PM to Abbas

[Phoenall]

Challenger simply denies that the Jewish people exist.

Historical fact and Archaeology denies the existence of a Jewish ethnicity; "The Jewish People" are a Zionist invention that has become mainstream when it was once considered a whack-job fringe theory. Even Jewish people today still think it is, although they are a minority. Here's three examples:

Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism

True Torah Jews | Against Zionism

International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network (IJAN)

And all you have is the less that 1% of the whole Jewish worlds population that are all whack jobs.



What a loser you are.........................

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not true. How do you define immigrant? How do you define colonists. They are two different things.

Of course they are two different things. One migrates to fulfill the desires and goals of an external, foreign country. The other migrates to join their efforts with the desires and goals of the country they move too.

The place of the Jewish people is Israel. They migrated there to join the State of the Jewish people. There is no foreign country that the Jewish people are colonists of. The entire idea is ridiculous. But clung to like a tired oold stained baby blankie by the anti-Israelers.

Sovereigns of a country (you know, those inhabitants of Palestine you are always going on about) have the right to welcome immigration. That is part of being sovereign.

Immigrant: Someone who moves to a country to become a part of that country usually with the approval of the present citizens. They live among the existing inhabitants. They seek citizenship and declare allegiance to their new country.

Colonist: Someone who moves to a country, against the opposition of the people, to live separate from the current population usually in settlements or colonies. They live by their own rules with as little interaction with to locals as possible. The expansion of the size and number of colonies requires the forced removal of the current population.

Are the Zionists immigrants or colonists?

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. The colonists are the arab muslims that moved there illegally at the command of their leaders. As shown by Winston Churchill who stood up in Westminster and stated that arab muslims were illegal immigrants to palestine because the nazi British administration of the mandate were more concerned with attacking the Jews and putting them in death camps

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. Blah, blah, blah.​

Saying that a gazillion times will not make it true.

 

[Phoenall]

Not true. How do you define immigrant? How do you define colonists. They are two different things.

Of course they are two different things. One migrates to fulfill the desires and goals of an external, foreign country. The other migrates to join their efforts with the desires and goals of the country they move too.

The place of the Jewish people is Israel. They migrated there to join the State of the Jewish people. There is no foreign country that the Jewish people are colonists of. The entire idea is ridiculous. But clung to like a tired oold stained baby blankie by the anti-Israelers.

Sovereigns of a country (you know, those inhabitants of Palestine you are always going on about) have the right to welcome immigration. That is part of being sovereign.

Immigrant: Someone who moves to a country to become a part of that country usually with the approval of the present citizens. They live among the existing inhabitants. They seek citizenship and declare allegiance to their new country.

Colonist: Someone who moves to a country, against the opposition of the people, to live separate from the current population usually in settlements or colonies. They live by their own rules with as little interaction with to locals as possible. The expansion of the size and number of colonies requires the forced removal of the current population.

Are the Zionists immigrants or colonists?

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. The colonists are the arab muslims that moved there illegally at the command of their leaders. As shown by Winston Churchill who stood up in Westminster and stated that arab muslims were illegal immigrants to palestine because the nazi British administration of the mandate were more concerned with attacking the Jews and putting them in death camps

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. Blah, blah, blah.​

Saying that a gazillion times will not make it true.

Proving it many thousands of times does and that is where you fail every time. The facts cant be altered that the Ottomans invited the Jews to migrate and colonise, then the LoN did the same. And the facts are written down for all to see


The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

ART. 6.
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.





Argue international law in the Hague if you are so sure of yourself, if not stop making yourself look like a complete moron

 

[Shusha]

OK, but they were colonizing Palestine.

You are using the term in its meaning to move to a place and settle there -- immigrate. But whatever, according to your own criteria the Jewish people, as inhabitants and therefore sovereigns, had every right to invite immigration.

 

[Shusha]

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. Blah, blah, blah.​

Saying that a gazillion times will not make it true.

How could it not be true? Your own criteria says that the inhabitants (some of which were Jewish) were the sovereigns.

 

[Shusha]

Challenger simply denies that the Jewish people exist.

Historical fact and Archaeology denies the existence of a Jewish ethnicity; "The Jewish People" are a Zionist invention that has become mainstream when it was once considered a whack-job fringe theory. Even Jewish people today still think it is, although they are now a minority (it doesn't mean they're wrong).

Challenger, your erasure of the Jewish people is deeply disturbing. Its also demonstrably false and therefore an irrational belief. It is impossible to hold discussions with irrational people.



