Opinion: I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

[shockedcanadian]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

 

[DGS49]

But don't forget, the jobs that have been "lost to China," with a few exceptions were crappy jobs in textiles and small manufacturing.

The good jobs in mining, auto production, steelmaking, heavy manufacturing, and so on have MAINLY been lost to automation and other productivity gains. Which means they are never coming back.

Maybe the solution is a 32-hour workweek.

 

[Correll]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

Good find, thanks.


"
Consider the case of U.S. Steel. In 2011, the Chinese government hacked its way into U.S. Steel’s computer systems and stole trade secrets. They passed the information to an assortment of Chinese steel companies, allowing these competitors to produce advanced steel products. As a consequence, we lost market share, and jobs.

Or consider the case of American Superconductor, which produces advanced software for wind turbines. In 2011, the company discovered that the Chinese Government had stolen its source code, giving it to their own corporation Sinovel. The result? Over 600 American workers lost their jobs and the company took a $1 billion hit in shareholder value. Adding insult to injury, China’s Sinovel later sold its wind turbines to the State of Massachusetts, paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The Chinese goal in all of this is clear: grow their economy through theft, and at the expense of American innovation."

 

[Pete7469]

OK...

NO...

You are not a "laissez-faire economist" and a democrook.

You CANNOT be both.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

We had a major technology company in the 1990's in Canada named Nortel. T
Good find, tha


"
Consider the case of U.S. Steel. In 2011, the Chinese government hacked its way into U.S. Steel’s computer systems and stole trade secrets. They passed the information to an assortment of Chinese steel companies, allowing these competitors to produce advanced steel products. As a consequence, we lost market share, and jobs.

Or consider the case of American Superconductor, which produces advanced software for wind turbines. In 2011, the company discovered that the Chinese Government had stolen its source code, giving it to their own corporation Sinovel. The result? Over 600 American workers lost their jobs and the company took a $1 billion hit in shareholder value. Adding insult to injury, China’s Sinovel later sold its wind turbines to the State of Massachusetts, paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The Chinese goal in all of this is clear: grow their economy through theft, and at the expense of American innovation."

We had a large technology company in the 1990's named Nortel here in Canada. It turned out that China had full access and interception of emails between CEO's and their underlings for over a decade. CSIS and the RCMP had failed to catch them and they basically had access to anything and everything they wanted.

Nothing like circumventing R&D and other messy details when you can steal the information.

 

[Correll]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

We had a major technology company in the 1990's in Canada named Nortel. T
Good find, tha


"
Consider the case of U.S. Steel. In 2011, the Chinese government hacked its way into U.S. Steel’s computer systems and stole trade secrets. They passed the information to an assortment of Chinese steel companies, allowing these competitors to produce advanced steel products. As a consequence, we lost market share, and jobs.

Or consider the case of American Superconductor, which produces advanced software for wind turbines. In 2011, the company discovered that the Chinese Government had stolen its source code, giving it to their own corporation Sinovel. The result? Over 600 American workers lost their jobs and the company took a $1 billion hit in shareholder value. Adding insult to injury, China’s Sinovel later sold its wind turbines to the State of Massachusetts, paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The Chinese goal in all of this is clear: grow their economy through theft, and at the expense of American innovation."

We had a large technology company in the 1990's named Nortel here in Canada. It turned out that China had full access and interception of emails between CEO's and their underlings for over a decade. CSIS and the RCMP had failed to catch them and they basically had access to anything and everything they wanted.

Nothing like circumventing R&D and other messy details when you can steal the information.

This is not "Free Trade".

 

[owebo]

But don't forget, the jobs that have been "lost to China," with a few exceptions were crappy jobs in textiles and small manufacturing.

The good jobs in mining, auto production, steelmaking, heavy manufacturing, and so on have MAINLY been lost to automation and other productivity gains. Which means they are never coming back.

Maybe the solution is a 32-hour workweek.

Wow....another clueless fucktard.....how embarrassing....

 

[shockedcanadian]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

We had a major technology company in the 1990's in Canada named Nortel. T
Good find, tha


"
Consider the case of U.S. Steel. In 2011, the Chinese government hacked its way into U.S. Steel’s computer systems and stole trade secrets. They passed the information to an assortment of Chinese steel companies, allowing these competitors to produce advanced steel products. As a consequence, we lost market share, and jobs.

