Oh...it's not a 'baby' or a 'person' - it's just a FETUS...a clump of tissue!

[rtwngAvngr]

Your statements become more bizzare every time you reply. What are mustlims?

You are hereby on my ignore list.

It's obviously a typo, you oafish ninny. I thought you were mr. tough superjew. Now you run from the fight? You're a loser.

 

[ajwps]

OK, so monkeys can smile in utero. And humans can look like animals in utero. What's your point? You believe in evolution? All it demonstrates, for purposes of our argument, is that animals in utero are just as alive as humans in utero are.

Point you ask? The point is that embryos smiling and looking alike do not prove the soul or cognant life exists in either the pre-born animal or human? I do not believe in evolution at all. As a matter of fact, I believe totally in creationism. It is just that I don't believe that G-d would mislead mankind about human life. It is apparent that you have decided when the human soul enters the body based on movement or smiling or what the pro-life murderers of doctors tell you.

Since a human baby/fetus is obviously doing lively things in the uterus it is obviously alive and since it is a human fetus it obviously is human. Therefore we have "HUMAN LIFE". Voila! :baby:

What do you mean by the word OBVIOUSLY? So human fetuses doing lively things in utero do NOT obviously prove anything whatsoevere. Voila! There is nothing obvious about anything.

Bonnie is right, your argument is cutting both ways. It would help to know just where you stand on the matter in order to have a rational argument or to know if you are just throwing around some ideas.

Not at all. It is Bonnie and yourself that are obviously throwing around your own ideas about human life. I give you rational coherent logic and rational (both religious and scientific) while you simply repeat ideas that you both BELIEVE to be true. Human life is precious and something no one can comprehend in the slightest.

The only proof comes in the form of the origin of all human's concept that our life essence is unique among all other forms of life on earth. We all believe that we receive this special LIFE FORCE as a gift. For anyone to place their own interpretations on the moment that a human receives a soul (LIFE) is to be so egotistical that the origin or source of this information is changed.

 

[ajwps]

Just My 2 cents
I don't believe in God (or at least not the one the Bible speaks of)
but I do give credit to a creator, and I don't think we were meant to fuck with
their creations. Ya ya it's a womans body, but..... was woman given the choice to
be physically able to bring life to this world, No. so why should we throw a wrench
in the plans??? The life you take might just be YOUR next "Christ".

So you'r agnostic because you do not believe in a formal god or religion. And you throw in what you THINK man was meant to interfer with a forming group of cells. Woman have the choice to get pregnant, the choice to have a baby to term and put it up for adoption, have her baby and raise it or to terminate the pregnancy.

This is a woman's choice and her own decision making process that she will have to live with the remainder of her life. No government has the right to interfer in humanity's moral decision makng ability unless the taking of living breathing human beings are threatened by others. Then there are laws which keep people from taking human lives unless they risk giving their own up in a 'life for a life.'

 

[ajwps]

You bring up another good point d. AJ it's none of my business what your age is, but I wonder how scared you would be if at some point you become disabled or just old and someone deems you unworthy to live anymore and decides to end your life, and suddenly you have no choice, but you desperately want more life. Some young elitist snot nose thinks you are no longer a viable human, maybe your family doesn't want you anymore???
Im still young but I worry about that, because once you start taking away a babies choice to have life you open a pandoras box for everything else.

That is true. It is not anyone's business about my age. But death and dying is not one of the things that concerns me. You are talking about what is called the 'slippery slope.' Actually I am aware of things that many people have not had to face or acknowledge in their own lifetimes. There are people who are lingering in long-term care facilities who are either not aware of their surroundings or they are in so much pain and misery that they have no quality to their life.

Many physicians work with families of these very ill people who have no hope of becoming productive humans or of living without severe intractible pain. Some doctors quietly advise the family of what their loved ones are facing. There are people languishing for years in nursing homes, with their heads in their laps, drooling and suffering from moment to moment. Their times have not come to leave this earthly veil of tears.

