Oh...it's not a 'baby' or a 'person' - it's just a FETUS...a clump of tissue!

[Bullypulpit]

Oh yes. It's a gender issue; it's not about life and death at all. Do you hear yourself? Your mindset is a tragedy.

It's about equating the potential with the actual. It's about setting the life of a fetus ahead of the life and health of the mother. It's about the power to tell a woman to ignore her own hopes, aspirations and health in favor of a fetus. It's about the power to dictate what a woman can, and can't, do with her own life. It has nothing to do with the fetus...The "pro-life" movemment only want the power to say "Thou shalt and thou shalt not...".

 

[Bullypulpit]

What did I lose. It's obvious babies are alive in utero prior to birth. You admit it yourself when you discuss their autoerotica. Your constant deflection and lies are blatantly apparent to all.

A key issue that you seem to be ignoring is that the viability of the fetus outside the womb.

Your constant mis-statement, oversimplification, omission and obfuscation are blatantly apparent to all.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So rtwngAveangr, when you masterbate, does that in any way prove that you have a HUMAN LIFE within your being?

I don't think so...

Any nonpsychotic would rightfully infer life from that activity. Do you have a mental disability?

 

[ajwps]

Any nonpsychotic would rightfully infer life from that activity. Do you have a mental disability?

Boy are you stepping into something about which you haven't the faintest idea.

Masterbation, limb movement and position changes in utero are nothing more nor less than neurological stimuli responses. If you stick a pin in your skin, you feel pain and have a neurological response which causes you to pull away. You infer that this indicates HUMAN LIFE is present in the pre-born or even in your own disabled ego. Animals in utero do the same thing and do not have HUMAN LIFE.

Unless you hold yourself as some kind of theologian, you have no idea of the difference between nerve responses and HUMAN LIFE being present.

You really should quit making statements before making yourself appear to be more than just a mere microenecephalic.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Boy are you stepping into something about which you haven't the faintest idea.

Masterbation, limb movement and position changes in utero are nothing more nor less than neurological stimuli responses. If you stick a pin in your skin, you feel pain and have a neurological response which causes you to pull away. You infer that this indicates HUMAN LIFE is present in the pre-born or even in your own disabled ego. Animals in utero do the same thing and do not have HUMAN LIFE.

Unless you hold yourself as some kind of theologian, you have no idea of the difference between nerve responses and HUMAN LIFE being present.

You really should quit making statements before making yourself appear to be more than just a mere microenecephalic.

Hey aj. Getting a little tired of looking foolish? Seems you are. And you react thusly. Your last several days on the board have proven you are an arrogant liar who cannot have a reasonable conversation. You have politicized this issue, you deny human life when it obviously exists and that is evil. You are evil. You are no person of god.

 

[ajwps]

Hey aj. Getting a little tired of looking foolish? Seems you are. And you react thusly. Your last several days on the board have proven you are an arrogant liar who cannot have a reasonable conversation. You have politicized this issue, you deny human life when it obviously exists and that is evil. You are evil. You are no person of god.

Calling me a liar, arrogant, denying your version of human life and evil simply places you in the catagory of becoming frustrated and impotent.

RtwngAvngr shows his face.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Calling me a liar, arrogant, denying your version of human life and evil simply places you in the catagory of becoming frustrated and impotent.

RtwngAvngr shows his face.

Keep repeating it. Maybe someday you'll actually believe it.

You know your assertions are spurious and your conclusions contorted, you ideas absurd and you morality questionable.

But still let's go kill some mustlims.

 

[Bonnie]

Any nonpsychotic would rightfully infer life from that activity. Do you have a mental disability?

You are missing the point RW, here we have Bully and AJ relegating a human baby to the importance of a Cabbage Patch Doll.......they have chosen to think this way for what ever reasons, and Im sure we could go back and forth with this till hell gets frosty, sadly it just doesn't matter to them, especially to AJ who has taken a hypocratic oath to preserve life, but he has decided that he is worthyof deciding which lives are worthy and which ones are not.......That's it. Tragic

 

[rtwngAvngr]

A key issue that you seem to be ignoring is that the viability of the fetus outside the womb.

Your constant mis-statement, oversimplification, omission and obfuscation are blatantly apparent to all.

So viability is the key? If your grandma needs to be on a respirator but is otherwise fine, knitting and watching soaps, then she is not alive? Come on. Now who's oversimplifying?

Give one example of one of my mistatements, oversimplifications, omissions, or obfuscations.