Or consider the case of American Superconductor, which produces advanced software for wind turbines. In 2011, the company discovered that the Chinese Government had stolen its source code, giving it to their own corporation Sinovel. The result? Over 600 American workers lost their jobs and the company took a $1 billion hit in shareholder value. Adding insult to injury, China’s Sinovel later sold its wind turbines to the State of Massachusetts, paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The Chinese goal in all of this is clear: grow their economy through theft, and at the expense of American innovation."

We had a large technology company in the 1990's named Nortel here in Canada. It turned out that China had full access and interception of emails between CEO's and their underlings for over a decade. CSIS and the RCMP had failed to catch them and they basically had access to anything and everything they wanted.

Nothing like circumventing R&D and other messy details when you can steal the information.

This is not "Free Trade".

Clearly. Neither of our countries have a free trade agreement with China...yet. These are state abuses.

Canada engages in these state abuses also against American corporations. They will enter American corporations on Canada soil, they could be the largest and most well known corporations the Canadian Security Apparatus doesn't care, they will suggest and spread interest in a union and other underhanded tactics that inject grievances between employer and employee within the company. I know of at least three companies in which these tactics were used, in one case the company just closed shop and left.

It's an old Communist trick in a nation used in Canada, a nation that tells the world we are a capitalist economy which wants foreign investment but then stabs such business investment in the back. We had the mayor or Toronto John Tory, Premier of Ontario Kathleen Wynne AND our PM Trudeau each at one time or another push for business and trade with Japan over the last year. None of these advances were accepted. Meanwhile, Trump who is more than a month away from actually taking power, negotiates and gets buy in from a Japanese CEO to invest $50B in America.

The fact is that Canada isn't trusted. We might not be as bad and overt as China, but we have done massive damage to our reputation and economic prospects. Regardless, these kinds of methods aren't kept secret forever, which is why China is being called out, and Trump even called out Canada without naming us when he spoke out against the softlumber dispute.

 

[Correll]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

We had a major technology company in the 1990's in Canada named Nortel. T
Good find, tha


"
Consider the case of U.S. Steel. In 2011, the Chinese government hacked its way into U.S. Steel’s computer systems and stole trade secrets. They passed the information to an assortment of Chinese steel companies, allowing these competitors to produce advanced steel products. As a consequence, we lost market share, and jobs.

Or consider the case of American Superconductor, which produces advanced software for wind turbines. In 2011, the company discovered that the Chinese Government had stolen its source code, giving it to their own corporation Sinovel. The result? Over 600 American workers lost their jobs and the company took a $1 billion hit in shareholder value. Adding insult to injury, China’s Sinovel later sold its wind turbines to the State of Massachusetts, paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The Chinese goal in all of this is clear: grow their economy through theft, and at the expense of American innovation."

We had a large technology company in the 1990's named Nortel here in Canada. It turned out that China had full access and interception of emails between CEO's and their underlings for over a decade. CSIS and the RCMP had failed to catch them and they basically had access to anything and everything they wanted.

Nothing like circumventing R&D and other messy details when you can steal the information.

This is not "Free Trade".

Clearly. Neither of our countries have a free trade agreement with China...yet. These are state abuses.

Canada engages in these state abuses also against American corporations. They will enter American corporations on Canada soil, they could be the largest and most well known corporations the Canadian Security Apparatus doesn't care, they will suggest and spread interest in a union and other underhanded tactics that inject grievances between employer and employee within the company. I know of at least three companies in which these tactics were used, in one case the company just closed shop and left.

It's an old Communist trick in a nation used in Canada, a nation that tells the world we are a capitalist economy which wants foreign investment but then stabs such business investment in the back. We had the mayor or Toronto John Tory, Premier of Ontario Kathleen Wynne AND our PM Trudeau each at one time or another push for business and trade with Japan over the last year. None of these advances were accepted. Meanwhile, Trump who is more than a month away from actually taking power, negotiates and gets buy in from a Japanese CEO to invest $50B in America.

The fact is that Canada isn't trusted. We might not be as bad and overt as China, but we have done massive damage to our reputation and economic prospects. Regardless, these kinds of methods aren't kept secret forever, which is why China is being called out, and Trump even called out Canada without naming us when he spoke out against the softlumber dispute.

We are just about everyone's bitch when it comes to Trade.

Luckily for you, China is so bad it will draw the most attention.