(For those lurkers who may not have fallen into this level of irrationality: There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply. And yes, there are minority, extremist sects of Jews who believe, as a religious tenet of faith, that return to Eretz Israel may only happen after certain religious conditions are fulfilled. This is a tenet of faith, and does not in any way deny either the existence of the Jewish people, nor Jewish history.)

 

[P F Tinmore]

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. Blah, blah, blah.​

Saying that a gazillion times will not make it true.

How could it not be true? Your own criteria says that the inhabitants (some of which were Jewish) were the sovereigns.

You are confusing the Native Jews with the Zionist colonizers.

The native Jews did not want a Jewish state. The Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews to self determination.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Challenger simply denies that the Jewish people exist.

Historical fact and Archaeology denies the existence of a Jewish ethnicity; "The Jewish People" are a Zionist invention that has become mainstream when it was once considered a whack-job fringe theory. Even Jewish people today still think it is, although they are now a minority (it doesn't mean they're wrong).

Challenger, your erasure of the Jewish people is deeply disturbing. Its also demonstrably false and therefore an irrational belief. It is impossible to hold discussions with irrational people.



(For those lurkers who may not have fallen into this level of irrationality: There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply. And yes, there are minority, extremist sects of Jews who believe, as a religious tenet of faith, that return to Eretz Israel may only happen after certain religious conditions are fulfilled. This is a tenet of faith, and does not in any way deny either the existence of the Jewish people, nor Jewish history.)

There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply.​

Indeed, and I have never said otherwise.

 

[Phoenall]

Immigrants as they were invited to migrate by the lands soveriegn owners. Blah, blah, blah.​

Saying that a gazillion times will not make it true.

How could it not be true? Your own criteria says that the inhabitants (some of which were Jewish) were the sovereigns.

You are confusing the Native Jews with the Zionist colonizers.

The native Jews did not want a Jewish state. The Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews to self determination.

LINK lets see your evidenced then tinny as you have said this before and never produced the evidence from the Jews themselves.
It is strange that the indigenous Jews went to the migrants for protection against arab muslim attacks in Hebron and Jerusalem

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger simply denies that the Jewish people exist.

Historical fact and Archaeology denies the existence of a Jewish ethnicity; "The Jewish People" are a Zionist invention that has become mainstream when it was once considered a whack-job fringe theory. Even Jewish people today still think it is, although they are now a minority (it doesn't mean they're wrong).

Challenger, your erasure of the Jewish people is deeply disturbing. Its also demonstrably false and therefore an irrational belief. It is impossible to hold discussions with irrational people.



(For those lurkers who may not have fallen into this level of irrationality: There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply. And yes, there are minority, extremist sects of Jews who believe, as a religious tenet of faith, that return to Eretz Israel may only happen after certain religious conditions are fulfilled. This is a tenet of faith, and does not in any way deny either the existence of the Jewish people, nor Jewish history.)

There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply.​

Indeed, and I have never said otherwise.

LIAR you have always denied the Jews their legal, moral and human rights

 

[Shusha]

The native Jews did not want a Jewish state. The Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews to self determination.

Wait. What? So your argument against a State for the Jewish people is that the Jewish people don't actually want self-determination?! That the Jewish people want to live under the rule of Arab Muslims?!

Wow. I don't even know what to respond to that. That is every bit as irrational as Challenger's argument that the Jewish people don't exist.

 

[Phoenall]

The native Jews did not want a Jewish state. The Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews to self determination.

Wait. What? So your argument against a State for the Jewish people is that the Jewish people don't actually want self-determination?! That the Jewish people want to live under the rule of Arab Muslims?!

Wow. I don't even know what to respond to that. That is every bit as irrational as Challenger's argument that the Jewish people don't exist.

It is basically the same thing and it is all the anti Jews have left after having all their other arguments destroyed

 

[Shusha]

It is basically the same thing and it is all the anti Jews have left after having all their other arguments destroyed

Agreed. It is interesting to see what their bottom line argument is, though.

 

[Phoenall]

It is basically the same thing and it is all the anti Jews have left after having all their other arguments destroyed

Agreed. It is interesting to see what their bottom line argument is, though.

The same as the Catholics and the German Nazi's was, to rid the world of the Jews because they are standing in the way of world domination. They are highly organised as a religious group, making it hard to convert them to communism, Marxism or another religion.

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, your erasure of the Jewish people is deeply disturbing.

For those lurkers who may not have fallen into this level of irrationality: There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply.