 

[ajwps]

You are missing the point RW, here we have Bully and AJ relegating a human baby to the importance of a Cabbage Patch Doll.......they have chosen to think this way for what ever reasons, and Im sure we could go back and forth with this till hell gets frosty, sadly it just doesn't matter to them, especially to AJ who has taken a hypocratic oath to preserve life, but he has decided that he is worthyof deciding which lives are worthy and which ones are not.......That's it. Tragic

Bonnie where do you find that I said a human baby is equivalent to a Cabbage Patch Doll? I said a human baby has every right to life and existence as you or me.

You are the one that appears to equate a Cabbage Patch Doll to a human baby. I have sworn an oath to perserve human life and to do no harm to human life.

Simply because you in your own wisdom choose to believe in the 1869 Catholic Church edict that life begins at conception has no relevance to reality. If you are looking to your church and NT Bible to find one statement that uterine embryonic existence is life or even one word about abortion mentioned, you are going to find absolutely nothing.

Your opinion is yours but does not reflect what G-d said. In effect you now find yourself overruling G-d and His words.

Are you greater than G-d?

 

[ajwps]

Keep repeating it. Maybe someday you'll actually believe it.

You know your assertions are spurious and your conclusions contorted, you ideas absurd and you morality questionable.

But still let's go kill some mustlims.

Your statements become more bizzare every time you reply. What are mustlims?

You are hereby on my ignore list.

 

[Bonnie]

Bonnie where do you find that I said a human baby is equivalent to a Cabbage Patch Doll? I said a human baby has every right to life and existence as you or me.

You are the one that appears to equate a Cabbage Patch Doll to a human baby. I have sworn an oath to perserve human life and to do no harm to human life.

Simply because you in your own wisdom choose to believe in the 1869 Catholic Church edict that life begins at conception has no relevance to reality. If you are looking to your church and NT Bible to find one statement that uterine embryonic existence is life or even one word about abortion mentioned, you are going to find absolutely nothing.

Your opinion is yours but does not reflect what G-d said. In effect you now find yourself overruling G-d and His words.

Are you greater than G-d?

Apparently you are greater than God? So which is it, do you protect human life or do you destroy it? Because you have made a nice little argument for yourself in which you have it both ways, and you have even managed to presume you know for absolute certain that God thinks it perfectly okay to rip apart a baby in the womb. So the mother gets a choice.......terrific. What choice does the baby have??? In your mind the BABY has none thus relegating it to an object...........Again I say how sad and tragic for you and for any baby you may have unecessarily killed that had the right to life if not with it's birth mother than with someone who would truly appraciate that baby!!!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I have sworn an oath to perserve human life and to do no harm to human life.

Acknowledging it's existence is the first step.

Simply because you in your own wisdom choose to believe in the 1869 Catholic Church edict that life begins at conception has no relevance to reality.

At conception is not the issue here. Your insistence, however, that it doesn't begin until a baby is out of the womb is assinine on it's face and rings false and ridiculous to anyone with half a clue.

If you are looking to your church and NT Bible to find one statement that uterine embryonic existence is life or even one word about abortion mentioned, you are going to find absolutely nothing.

Your opinion is yours but does not reflect what G-d said. In effect you now find yourself overruling G-d and His words.

Are you greater than G-d?

We are not making biblical arguments. Babies in uterine display all the signs we use to quantify life extrauterinely. I think you accidentally took the hypocritical oath. I know they sound similar.

 

[ajwps]

Apparently you are greater than God? So which is it, do you protect human life or do you destroy it? Because you have made a nice little argument for yourself in which you have it both ways, and you have even managed to presume you know for absolute certain that God thinks it perfectly okay to rip apart a baby in the womb. So the mother gets a choice.......terrific. What choice does the baby have??? In your mind the BABY has none thus relegating it to an object...........Again I say how sad and tragic for you and for any baby you may have unecessarily killed that had the right to life if not with it's birth mother than with someone who would truly appraciate that baby!!!

As I have said before, I have never performed an abortion in my professional career. It is not my speciality and don't think I would perform them if abortion was in my scope of practice.

There are many people who are unable to conceive and would love to adopt a baby but it is my decision to make. That decision is left up to the pregnant woman and her conscious.

As for the fetus having a choice, you might want to look at it this way.

There is one female ova (egg) and about 300,000,000 sperm swimming to be the first one to get into that ova. The chances of even that one those 300 million sperm winning that race are astronomical in order for cell differentiation to occur. Even then, the chances that something goes wrong and the developmental changes between three layers (endoderm, mesoderm and ectoderm) of cells forming into an object that looks the same as fish, mice, monkey, elephant and human embryos are wrought with chance formation. And yet millions upon millions of humans are born into the world, take their first breath and then try to survive their first year of life. Abortion is just another one of those reasons for this group of differentiating cells to stop further formation.

