.
Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
Before we all jump to defending the cop lets all remember that they hold extreme power over your daily lives and that with that power comes the utmost responsibility to act accordingly.
I do not care what you say to a cop or if you walk away. That is your right. The only time that a cop has the right to retaliate is if there is a crime going on or you do more than simply become disrespectful.
Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
There is a difference between a speeding semi and a cop who has had a bad day. Speeding semi's are subject to Newton's laws of motion. Cops who had a bad day are subject to the fact that they signed up for it. I respect them for what they do, but they do not get to take their bad days out on people.
As for your question, you are presenting a false dilemma, those are not my only choices. Even if they were, once you get into the court system as a result of a run in with a bad cop the burden of proof is on you. Not to mention the fact that, once we start letting cops do whatever they want just because they are having a bad day, people will end up in the hospital and the morgue even if they do not mouth off.
Given those real world facts I would rather mouth off than not mouth off if a cop starts hassling me. For one thing, it is much more likely to attract attention and get me witnesses to the interaction. It also increases the odds of me getting a cop who is not having a bad day from zero to something that gives me a grain of hope that one of the cops will hold him back.
In the spirit of false dilemmas, which would you rather have, a world where we can get a beat down for talking back to a cop, or a world where cops have absolute respect for everyone's rights, even the innocent people who are having a bad day?
Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
There is a difference between a speeding semi and a cop who has had a bad day. Speeding semi's are subject to Newton's laws of motion. Cops who had a bad day are subject to the fact that they signed up for it. I respect them for what they do, but they do not get to take their bad days out on people.
As for your question, you are presenting a false dilemma, those are not my only choices. Even if they were, once you get into the court system as a result of a run in with a bad cop the burden of proof is on you. Not to mention the fact that, once we start letting cops do whatever they want just because they are having a bad day, people will end up in the hospital and the morgue even if they do not mouth off.
Given those real world facts I would rather mouth off than not mouth off if a cop starts hassling me. For one thing, it is much more likely to attract attention and get me witnesses to the interaction. It also increases the odds of me getting a cop who is not having a bad day from zero to something that gives me a grain of hope that one of the cops will hold him back.
In the spirit of false dilemmas, which would you rather have, a world where we can get a beat down for talking back to a cop, or a world where cops have absolute respect for everyone's rights, even the innocent people who are having a bad day?
You missed the analogy and my point completely. Before mouthing off to a cop and potentially escalating an already bad situation out of control, it's better to use your head and let the system function even as inefficiently as it sometimes does. Every cop has a bad day, some cops have bad lives and attitudes, standing on principle is great, just chose the appropriate time and place when the law is on your side. Sometimes it's during the altercation as happened in this case but more often than not it's better to handle it after the fact when it can be shown you were completely cooperative and the cop was being the asshole. A judge is more likely to believe you under those circumstances.
There is a difference between a speeding semi and a cop who has had a bad day. Speeding semi's are subject to Newton's laws of motion. Cops who had a bad day are subject to the fact that they signed up for it. I respect them for what they do, but they do not get to take their bad days out on people.
As for your question, you are presenting a false dilemma, those are not my only choices. Even if they were, once you get into the court system as a result of a run in with a bad cop the burden of proof is on you. Not to mention the fact that, once we start letting cops do whatever they want just because they are having a bad day, people will end up in the hospital and the morgue even if they do not mouth off.
Given those real world facts I would rather mouth off than not mouth off if a cop starts hassling me. For one thing, it is much more likely to attract attention and get me witnesses to the interaction. It also increases the odds of me getting a cop who is not having a bad day from zero to something that gives me a grain of hope that one of the cops will hold him back.
In the spirit of false dilemmas, which would you rather have, a world where we can get a beat down for talking back to a cop, or a world where cops have absolute respect for everyone's rights, even the innocent people who are having a bad day?
You missed the analogy and my point completely. Before mouthing off to a cop and potentially escalating an already bad situation out of control, it's better to use your head and let the system function even as inefficiently as it sometimes does. Every cop has a bad day, some cops have bad lives and attitudes, standing on principle is great, just chose the appropriate time and place when the law is on your side. Sometimes it's during the altercation as happened in this case but more often than not it's better to handle it after the fact when it can be shown you were completely cooperative and the cop was being the asshole. A judge is more likely to believe you under those circumstances.
What makes you think that me mouthing off to cops is me not using my head? It draws attention, creates witnesses, and generally causes the bad cops to do something stupid.
Never said that I would actively engage in that behavior but I have cops treat me like shit every time I come into contact with them. They are rarely polite in the manner that they approach you and nothing is worse than having to sit through one of their sermons. My basic premise is that this guy should have his ass nailed to the wall hard for his actions as the boy did NOTHING illegal or even wrong. Yet here we have people here willing to defend the cop. Hell no. he has the position and authority and when that is abused there should be no slack in punishment. Cops tend to act the way they do specifically because they are able to get away with these type of actions. You thing that this is the FIRST time that he 'ruffed up' someone for not licking his ass. I highly doubt it. This just hits big because the kid was disables so he has zero recourse to explain it away.Given that attitude I bet you'd step out in front of a speeding semi because pedestrians have the right of way. I don't think the semi's gonna lose that one.
This is the real world, cops are human too and while this is not a defense of abusive officers I have to ask a real world question. Would you rather deal with abusive cops from inside a courtroom/internal affairs investigation or from inside a hospital or morgue?
All I was saying is what defense attorneys always tend to recommend. Don't give the cops any reasons, even if they're being authoritarian jerks, they may not get nailed the first couple of times but eventually it catches up with them, I've seen it happen.
Most cops don't act like this, most remember the fact they are here to serve and protect, unfortunately there are the others who start believing serve and protect is command and demand, most of those eventually get weeded out.
Now part of you statement begs the question, why do you have so much interaction with the police, especially from a seemingly negative standpoint?
I hope the officers in question receives a fair hearing and if found to be in willful violation of the law are punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Never said that I would actively engage in that behavior but I have cops treat me like shit every time I come into contact with them. They are rarely polite in the manner that they approach you and nothing is worse than having to sit through one of their sermons. My basic premise is that this guy should have his ass nailed to the wall hard for his actions as the boy did NOTHING illegal or even wrong. Yet here we have people here willing to defend the cop. Hell no. he has the position and authority and when that is abused there should be no slack in punishment. Cops tend to act the way they do specifically because they are able to get away with these type of actions. You thing that this is the FIRST time that he 'ruffed up' someone for not licking his ass. I highly doubt it. This just hits big because the kid was disables so he has zero recourse to explain it away.
All I was saying is what defense attorneys always tend to recommend. Don't give the cops any reasons, even if they're being authoritarian jerks, they may not get nailed the first couple of times but eventually it catches up with them, I've seen it happen.
Most cops don't act like this, most remember the fact they are here to serve and protect, unfortunately there are the others who start believing serve and protect is command and demand, most of those eventually get weeded out.
Now part of you statement begs the question, why do you have so much interaction with the police, especially from a seemingly negative standpoint?
I hope the officers in question receives a fair hearing and if found to be in willful violation of the law are punished to the fullest extent of the law.
That is all well and good but the OP is coming at this from the other side: AFTER the fact. You do have the right to act like an idiot. You may pay a price for being an idiot BUT that does not give the cop the right to abuse his power. We need to acknowledge that.
I hate stories like this, brings back bad, bad memories.
I know how some Police can abuse their power. They should be held to account for things like this.
Abuse of power, and assault charges to begin with.
