Observations regarding the anti-gun crowd

[The T]

What more is there to SAY?

The ONLY WAY to abridge it is to REPEAL IT by process of CONGRESS...

ALL GUN LAWS are illegal.

Enough said.

True.

So all people that get guns have to now join a militia that will be under the power of Congress to be called forth in times of need to defend the nation.

Kewl.

Wrong as usual. The 2nd Amendment imparts 2 protected rights. One is to the States, granting them the right to create and maintain militias, which most States have quit doing. The second right is to the INDIVIDUAL , a protected right to OWN, maintain and use firearms. Further Congress can not call forth the entirety of a States Militia. Only a portion.

Whoomp...there it is...

 

[The T]

What more is there to SAY?

The ONLY WAY to abridge it is to REPEAL IT by process of CONGRESS...

ALL GUN LAWS are illegal.

Enough said.

True.

So all people that get guns have to now join a militia that will be under the power of Congress to be called forth in times of need to defend the nation.

Kewl.

Wrong as usual. The 2nd Amendment imparts 2 protected rights. One is to the States, granting them the right to create and maintain militias, which most States have quit doing. The second right is to the INDIVIDUAL , a protected right to OWN, maintain and use firearms. Further Congress can not call forth the entirety of a States Militia. Only a portion.

And the Militia belongs the the STATES...

 

[Sallow]

NOPE.

Try again.

You first.

Wrong Answer. Try Again.

But your answer is in error.

 

[Sallow]

True.

So all people that get guns have to now join a militia that will be under the power of Congress to be called forth in times of need to defend the nation.

Kewl.

Wrong as usual. The 2nd Amendment imparts 2 protected rights. One is to the States, granting them the right to create and maintain militias, which most States have quit doing. The second right is to the INDIVIDUAL , a protected right to OWN, maintain and use firearms. Further Congress can not call forth the entirety of a States Militia. Only a portion.

And the Militia belongs the the STATES...

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

 

[The T]

You first.

Wrong Answer. Try Again.

But your answer is in error.

NOPE the error is YOU...Sorry.
Try again.

 

[The T]

Wrong as usual. The 2nd Amendment imparts 2 protected rights. One is to the States, granting them the right to create and maintain militias, which most States have quit doing. The second right is to the INDIVIDUAL , a protected right to OWN, maintain and use firearms. Further Congress can not call forth the entirety of a States Militia. Only a portion.

And the Militia belongs the the STATES...

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

And the States. ONLY a Governor may call out the Guard...or did you miss that class?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Wrong as usual. The 2nd Amendment imparts 2 protected rights. One is to the States, granting them the right to create and maintain militias, which most States have quit doing. The second right is to the INDIVIDUAL , a protected right to OWN, maintain and use firearms. Further Congress can not call forth the entirety of a States Militia. Only a portion.

And the Militia belongs the the STATES...

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

 

[Sallow]

What more is there to SAY?

The ONLY WAY to abridge it is to REPEAL IT by process of CONGRESS...

ALL GUN LAWS are illegal.

Enough said.

True.

So all people that get guns have to now join a militia that will be under the power of Congress to be called forth in times of need to defend the nation.

Kewl.

Wrong as usual. The 2nd Amendment imparts 2 protected rights. One is to the States, granting them the right to create and maintain militias, which most States have quit doing. The second right is to the INDIVIDUAL , a protected right to OWN, maintain and use firearms. Further Congress can not call forth the entirety of a States Militia. Only a portion.

Incorrect. There is no such indivdual right. You can't find it. The right is assigned to the People..not the Person.

Those are for very specific reasons.

First the Constitution designates indivdual rights to "persons"..collective rights to people.

Second at the time of the Constitution, militia and people were frequently used to designate one another. I.e. People=Militia and vice versa.

What we have now is a perversion of original intent.

Our military probably would have resembled the Swiss model.

And the Army was never meant to be permanent. Soldiers were not meant to be professionals. The navy was meant to be permanent.

And the idea of an citizen soldier was another safeguard. It kept the "army" decentralized. Thus assuring that no state or Federal government would have to much power.

 

[Sallow]

And the Militia belongs the the STATES...

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

You're nitpicking.

Ultimately they are under Federal jurisdiction.

 

[The T]

And the Militia belongs the the STATES...

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

However they do not fall under the juristiction of the POTUS.

 

[The T]

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

You're nitpicking.

Ultimately they are under Federal jurisdiction.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]These authorities and responsibilities - these separations of power - are clear and well defined. In such concise wording that even a government-educated lawyer could understand it, the Constitution vests authority in the Congress: [/FONT]​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; (Article I, Section 8; Clause 15) [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, (Clause 16)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
​

...

 

[Sallow]

Which are under the Jurisdiction of the Constitution.

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

However they do not fall under the juristiction of the POTUS.