If the Bible gives man the concept of a human life or soul, then it is in the same Bible to give a reason that a human soul or life exists therein. It does not.....

Ergo you have made up your mind that you know more than your Creator. I can't argue with such a superior knowledge than G-d Himself.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There are many people who are unable to conceive and would love to adopt a baby but it is my decision to make. That decision is left up to the pregnant woman and her conscious.

Again you try to make it a female choice issue. It's not. It's a life and death issue. Can a woman kill her baby after it's born? Maybe that should also be her choice. Your solution to this obvious conundrum is to deny life exists. That's evil.

As for the fetus having a choice, you might want to look at it this way.

There is one female ova (egg) and about 300,000,000 sperm swimming to be the first one to get into that ova. The chances of even that one those 300 million sperm winning that race are astronomical in order for cell differentiation to occur. Even then, the chances that something goes wrong and the developmental changes between three layers (endoderm, mesoderm and ectoderm) of cells forming into an object that looks the same as fish, mice, monkey, elephant and human embryos are wrought with chance formation. And yet millions upon millions of humans are born into the world, take their first breath and then try to survive their first year of life. Abortion is just another one of those reasons for this group of differentiating cells to stop further formation.

If the Bible gives man the concept of a human life or soul, then it is in the same Bible to give a reason that a human soul or life exists therein. It does not.....

Ergo you have made up your mind that you know more than your Creator. I can't argue with such a superior knowledge than G-d Himself.

Even developement and differentiation of cells is life. Describing the process is irrelevant to the argument. But you got to show off, dintcha. That must have been fun for you.

My argument is not theological at all. Even atheists believe in life, i believe.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Did you know that a monkey can also smile in utero and a human embryo can masturbate in utero? Also early on in fetal developement, human fetuses have gill slits and a tail and live in a water filled placenta that is nothing more than sea water. Very early human fetuses look just like mice, fish, zebras and lemurs.

HUMAN LIFE? Is that your professional opinion?

OK, so monkeys can smile in utero. And humans can look like animals in utero. What's your point? You believe in evolution? All it demonstrates, for purposes of our argument, is that animals in utero are just as alive as humans in utero are.

Since a human baby/fetus is obviously doing lively things in the uterus it is obviously alive and since it is a human fetus it obviously is human. Therefore we have "HUMAN LIFE". Voila! :baby:

Bonnie is right, your argument is cutting both ways. It would help to know just where you stand on the matter in order to have a rational argument or to know if you are just throwing around some ideas.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

OK, so monkeys can smile in utero. And humans can look like animals in utero. What's your point? You believe in evolution? All it demonstrates, for purposes of our argument, is that animals in utero are just as alive as humans in utero are.

Since a human baby/fetus is obviously doing lively things in the uterus it is obviously alive and since it is a human fetus it obviously is human. Therefore we have "HUMAN LIFE". Voila! :baby:

Bonnie is right, your argument is cutting both ways. It would help to know just where you stand on the matter in order to have a rational argument or to know if you are just throwing around some ideas.

It's easy. He's a paranoid jew who would like nothing better than a generation of white christians to kill their children.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Just My 2 cents
I don't believe in God (or at least not the one the Bible speaks of)
but I do give credit to a creator, and I don't think we were meant to fuck with
their creations. Ya ya it's a womans body, but..... was woman given the choice to
be physically able to bring life to this world, No. so why should we throw a wrench
in the plans??? The life you take might just be YOUR next "Christ".

 

[dmp]

Viability...I'd bet there are thousands of coma victims in this nation which by all measurements are 'less viable' than these babies we are killing. Yet we cannot simply 'kill off' those people because they have been 'not able to live without the aid of machines'.

(shrug).

 

[Bonnie]

Viability...I'd bet there are thousands of coma victims in this nation which by all measurements are 'less viable' than these babies we are killing. Yet we cannot simply 'kill off' those people because they have been 'not able to live without the aid of machines'.

(shrug).

You bring up another good point d. AJ it's none of my business what your age is, but I wonder how scared you would be if at some point you become disabled or just old and someone deems you unworthy to live anymore and decides to end your life, and suddenly you have no choice, but you desperately want more life. Some young elitist snot nose thinks you are no longer a viable human, maybe your family doesn't want you anymore???
Im still young but I worry about that, because once you start taking away a babies choice to have life you open a pandoras box for everything else.