Perjury regarding sex -- it really IS a crime!

[Gunny]

guilt of crimes in america is never presumed until proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am neither the US Constitution, nor am I the judiciary branch of the government at any level. His guilt in several various endeavors is quite well-documented. That he has not been prosecuted for them is irrelevant.

While you can again attempt to stand on legal technicality, we BOTH know that presumed innocence line is bull. I have to go no further than just about every "Bush lied" thread on this board to prove it.

Now, my point is made. I had and have no intention of getting into the Clinton's evil nutroll anymore than I ever want to the Bush is evil nutroll. He did what he did, legal conviction or no. I stated then as I do now I don't think it was worth the money spent on it, nor do I think it was worth redirecting the Whitewater investigation.

If it is your desire to defend from a Clinton-hater/basher, you are misdirecting fire. I agreed with him on some issues and not others, the same as I do Bush ... the same as I have every President of the US, with the exception of Carter. HIM I'll bash.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Only the very stupid would claim that you must be found guilty in a court to be guilty of committing a crime...even the most partisan of hackers wouldn't be dumb enough to make that claim...

You havent been paying attention...
When its a Democrat, if there's no conviction, there's no crime.
When its a Republican, a simple accusation establishes guilt.

The point of the thread, of course, is that, regardless of why you perjured yourself, perjury is still a felony, and you can still be prosecuted for it -- the lamentations of the left re: Clinton notwitstanding.

 

[Dr Grump]

You havent been paying attention...
When its a Democrat, if there's no conviction, there's no crime.
When its a Republican, a simple accusation establishes guilt.

The point of the thread, of course, is that, regardless of why you perjured yourself, perjury is still a felony, and you can still be prosecuted for it -- the lamentations of the left re: Clinton notwitstanding.

It is you that hasn't been paying attention

Dem = everything that is wrong in the world
Repub = everything that is right in the world

 

[maineman]

I am neither the US Constitution, nor am I the judiciary branch of the government at any level. His guilt in several various endeavors is quite well-documented. That he has not been prosecuted for them is irrelevant.

While you can again attempt to stand on legal technicality, we BOTH know that presumed innocence line is bull. I have to go no further than just about every "Bush lied" thread on this board to prove it.

Now, my point is made. I had and have no intention of getting into the Clinton's evil nutroll anymore than I ever want to the Bush is evil nutroll. He did what he did, legal conviction or no. I stated then as I do now I don't think it was worth the money spent on it, nor do I think it was worth redirecting the Whitewater investigation.

If it is your desire to defend from a Clinton-hater/basher, you are misdirecting fire. I agreed with him on some issues and not others, the same as I do Bush ... the same as I have every President of the US, with the exception of Carter. HIM I'll bash.

It is not a legal technicality. It is our law. We are innocent of crimes until proven guilty in a court of law. Perjury is a legal term. IT is a crime. "Lying" is not a legal term and LYING is not a crime. We know that politicians lie all the time. Bush LIED about weapons of mass destruction and about Iraq's involvement and complicity with Iraq. Bush is NOT guilty of perjury. Clinton lied about his blowjob... he is not guilty of the crime of perjury either.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It is you that hasn't been paying attention
Dem = everything that is wrong in the world
Repub = everything that is right in the world

Yours, above, is a statement of fact.
Prove it to be true.

 

[rayboyusmc]

What lies were those, exactly? Oh yeah ... he didn't have perfect recall of prior testimony.

He was convicted for obstruction of justice in a trial that dealt with outing a covert CIA Officer. Funny, how prior to that he was known for his excellent recall. Funny, how talk about the left making excuses for their own but not about you doint the same thing.

Too bad y'all don't hold your presidential candidates to the same zero defect standard you do Republicans. But then, you wouldn't have any, would you?

Pull your brain housing group out of your anal orircie, Gunny. I have stated often that he committed perjury about his BJ.

adfaf

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What lies were those, exactly? Oh yeah ... he didn't have perfect recall of prior testimony.

He was convicted for obstruction of justice in a trial that dealt with outing a covert CIA Officer. Funny, how prior to that he was known for his excellent recall. Funny, how talk about the left making excuses for their own but not about you doint the same thing.

Too bad y'all don't hold your presidential candidates to the same zero defect standard you do Republicans. But then, you wouldn't have any, would you?

Pull your brain housing group out of your anal orircie, Gunny. I have stated often that he committed perjury about his BJ.

What obstruction? The man that outed her was already known and HE was not ordered to do so by the President , the Vice President or any other member of the executive. In fact Armitage was not even charged with a crime at all.

