Over 16.3 million Americans now carry guns for self defense, the murder rate dropped another 2.5%...

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot, post: 18174191

. We have more guns, more people with concealed carry permits and our murder and violent crime rates are falling.

Nothing wrong with that statement. So there you go. The statistics have no correlation. Gun nuts should stick with the facts.

Like this:

The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year.

Trump fears terrorists, but more Americans are shot dead by toddlers | Gary Younge

More guns in homes means more kids killing people.

Gun nuts aren't that great.

The stats ARE a correlation.

The causation is questionable.

Suicide is a choice and just as many people kill themselves without a gun.
Accidental shooting deaths are very rare and are statistically insignificant.

Murders are committed by murderers and not guns. In fact more people are killed with fists and feet than are killed by all types of rifles combined, including the scary black "assault" rifles.

We have more guns in homes that we ever have and the murder and accidental gun death rates are both going down.

 

[harmonica]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

 

[Skull Pilot]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

I never said it reduced the murder rate but it sure as fuck doesn't increase the murder rate does it?

Our murder rate is what it was in 1950 and that's with more guns in the hands of more people and more people than ever with concealed carry licenses.

The Murder rate in the UK is slightly higher than it was in 1950 and that's with all their strict gun laws passed since the 1960's

Now tell me shouldn't the murder rate in the UK be LESS than it was before all those guns laws that you love so much were passed?

 

[Conservative65]

Yes....as we keep telling anti gunners, normal, law abiding gun owners, people who carry guns for self defense...aren't murdering other people. Therefore, they are not driving the crime rate, the murder rate or any crime rate......

We now have over 16.3 million Americans carrying guns for self defense, and our murder rate dropped another 2.5%.....showing that the entire argument from the anti gun crowd, is crap....

Carnage, Continued





=============
We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

From one of your links:

• A disproportionate share of gun homicide victims are black (55% in 2010, compared with the 13% black share of the population). Whites were 25% of victims but 65% of the population in 2010. Hispanics were 17% of victims and 16% of the population in 2010.

How many of you white Republican gun owners have personally gone into high crime black neighborhoods to reduce the homicide rate there.

Not a single one I'll bet. No real crime prevention from all your investment in guns.

The link credits the baby boomer generation producing young criminals and ties to gun violence from the illegal drug trade that peaked in 1993 and began a swift rate of decline which has slowed as all this conceal and open carry nonsense began spreading across the nation.

The baby boomer demographics effect on a decline in violent crime occurs similarly across western nations. Where more gun ownership was not a factor.

You lose again. You need to read what you post.

Are you saying that the disproportionately low number of white victims is because black Democrats personally went into white neighborhoods to reduce the homicide rate there?

 

[Conservative65]

JGalt, post: 18153501

I mostly carry it open and in plain view to piss off the liberals.

Feel like a real man do ya? Your self professed reason for carrying a loaded firearm in public shows your purpose is to express political hatred.

That is irresponsible on your part making you more a danger to public safety than whatever you believe the good that could come from carrying that weapon.

I see you clowns walking into a McDonald's or something and my first thought is I hope this jerk is mentally stable and not in some kind of rage after his wife or girlfriend dumped his ass for someone that isn't also carrying a beer belly.

When I read what you idiots that hate the 2nd amendment have to say about gun ownership my first thought is there's another one that claims guns are bad yet refuses to personally try and take them from the owners.

 

[Conservative65]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

 

[harmonica]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has many times the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries

if the US has gun ownership many times the European countries, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe--but it is many times higher
so ownership of guns means nothing to reducing murders

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

 

[Conservative65]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

 

[harmonica]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

very pro-gun St Louis is the murder capital of the US
St. Louis named murder capital of America – Report
STL murder rate much higher than gun-controlled Chicago, NYC, and LA
Chi, NYC, and LA also much denser population
very pro-gun Missouri has a higher murder rate than gun control California, Ill, and NY
this is all cross checked with STL high on the lists of most dangerous cities and CHi, NYC, and LA not

 

[harmonica]

In a population of 56 million, that adds up to about 50 to 60 gun killings annually. In the USA, by contrast, there are about 160 times as many gun homicides in a country that is roughly six times larger in population. There were 8,124 gun homicides in 2014, according to the latest FBI figures.

Gun violence rare in U.K. compared to U.S.

160 times the gun homicides in the US and the US has 16 times more gun ownership per person !!!!!!!!

 

[harmonica]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

 

[harmonica]

How Japan has almost eradicated gun crime

 

[Skull Pilot]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has many times the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries

if the US has gun ownership many times the European countries, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe--but it is many times higher
so ownership of guns means nothing to reducing murders

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

BUT the murder rate in the UK did not fall below the level it was BEFORE all their strict gun laws did it?

No it didn't.

Our murder rate is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite the fact that there are more guns in more hands and more people than ever have concealed carry permits

And you can't explain that can you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

How Japan has almost eradicated gun crime
View attachment 150356

So what?

Do you want to live in a country like Japan? I sure as hell don't.

 

[Skull Pilot]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

 

[Conservative65]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

Are you saying that if someone with the intention of killing another person didn't have a gun it would prevent the murder?

So you are saying someone killed by a NUT in a car is less dead than someone killed by NUT with a gun. Got it.

 

[Conservative65]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

Based on Harmonica's mindset, if someone having the intention to kill another person didn't have a gun, the murder wouldn't take place.

 

[Conservative65]

if owning guns, reduced the murder rate, the US should be murder free...but it has one of the highest murder rates of the developed countries

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

People like harmonica have an excuse for that fact.

 

[harmonica]

You don't take one simple factor into account. There are PEOPLE that misuse guns. The guns aren't doing the killing. They can't shoot themselves. It's PEOPLE misusing them doing the killing. Are you saying that if the person didn't use a gun the murder would not have occurred?

People use cars, knives, clubs, and all sorts of other things to kill someone else. Where's the outrage on placing strict limits on the use of them?

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

Based on Harmonica's mindset, if someone having the intention to kill another person didn't have a gun, the murder wouldn't take place.

very likely it wouldn't

 

[harmonica]

Germany vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Murder rate Germany 0.86 US 5