For anyone to decide to take their lives is not only illegal but immoral. For the taking of anyone's life even one second before they die naturally is a sin and illegal.

But that slippery slope concept has been used in certain organizations (like the Hemlock society) in which a person can voluntarily and painlessly take their own life or a family member can decide that their loved one has no brain life (HUMAN LIFE OR SOUL) but the body continues to breathe, the heart beats and food is forced fed can have a doctor give them a mild overdose of a narcotic allowing the person to slip off.

You are also taking about someone making the decision for you but there is also an order that most people sign when they enter a hospital called a DNR request. (Do Not Recessitate). In other words, no extra-ordinary means or machines are used to maintain life and the person passes away naturally.

None of this applies to the unborn for there is no evidence (other than movement) that the fetus has a human soul. That is metaphysics or what some people like to refer to as a belief in a Creator who has advised mankind in His Bible that there is no HUMAN LIFE in the forming fetus. The fact that abortion has now been around for 31 years and there has been no pandora's box opened for anything else.

Every human being, man or woman, has the free will and knowledge that what they do in this life has consequences. Roe vs Wade simply stated that the federal government can't legislate anybody's morality or ethical behavior when it has to do with their own lives.

And like it or not, that is a FACT....

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There are people who are lingering in long-term care facilities who are either not aware of their surroundings or they are in so much pain and misery that they have no quality to their life.

That's not your decision to make.

Many physicians work with families of these very ill people who have no hope of becoming productive humans or of living without severe intractible pain. Some doctors quietly advise the family of what their loved ones are facing. There are people languishing for years in nursing homes, with their heads in their laps, drooling and suffering from moment to moment. Their times have not come to leave this earthly veil of tears.

For anyone to decide to take their lives is not only illegal but immoral. For the taking of anyone's life even one second before they die naturally is a sin and illegal.

But killing innocent living human babies is fine?

None of this applies to the unborn for there is no evidence (other than movement) that the fetus has a human soul.

Wrong. Moving. Smiling. looking around. facial expressions. brain waves. Where is the evidence of a human soul AFTER birth then, which allows you to so conclusively state euthanasia is wrong?

Every human being, man or woman, has the free will and knowledge that what they do in this life has consequences.

You should take this to heart.

Roe vs Wade simply stated that the federal government can't legislate anybody's morality or ethical behavior when it has to do with their own lives.

And like it or not, that is a FACT....

It may be a fact, but laws are not always morally correct, nor do they always reflect the truth of the world.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

So you'r agnostic because you do not believe in a formal god or religion. And you throw in what you THINK man was meant to interfer with a forming group of cells. Woman have the choice to get pregnant, the choice to have a baby to term and put it up for adoption, have her baby and raise it or to terminate the pregnancy.

This is a woman's choice and her own decision making process that she will have to live with the remainder of her life. No government has the right to interfer in humanity's moral decision makng ability unless the taking of living breathing human beings are threatened by others. Then there are laws which keep people from taking human lives unless they risk giving their own up in a 'life for a life.'

No.. I 'm agnostic because I don't believe in the TRADITIONAL GOD OR GOD'S
RELIGION!!! I'm not an athiest. That "group of cells" still has a living soul, and
I don't think man was made to undo that part of creation. I have might right to
think whatever I want, and I don't think in any circumstance that you should
take human life. Not after I have taken one myself.

 

[DKSuddeth]

It may be a fact, but laws are not always morally correct, nor do they always reflect the truth of the world.

Laws in this country are not made because of 'moral correctness', they are made with financial interests in mind. THAT is the truth of the world.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Since aj has me on ignore, I can call him Maude and he won't even see it! This is awesome.

AJ's real name is Maude! :

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Laws in this country are not made because of 'moral correctness', they are made with financial interests in mind. THAT is the truth of the world.

No it's not mr. cynical. Laws are to provide a framework for us to interact without acting like animals. It's about civilization. Money is just an abstraction of value.