Now since Libby did not leak the name, since no one in the Executive ordered her name leaked and the man that DID leak her name was not even charged, what does that lead one to surmise about a 2 year investigation illegally designed to catch a person in perjury?

 

[rayboyusmc]

Please read the article. I didn't write it.

Morning Edition, March 7, 2007 · Guilty on four out of five counts. That was the verdict in the perjury trial of Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

The verdict capped a Washington scandal that began four years ago. The drama exposed the unsavory workings of the White House PR machine and the Washington media. It encompassed President Bush's justification for the Iraq war and the exposure of an undercover CIA agent. At the end of all that, Libby was convicted of lying under oath to a grand jury and FBI agents about his role in the affair.

"It's sad that we had a situation where a high-level official, a person who worked in the office of the vice president, obstructed justice and lied under oath," said Patrick Fitzgerald, the lead prosecutor on the case. "We wish that had not happened, but it did."

He was convicted by the jury. Then Bush commuted his sentence before he served any time.

This was a trial that involved the outing of a covert CIA agent. I thought they were on our side. I guess they aren't if their husband contradicts the yellow cake shit.

 

[M14 Shooter]

"It's sad that we had a situation where a high-level official, a person who worked in the office of the vice president, obstructed justice and lied under oath," said Patrick Fitzgerald, the lead prosecutor on the case. "We wish that had not happened, but it did."

Apparently, its NOT sad when a President does the same.
Unless he has a (D) by his name, anyway.

 

[rayboyusmc]

I missed this shit.

what does that lead one to surmise about a 2 year investigation illegally designed to catch a person in perjury

I guess that leads us to surmise the same about an 7 year investigation by Starr to catch a person in perjury over a BJ when it started with Whitewater.

Jeez, what a bunch of crap.

 

[Alpha1]

It is not a legal technicality. It is our law. We are innocent of crimes until proven guilty in a court of law. Perjury is a legal term. IT is a crime. "Lying" is not a legal term and LYING is not a crime. We know that politicians lie all the time. Bush LIED about weapons of mass destruction and about Iraq's involvement and complicity with Iraq. Bush is NOT guilty of perjury. Clinton lied about his blowjob... he is not guilty of the crime of perjury either.

HERE is a statement of fact....

If you shoot your freekin' wife in the head while she sleeps and she is deemed dead....YOU ARE GUILTY OF MURDER....YOU ARE A MURDERER.....
That friend, is a STATEMENT OF FACT THAT IS UNDENIABLE....

It doesn't matter one fuckin' bean if you are ever or never arrested or tried for the crime.....or if you are only one in the entire world that knows what happened...YOU ARE GUILTY OF MURDER....YOU ARE A MURDERER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now pick any crime you want...the same holds true.....perjury, bank robbery, speeding, illegal parking, etc.....you are guilty of that particular crime ...even if you're never caught....

 

[maineman]

HERE is a statement of fact....

If you shoot your freekin' wife in the head while she sleeps and she is deemed dead....YOU ARE GUILTY OF MURDER....YOU ARE A MURDERER.....
That friend, is a STATEMENT OF FACT THAT IS UNDENIABLE....

It doesn't matter one fuckin' bean if you are ever or never arrested or tried for the crime.....or if you are only one in the entire world that knows what happened...YOU ARE GUILTY OF MURDER....YOU ARE A MURDERER

you are a killer...but no one is GUILTY of the crime of MURDER in these United States until a court of law has found them guilty. EVERYONE is presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. That's a fact. Sputter and fume all you want. That fact will not change. sorry.

 

[Alpha1]

Are you claiming that "murder" is strictly a legal term ?

The only definition of murder is a legal one ?

There is no other (laymans) definition of the word murder ?

Is this your claim?????

 

[maineman]

Are you claiming that "murder" is strictly a legal term ?

The only definition of murder is a legal one ?

There is no other (laymans) definition of the word murder ?

Is this your claim?????

I am saying that the statement: "Bill Clinton is not guilty of the crime of perjury" is true. I am saying that the man in your analogy is a killer, but is not guilty of the crime of murder until he is found so by a court of law.

Is that really that hard for you to understand, or is it really that you are so fucking bullheaded that even if you do understand it, you refuse to accept it?

 

[Alpha1]

I am saying that the statement: "Bill Clinton is not guilty of the crime of perjury" is true. I am saying that the man in your analogy is a killer, but is not guilty of the crime of murder until he is found so by a court of law.

Is that really that hard for you to understand, or is it really that you are so fucking bullheaded that even if you do understand it, you refuse to accept it?

Your playing with words to make a point of little significance gets tiresome....