But, hopefully the US government will start actually DOING IT'S JOB across the board.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I'm a Democrat but I've gotta admit it's now Trump 2, Dems 0

An interesting article that I think summarizes some thoughts for many people. Even laissez-faire economists like myself have to consider the long term ramifications of arming China, which big business has. It's one thing for China to remain peaceful, quite another to watch them militarize and expand into the South Sea.

A small section from the article:

To be sure, Americans have gotten a lot of cheap goods in return for this deal. But there’s a catch: millions of voters no longer have the jobs – or a livable income – to afford them. Initially, economists believed that this would be a temporary condition. Surely, they argued, these unemployed workers would find new jobs that paid just as good as the old.

Last summer, however, academics released a study that took 38 pages to acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. It turns out that our political class had sold off the American dream to the Chinese and given blue-collar workers – and their communities – an economic nightmare in its place.

But it gets worse. That’s because China hasn’t been content to just take American jobs through unfair competition. They’re stealing them via cyber-warfare too.

We had a major technology company in the 1990's in Canada named Nortel. T
Good find, tha


"
Consider the case of U.S. Steel. In 2011, the Chinese government hacked its way into U.S. Steel’s computer systems and stole trade secrets. They passed the information to an assortment of Chinese steel companies, allowing these competitors to produce advanced steel products. As a consequence, we lost market share, and jobs.

Or consider the case of American Superconductor, which produces advanced software for wind turbines. In 2011, the company discovered that the Chinese Government had stolen its source code, giving it to their own corporation Sinovel. The result? Over 600 American workers lost their jobs and the company took a $1 billion hit in shareholder value. Adding insult to injury, China’s Sinovel later sold its wind turbines to the State of Massachusetts, paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The Chinese goal in all of this is clear: grow their economy through theft, and at the expense of American innovation."

We had a large technology company in the 1990's named Nortel here in Canada. It turned out that China had full access and interception of emails between CEO's and their underlings for over a decade. CSIS and the RCMP had failed to catch them and they basically had access to anything and everything they wanted.

Nothing like circumventing R&D and other messy details when you can steal the information.

This is not "Free Trade".

Clearly. Neither of our countries have a free trade agreement with China...yet. These are state abuses.

Canada engages in these state abuses also against American corporations. They will enter American corporations on Canada soil, they could be the largest and most well known corporations the Canadian Security Apparatus doesn't care, they will suggest and spread interest in a union and other underhanded tactics that inject grievances between employer and employee within the company. I know of at least three companies in which these tactics were used, in one case the company just closed shop and left.

It's an old Communist trick in a nation used in Canada, a nation that tells the world we are a capitalist economy which wants foreign investment but then stabs such business investment in the back. We had the mayor or Toronto John Tory, Premier of Ontario Kathleen Wynne AND our PM Trudeau each at one time or another push for business and trade with Japan over the last year. None of these advances were accepted. Meanwhile, Trump who is more than a month away from actually taking power, negotiates and gets buy in from a Japanese CEO to invest $50B in America.

The fact is that Canada isn't trusted. We might not be as bad and overt as China, but we have done massive damage to our reputation and economic prospects. Regardless, these kinds of methods aren't kept secret forever, which is why China is being called out, and Trump even called out Canada without naming us when he spoke out against the softlumber dispute.

We are just about everyone's bitch when it comes to Trade.

Luckily for you, China is so bad it will draw the most attention.

But, hopefully the US government will start actually DOING IT'S JOB across the board.

See people use the term "protectionist" to describe Trumps threats to tariff. Now in theory, I don't agree with tariffs, BUT, they have a place when dealing with a state that doesn't engage in fair tactics in business, or in human rights.

Canada's method of protectionism is simple, "if we don't want your business here, you won't be here". Sometimes it is straightforward such as in heavy regulations and restrictions on who can be a bank, to protect the formerly state run banks (you can be sure they still have many federal employees in their ranks). Outright denial of competition and entry in our markets, such as in telecom and internet services. To having major sectors owned and run by government, from hydro to alcohol distribution and sales, to healthcare.

There was a time I recall that Americans would call Canadians "communists" and I would laugh. I met a few when in America over a decade ago and some who were visiting Toronto. I wasn't as well educated on politics and economic systems as I am now so I did chuckle and take it for what it is. As I've seen our system defined and more blatant, I can understand how Americans would view Canada in that manner. Especially in regards to our freedoms and accountability of government...