Yeah..they are..

When they are active.

 

[Sallow]

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

You're nitpicking.

Ultimately they are under Federal jurisdiction.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]These authorities and responsibilities - these separations of power - are clear and well defined. In such concise wording that even a government-educated lawyer could understand it, the Constitution vests authority in the Congress: [/FONT]​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; (Article I, Section 8; Clause 15) [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, (Clause 16)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
​

...

Yes..and?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No Militias are under the power and jurisdiction of each individual State. Congress can, as the need arises, call forth the several States Militia as needed, Which while active requires that the Federal Government is in charge of that portion of a States militia and that they PAY the militia. States do not pay their militia.

However they do not fall under the juristiction of the POTUS.

Yeah..they are..

When they are active.

NO, only if called to Federal Service. A State may activate its militia within the State as needed. Such activated militias are not under the Command of the Army or the President. The Governor commands them through his State military appointments.

As a side note, the National Guard is the permanently called up branch of a States militia. The Federal Government through the Military can call forth the National Guard units as needed. I do not even think it requires action by Congress EXCEPT in regards paying them. Currently the arrangement is that no more than a third of a States national Guard units can be deployed and no more then a third more can be in training for call up.

But back in the early 90's the Guard was made a part of the Standing Army. Of the existing Divisions in the US Army one brigade ( most have 3 Brigades) is a National Guard Brigade. The Army has the power to call them up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You're nitpicking.

Ultimately they are under Federal jurisdiction.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]These authorities and responsibilities - these separations of power - are clear and well defined. In such concise wording that even a government-educated lawyer could understand it, the Constitution vests authority in the Congress: [/FONT]​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; (Article I, Section 8; Clause 15) [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, (Clause 16)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
​

...

Yes..and?

Read clause 15, The Feds only have power over that part called up.

 

[Sallow]

However they do not fall under the juristiction of the POTUS.

Yeah..they are..

When they are active.

NO, only if called to Federal Service. A State may activate its militia within the State as needed. Such activated militias are not under the Command of the Army or the President. The Governor commands them through his State military appointments.

As a side note, the National Guard is the permanently called up branch of a States militia. The Federal Government through the Military can call forth the National Guard units as needed. I do not even think it requires action by Congress EXCEPT in regards paying them. Currently the arrangement is that no more than a third of a States national Guard units can be deployed and no more then a third more can be in training for call up.

But back in the early 90's the Guard was made a part of the Standing Army. Of the existing Divisions in the US Army one brigade ( most have 3 Brigades) is a National Guard Brigade. The Army has the power to call them up.

What part of "When they are active"..didn't you quite understand?

You took like 300 words or so to repeat my four.

Bravo.

 

[Sallow]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]These authorities and responsibilities - these separations of power - are clear and well defined. In such concise wording that even a government-educated lawyer could understand it, the Constitution vests authority in the Congress: [/FONT]​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; (Article I, Section 8; Clause 15) [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, (Clause 16)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
​

...

Yes..and?

Read clause 15, The Feds only have power over that part called up.

And?

Go on?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes..and?

Read clause 15, The Feds only have power over that part called up.

And?

Go on?

It is clearly spelled out that the Fed has NO CONTROL over Militias unless called up BY the Fed. The Governor controls his State militia. He is only limited in the ability to use said Militia within the confines of HIS State Legislature and existing policy and law. The Fed can NOT compel a State to relinquish control of its entire militia.

Remembering of Course that Militia in that term means all able bodied men of a certain set age range. Not just the current accepted doctrine that the National Guard is States militia.

All Officers in all States are selected and appointed BY the State. Every State has a Military section of their State Government, to run the National Guard. The Guard also, all Officers are selected and appointed by the State. The Army trains them but even if they fail army training they can still be appointed Officers of that States militia or National Guard.

North Carolina has a militia. Besides the National Guard. They do not, to my knowledge, actually do anything. But the units exist and have Officers and NCO's assigned.

 

[thanatos144]

Anti-gun is anti-freedom. Period. Only a idiot doesn't see that all their other rights and privileges are protected by the right to be armed.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

I would still like somebody to point out why we shouldn't make it so people who're selling guns would need a license to do so? This way it enforces that background checks being done, and if you're a law-abiding citizen you can still get guns (I'm not for banning any additional guns for the record).

-It doesn't violate the constitution (which states you have the right to own them-not sell them)
-It doesn't violate private-selling laws, because you can't sell any restricted item privately you want to just anybody (see alcohol, cigarettes, prescription medications)
-It helps keep guns away from criminals
-It doesn't violate the rights, or place any additional restrictions on them of any law-abiding citizens

I posed this a little earlier, but I think it got lost in the whole name-calling and such. Just curious what the pro-gun people think of this, and if they can give me their reasoning. (I'm pro-gun btw).