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Are you missing the reason for anger from those who follow the rules, and have worked and continue to work for what they have?
Why is it so hard for you to understand that some are unwillling to pay those who gamed the system.
Didn't your mommy read you the story of "The Ant and the Grasshopper"?
That may be the case but do you want the economy to fail? Why do you have such a problem help out your fellow Americans? And are you refering to the thousands here in the US who are poverty stricken as the ones who "gamed" system?
The problem is far more complex than you implied in your original post. Add to your calculations:
1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
2) The government was not design to do those things which caused the problem, nor throw around the funds which may or may not solve the problem.
3) I am opposed to any government plan which would change the terms of a legal contract (mortgage). Or we are no longer a nation of laws.
4) You seem to be confusing charity with public policy. Conservatives believe in voluntary community and charity, based on duties to each other, as opposed to involuntary collectivism. BTW, this is why conservatives are known to give far more charity than liberals.
5) In my post, I said neither that I didn't want to help my felllow Americans, nor did I say that I wanted the economy to fail. You've jumped to conclusions in a rather simple minded way.
You are good-hearted, but misinformed.
What CARE4ALL still refusues to see is the fact that its no ones responsibility except for there own...to pay there damn bills.
Actually you are looking into it entirely to much. The bottom line is that however these people messed up finacialy, it has to be fixed, otherwise our economy will drop some more. pulling us into something worse than The Great Depression of the 1930s. And i havent jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry that you can't see past YOU and look at it for what it really is. PULLING OUR NATION OUT OF AN ECONOMIC CRISIS!
Really? Huge corporations are reporting 50% losses for last quarter...jcpenneys just reported 51% profit loss....no store closures of major layoffs announced yet...Actually you are looking into it entirely to much. The bottom line is that however these people messed up finacialy, it has to be fixed, otherwise our economy will drop some more. pulling us into something worse than The Great Depression of the 1930s. And i havent jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry that you can't see past YOU and look at it for what it really is. PULLING OUR NATION OUT OF AN ECONOMIC CRISIS!
We are not going to see anything worse than the recession of the late 70's and early 80's
There is absolutely nothing to to support the claim that this is the worst thing since the great depression.
So stop buying into the fear mongering.
Bradley Schiller Says Barack Obama Should Stop Comparing Our Financial Crisis With the Great Depression - WSJ.com
Actually you are looking into it entirely to much. The bottom line is that however these people messed up finacialy, it has to be fixed, otherwise our economy will drop some more. pulling us into something worse than The Great Depression of the 1930s. And i havent jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry that you can't see past YOU and look at it for what it really is. PULLING OUR NATION OUT OF AN ECONOMIC CRISIS!
We are not going to see anything worse than the recession of the late 70's and early 80's
There is absolutely nothing to to support the claim that this is the worst thing since the great depression.
So stop buying into the fear mongering.
Bradley Schiller Says Barack Obama Should Stop Comparing Our Financial Crisis With the Great Depression - WSJ.com
Actually you are looking into it entirely to much. The bottom line is that however these people messed up finacialy, it has to be fixed, otherwise our economy will drop some more. pulling us into something worse than The Great Depression of the 1930s. And i havent jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry that you can't see past YOU and look at it for what it really is. PULLING OUR NATION OUT OF AN ECONOMIC CRISIS!
We are not going to see anything worse than the recession of the late 70's and early 80's
There is absolutely nothing to to support the claim that this is the worst thing since the great depression.
So stop buying into the fear mongering.
Bradley Schiller Says Barack Obama Should Stop Comparing Our Financial Crisis With the Great Depression - WSJ.com
Ok well you tell me how many jobs and businesses are supposed to go under this year? support that statement. God knows you won't listen to me. I know the number do you?
5) In my post, I said neither that I didn't want to help my felllow Americans, nor did I say that I wanted the economy to fail. You've jumped to conclusions in a rather simple minded way.
You are good-hearted, but misinformed.