So, I'm explaining to you, politely....that you DO NOT have to found guilty of a crime in a court of law to be guilty of the crime.....

If you commit the act, that in itself is sufficient.....

If you suck a cock...you are a cock sucker....do you understand that

If you rob a bank...you are a bank robber....
If you kill someone for a lark...you are a murderer...
If you go over the speed limit....you are a speeder....

Being found guilty in a court of law is irrelevant....except to the court...
Just as being found innocent in a court does not excuse you if you actually did the deed....except in the eyes of the court....beating the charge does not make you not guilty ......
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You also made the claim that lying was not a crime....how do you explain this news story in 2004.....

"Martha Stewart was sentenced to five months in prison and two years' probation Friday for lying to investigators about her sale of ImClone Systems stock in late 2001."

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/16/news/newsmakers/martha_sentencing/

 

[Alpha1]

It is not a legal technicality. It is our law. We are innocent of crimes until proven guilty in a court of law. Perjury is a legal term. IT is a crime.

"Lying" is not a legal term and LYING is not a crime.


So lets clear up this mis-conception.....lying can be a crime....

Businesspersons Beware: Lying is a Crime
The rules regarding lying in business in the U.S. are currently being vigorously enforced.

Linnea B. McCord, JD, MBA, Kim Greenhalgh, JD, and Michael Magasin, JD

In case after case, scandal after scandal, American federal law enforcement officials have clearly shown by their indictments and prosecutions that there is no confusion in their minds—lying is a crime. Businesspersons need to clearly understand those rules and what prosecutors define as lying.

http://gbr.pepperdine.edu/043/lying.html




We know that politicians lie all the time. Bush LIED about weapons of mass destruction and about Iraq's involvement and complicity with Iraq. Bush is NOT guilty of perjury. Clinton lied about his blowjob... he is not guilty of the crime of perjury either.

00

 

[maineman]

show me a criminal statute from anywhere in the United States that defines the "crime" of "lying".

 

[maineman]

Your playing with words to make a point of little significance gets tiresome....

So, I'm explaining to you, politely....that you DO NOT have to found guilty of a crime in a court of law to be guilty of the crime.....

If you commit the act, that in itself is sufficient.....

If you suck a cock...you are a cock sucker....do you understand that

If you rob a bank...you are a bank robber....
If you kill someone for a lark...you are a murderer...
If you go over the speed limit....you are a speeder....

Being found guilty in a court of law is irrelevant....except to the court...
Just as being found innocent in a court does not excuse you if you actually did the deed....except in the eyes of the court....beating the charge does not make you not guilty ......
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You also made the claim that lying was not a crime....how do you explain this news story in 2004.....

"Martha Stewart was sentenced to five months in prison and two years' probation Friday for lying to investigators about her sale of ImClone Systems stock in late 2001."

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/16/news/newsmakers/martha_sentencing/

if this is a little word game of such little significance, why do you insist on playing it?

Bill Clinton is not guilty of the crime of perjury. That does not mean he did not tell a lie about a blowjob. he clearly did. It only means that he is not guilty of the crime of perjury. that is a fact. Just accept it and move on.

 

[AllieBaba]

You mean like Scooter libby lying about a case dealing with a covert CIA operative?

I wonder if Bush will communte the mayors sentence?

THere's a difference between a bald-faced lie, and either not remembering or being set up by a bemused reporter.

We all "misspeak", ask Mrs. Clinton.

Clinton lied, under oath, and that is perjury.

It is not perjury to withhold information, forget the answer to a question, or even deliberately lie to a reporter.

The problem with libs is just this. They don't know what a lie is.

 

[Alpha1]

if this is a little word game of such little significance, why do you insist on playing it?

Bill Clinton is not guilty of the crime of perjury. That does not mean he did not tell a lie about a blowjob. he clearly did. It only means that he is not guilty of the crime of perjury. that is a fact. Just accept it and move on.

The reality is....Clinton did not get convicted of the crime of perjury, I agree, that is a fact, that is what actually happened....but that in itself does not mean he is innocent of the crime of perjury....
maybe this is too abstract an idea for you narrow mind....

Being found 'not guilty' in a trial does not in any way, shape or form mean that person is innocent, or did not commit the deed.....the decision of a jury is irrelevant to the facts.....

If a man walks into a bank and demands money from a teller at gunpoint and walks out of that bank with $10,000 of the banks money, he is guilty of robbing that bank...

If he gets arrested 1 second after he leaves the banks, is put on trial, and the jury finds him not guilty, the facts have not changed.....
He is still guilty of bank robbery.

OK..I'm done....