I'm not "erasing" anything; it's not possible to erase what never existed in the first place. "Judaism" has existed as a religion for thousands of years, that's undeniable and has attracted many converts throughout Europe and the Middle East as far away as China. What IS irrational is ascribing a universal "ethnicity" to a world wide religious cult as Zionists have done. I've no objection against people identifying themselves as Jewish wherever they come from, but that doen't in any way make them ethnically Judean/Samaritan/Galileean/Jubusite/Idumean, etc. and does not give them any beter claim to Palestine than the native population.

As late as the 20th century and even after Balfour wrote his note Lord Montague a prominent Jewish peer and the only Jewish member of the government wrote a rebuttal to Balfour which included the following:

"...I assert that there is not a Jewish nation. The members of my family, for instance, who have been in this country for generations, have no sort or kind of community of view or of desire with any Jewish family in any other country beyond the fact that they profess to a greater or less degree the same religion. It is no more true to say that a Jewish Englishman and a Jewish Moor are of the same nation than it is to say that a Christian Englishman and a Christian Frenchman are of the same nation..."

This reflected the majority view amongst Jewish people in 1917.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The native Jews did not want a Jewish state. The Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews to self determination.

Wait. What? So your argument against a State for the Jewish people is that the Jewish people don't actually want self-determination?! That the Jewish people want to live under the rule of Arab Muslims?!

Wow. I don't even know what to respond to that. That is every bit as irrational as Challenger's argument that the Jewish people don't exist.

There you go again using the term "the Jews" like they all have the same beliefs and opinions.

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, your erasure of the Jewish people is deeply disturbing.

For those lurkers who may not have fallen into this level of irrationality: There is plenty of historical, practical and archaeological evidence for the existence of the Jewish people, going back thousands of years, by any criteria you care to apply.

I'm not "erasing" anything; it's not possible to erase what never existed in the first place. "Judaism" has existed as a religion for thousands of years, that's undeniable and has attracted many converts throughout Europe and the Middle East as far away as China. What IS irrational is ascribing a universal "ethnicity" to a world wide religious cult as Zionists have done. I've no objection against people identifying themselves as Jewish wherever they come from, but that doen't in any way make them ethnically Judean/Samaritan/Galileean/Jubusite/Idumean, etc. and does not give them any beter claim to Palestine than the native population.

As late as the 20th century and even after Balfour wrote his note Lord Montague a prominent Jewish peer and the only Jewish member of the government wrote a rebuttal to Balfour which included the following:

"...I assert that there is not a Jewish nation. The members of my family, for instance, who have been in this country for generations, have no sort or kind of community of view or of desire with any Jewish family in any other country beyond the fact that they profess to a greater or less degree the same religion. It is no more true to say that a Jewish Englishman and a Jewish Moor are of the same nation than it is to say that a Christian Englishman and a Christian Frenchman are of the same nation..."

This reflected the majority view amongst Jewish people in 1917.

No it is just one persons view that you are passing of as being widespread.

How about a link showing that your claim "This reflected the majority view amongst Jewish people in 1917" to be factual

 

[Phoenall]

The native Jews did not want a Jewish state. The Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews to self determination.

Wait. What? So your argument against a State for the Jewish people is that the Jewish people don't actually want self-determination?! That the Jewish people want to live under the rule of Arab Muslims?!

Wow. I don't even know what to respond to that. That is every bit as irrational as Challenger's argument that the Jewish people don't exist.

There you go again using the term "the Jews" like they all have the same beliefs and opinions.

And here yiou go again presenting islamonazi propaganda and pallywood as if it was real.


As for the Jews the majority do have the same belief and opinions, just as the majority of palestinians have the same belief and opinions

 

[Shusha]

There you go again using the term "the Jews" like they all have the same beliefs and opinions.

I am well aware that there is a small minority of Jewish people who, as a religious tenet of faith, believe that the return from exile should not happen except under certain conditions which have not yet been fulfilled. Which is to say that they are indeed Zionists, they just disagree on the timing of it.

However, it was actually you who assigned a global opinion on the Jewish people by saying that the Jewish people do not seek self-determination.

 

[Shusha]

"...I assert that there is not a Jewish nation. The members of my family, for instance, who have been in this country for generations, have no sort or kind of community of view or of desire with any Jewish family in any other country beyond the fact that they profess to a greater or less degree the same religion. It is no more true to say that a Jewish Englishman and a Jewish Moor are of the same nation than it is to say that a Christian Englishman and a Christian Frenchman are of the same nation..."

This reflected the majority view amongst Jewish people in 1917.

Even if this is true (and I do not believe in any way that it is) -- so what? How does this apply to solving the conflict today? Except to try to deny or erase the Jewish people?

Should we take the majority view of the Arabs and say that there were no such thing as Palestinians in 1917, therefore Palestinians don't exist and have no rights?