The problem is far more complex than you implied in your original post. Add to your calculations:
1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
You are uninformed on this part PC, there most certainly is a way to know ALL OF THOSE THINGS...in fact flippers and vacation homes, or second and third homes, are not eligible for any government help that has been given out so far...for the various home owner help bailouts...
5) In my post, I said neither that I didn't want to help my felllow Americans, nor did I say that I wanted the economy to fail. You've jumped to conclusions in a rather simple minded way.
You are good-hearted, but misinformed.
Actually you are looking into it entirely to much. The bottom line is that however these people messed up finacialy, it has to be fixed, otherwise our economy will drop some more. pulling us into something worse than The Great Depression of the 1930s. And i havent jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry that you can't see past YOU and look at it for what it really is. PULLING OUR NATION OUT OF AN ECONOMIC CRISIS!
Ah, my friend, your basic assumptions are flawed. Did I already use the term 'simple-minded'?
Consider for a moment that this might just be a worse-than-usual recession. Recessions usually last about 11 months. One reads regularly that 'no one knows how bad this may be...'
That means NO ONE KNOWS...etc.
Sooo, some good-hearted but simple-minded (OOPS) individuals might be stampeded into signing on to just about any lame-brained (not simple-minded) plan to expand government, induce socialism, or just steal money. Possible?
My premise: let's be careful in introducing new proposals, and see if we know where we are going... or is that too simple-minded?
What if we are already coming out of the recession? Would that be a reason that the Dems are in such a hurry? What if there are indications that things are turning around, like...
"An estimated 37,836 new and resale houses and condos were sold in California last month. That was up 17.6 percent from 32,163 in November and up 47.9 percent from 25,585 for December 2007. Sales have increased on a year-over-year basis for the last six months. California sales for the month of December have varied from last year's low to a peak of 66,503 in 2003, while the average is 44,844. MDA DataQuick's statistics go back to 1988"
DQNews - California Press Release
The problem is far more complex than you implied in your original post. Add to your calculations:
1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
You are uninformed on this part PC, there most certainly is a way to know ALL OF THOSE THINGS...in fact flippers and vacation homes, or second and third homes, are not eligible for any government help that has been given out so far...for the various home owner help bailouts...
OBAMA: "We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. It's a plan that won't help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values."
THE FACTS: If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so.
FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow
Would you like to retract?
You are uninformed on this part PC, there most certainly is a way to know ALL OF THOSE THINGS...in fact flippers and vacation homes, or second and third homes, are not eligible for any government help that has been given out so far...for the various home owner help bailouts...
OBAMA: "We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. It's a plan that won't help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values."
THE FACTS: If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so.
FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow
Would you like to retract?
Oh and by the way it was YOUR former president that gave all the money to the banks in the first place. So should we be blaming Obama or Bush.
When your neighor's house is on fire, and is threatening to burn yours down with it, pitching to to put out the fire of their house, EVEN THOUGH THE FIRE IS ENTIRELY THEIR FAULT, still seems like a good idea to me.
But hey, I understand you basical complaint.
My house is not YET underwater, either.
The problem is far more complex than you implied in your original post. Add to your calculations:
1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
You are uninformed on this part PC, there most certainly is a way to know ALL OF THOSE THINGS...in fact flippers and vacation homes, or second and third homes, are not eligible for any government help that has been given out so far...for the various home owner help bailouts...
OBAMA: "We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. It's a plan that won't help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values."
THE FACTS: If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so.
FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow
Would you like to retract?
[/QUOTE]1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
You are uninformed on this part PC, there most certainly is a way to know ALL OF THOSE THINGS...in fact flippers and vacation homes, or second and third homes, are not eligible for any government help that has been given out so far...for the various home owner help bailouts...
OBAMA: "We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. It's a plan that won't help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values."
THE FACTS: If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so.
FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow
Would you like to retract?
One itty bitty part of it Beautiful Chic....can be retracted by me!
the rest I stick by!!!!
1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
OBAMA: "We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. It's a plan that won't help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values."
THE FACTS: If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so.
FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow
Would you like to retract?
One itty bitty part of it Beautiful Chic....can be retracted by me!
the rest I stick by!!!!
1) There is no way to determine whether those being bailed out are yuppies with an investment, crooks looking to flip a house for a quick profit, someone who purchases a second or third vacation house, or the ones that you imagine, with five kids, two jobs and a sudden illness.
you listed a yuppie with an investment= i presumed this to be a rental property?
And on this there is most certainly a way to discern whether someone refinancing is doing such for their home that they live in, (owner occupied) or a home they have as an investment...anyone's tax return shows this information and this information is required when you take out a conventional mortgage...at least it was for Matt and me some years back from Bank of America.
So, on that aspect of your comment, I can't retract because I am correct on this....it can be done.
Then on your next comment, I am a little confused why your are calling home flippers crooks, because they are the farthest thing from it....?
they were entrepreneurs, and took old run down homes and busted their butt fixing them and used their own capital in many cases, to renovate these homes in to livable, safe, and salable habitats....let alone employing a bunch of other people....making money on something like that is NOT criminal, not in the least....?
(maybe i am missing something about that trade?)
Setting this aside, there is also a way to determine to a near perfect degree whether this house was a house bought to flip or not....through ones tax return and what address is used as his home address and also if he owns another home that he lives in and is claiming the mortgage write off on his own taxes....
So on that part of your comment, I can't retract, because you were incorrect PC.
Then the third thing you mentioned was whether it was a vacation home getting the bail out or not....the same answer PC....this information is readily available on ones tax return.
So, again...can't renege my statement on that part of my comment either.
On the last comment of yours, one could find out if it was the five kids, A lender could find out if the person applying for the loan had 5 kids and could find out legally if the person had 2 jobs, but I don't believe that a lender could legally find out whether a person is going through a sudden illness or not.
Care
OK, OK, I'll settle for the itty bitty, missy.
But my cynicism extends to both owners of vacation homes, and lenders, as well as government cash-dispensers all having a vested interest in getting the dirty deal done. Home owners merely have to report that they live there 6 months and one day- many do this to vote twice. The other two merely have to profess belief.
I have behaved completely resposibly throughput my life. I have positioned myself as best as anyone could for this mess. I told people all through the Bush housing inflation that they cause to NOT take money out of their home, to not buy expensive cars and to save, save, save. That being said I am willing to do what is nessessary to fix this problem for many reasons.
1. I care about my fellow Americans.
2. I care about the long term viability of my country.
3. I care that childern will be living on the streets.
4. I care about the economy being pushed to a point that we will remain a weak third world type country while Countries like China and Russia will emerge before we do and OWN the world markets because they were willing to invest back in their own countries and we werent.
5. I care about the infrastructure of this country crumbling to the extent that we are not able to compete when the world economy does emerge.
6. I care that many of these people (fellow Americans) you chose to hate were actually lied to by their lending institution.
When will you people stop hating your fellow American long enough to pull together and do what NEEDS to be done to fix this country?
you're a socialist aren't you
There is nothing fucking socialist in that post.
you're a socialist aren't you
There is nothing fucking socialist in that post.
If you beleive in american tax dollars going to paying people bills.... sounds socialist to me
Our entire recession extends from the housing crisis PC.
There is no doubt that some people are going to benefit from this bailout that do not deserve the help....but I firmly believe there will be many, many, many more people that will be helped directly or indirectly from the housing market turn around.
Many people or institutions were at fault in this mess and any help to them is sickening, including the banks, the speculators, the home owners, the Fed, the Rating Agencies and the gvt regulators...and i surely missed a few.
This means we need to bite the bullet and accept the fact that some of the very people and institutions that caused this mess will benefit as well from the govt help put out there to stop this freefall in the market.
Obviously, the more focused our gvt is on fixing this area of our economy, the better it will be for all of us and the sooner Consumer Confidence will return to the marketplace and economy...and some of the bad players in this mess somehow making out on these measures is NOT A REASON to nix it from happening.
Care