 

[DKSuddeth]

No it's not mr. cynical. Laws are to provide a framework for us to interact without acting like animals. It's about civilization. Money is just an abstraction of value.

wrong. you know this. It's ALL about money, how much it costs, how much liability, how much return, etc......

 

[ajwps]

No.. I 'm agnostic because I don't believe in the TRADITIONAL GOD OR GOD'S RELIGION!!! I'm not an athiest.

Exactly what I said concerning your own statements. Read my reply again.

That "group of cells" still has a living soul, and I don't think man was made to undo that part of creation. I have might right to think whatever I want, and I don't think in any circumstance that you should take human life. Not after I have taken one myself.

You again are correct. You are a free individual who can think anyway you want. No one has any legal or ethical right to make you think anything other than what you personally believe.

On what do you base your creation 'part conclusions' about cell groups having human souls? Is it just a gut feeling?

It is understandable that you now have thoughts about the taking of a human being's life. The guilt associated with this act without a belief in a particular Creator is something one cannot get out of one's head even if it occurs during a war or done protecting you our your families life.

The fact that abortion is considered taking human life is based solely on BELIEF that a soul or human life exists in a forming group of cells (really the dust of the earth) being formed into a living human being in such a complex way that can not be comprehended by anyone.

You have every right to believe that there is life in a forming fetus. That is your right....

 

[ajwps]

Laws in this country are not made because of 'moral correctness', they are made with financial interests in mind. THAT is the truth of the world.

Laws in this land are not based on moral correctness or on financial interests. An amazing group of men (the framers of the Constitution) used this document to create a system of justice, protective clauses and equality of men previously unknown by mankind.

The fact that this Consitution was penned to paper is the most unusual event in the history of mankind. What gave these men the ability to create such a document?

 

[dilloduck]

Laws in this land are not based on moral correctness or on financial interests. An amazing group of men (the framers of the Constitution) used this document to create a system of justice, protective clauses and equality of men previously unknown by mankind.

The fact that this Consitution was penned to paper is the most unusual event in the history of mankind. What gave these men the ability to create such a document?

Ink?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

wrong. you know this. It's ALL about money, how much it costs, how much liability, how much return, etc......

What a sad materialistic view you possess.

 

[dmp]

What a sad materialistic view you possess.

I think Duane is 90% on target - most laws we have; at least those for which one can be fined, are not in place to stop or restrict behaviour, but to generate revenue.

 

[DKSuddeth]

What a sad materialistic view you possess.

its not MY materialistic view, its the governments.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think Duane is 90% on target - most laws we have; at least those for which one can be fined, are not in place to stop or restrict behaviour, but to generate revenue.

In the sense that a society that lives by rules, where contracts are enforceable etc is good for commerce, I guess so. I guess not lying is just a cynical constuct designed by the man to collect monies due. Laws against killing are just to stop the noble savages from killing the white overlords who evilly rule society.

Logic itself is just a tool of the bourgeoise, right? You've lost it bro. You think moi was tough. try me!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

its not MY materialistic view, its the governments.

Is that really the only function you see for laws? That's too bad if true.

 

[dmp]

I guess not lying is just a cynical constuct designed by the man to collect monies due. Laws against killing are just to stop the noble savages from killing the white overlords who evilly rule society.

Logic itself is just a tool of the bourgeoise, right? You've lost it bro. You think moi was tough. try me!

No need to be sardonic...Read what I typed again:

those for which one can be fined, are not in place to stop or restrict behaviour, but to generate revenue.

Did I write "Every law"? Did I write "Capital Crimes"?.

Those are rhetorical questions, btw.


You'll be fine as long as you don't turn into an asshole/throw insults because you can't/won't understand what you read

 

[Bonnie]

Laws in this country are not made because of 'moral correctness', they are made with financial interests in mind. THAT is the truth of the world.

So then you admit that Roe v Wade was made soley for the purpose of financial gain by groups like NARAL and NOW to line the pockets of Pro Abortion candidates????
Thank You for the validation