Obama was right about the dreaded Bush tax cuts for the rich!!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by EdwardBaiamonte, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    We must end them to raise money to eliminate the deficit and debt, balance the budget, increase spending on the poor, on infrastructure and the green economy!!

    Except, the Bush supply side tax cuts produced more revenue not less revenue!!

    Stephen Moore: "from 2004 to 2007 federal tax cuts revenue increased by an enormous 785 billion., the largest increase in American History!


    Appendix:







    individual and corporate tax were up 40% capital gains and dividend 71% in capital gains and 41% in dividends

    NYTIMES: "An unexpectedly steep rise in tax revenues from corporations and the wealthy is driving down the deficit this year"

    " the latest IRS data through 2006 show a more than 120 billion increase in tax payments by the wealthy after the 2003 Bush tax cuts through 2006



    Forbes: "The Macroeconomic Effects of Tax Changes: Estimates Based on a New Measure of Fiscal Shocks," co-authored with her husband, fellow University of California, Berkeley, economist David Romer.
    In their article, they find that "tax increases are highly contractionary" and that tax cuts are highly expansionary. Otherwise-careful economists Greg Mankiw of Harvard and Lawrence Lindsey of the American Enterprise Institute have run with this result, as they should,

    NYSUN: It came when Mr. Gibson questioned Senator Obama about the capital gains tax. Mr. Gibson quoted Mr. Obama as talking about raising the tax to 28% from 15%. "But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent," Mr. Gibson said. "And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent. And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down. So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?"

    Why, Robert Bartley couldn't have put it better himself. Mr. Obama was totally flummoxed, betraying a fundamental lack of understanding of the Laffer Curve. The Democrat of Illinois spoke of the need to "finance health care for Americans who currently don't have it," and of the need to "invest in our infrastructure" and in "our schools."

    Mr. Gibson, to his credit, wouldn't let the point go. "But history shows that when you drop the capital gains tax, the revenues go up," he replied to Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama replied by changing the subject, to "a housing crisis that this president has not been attentive to."

    Mr. Gibson tried the same question, more or less, on Senator Clinton. She, at least, disavowed raising the capital gains rate above 20%, ruling out a return to the 28% rate contemplated by Mr. Obama. But when Mr. Gibson pressed her on why she would raise it at all, she went into lunk-headed, static analysis mode, displaying a lack of understanding as severe as that afflicting her rival. "You know, Charlie, I'm going to have to look and see what the revenue situation is," she said.

    Dwyer,Washington Times: By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.

    But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years



    http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~cromer/draft1108.pdf

    Or the National bureau of Economic Research? They non-partisan enough?

    http://www.nber.org/digest/mar08/w13264.html

    Heritage: A general consensus exists that a higher capital gains tax rate would harm the economy, but at what point would the revenues lost due to slower economic growth exceed the revenues gained from the higher tax rate? How many jobs would be lost and how many wage gains would be missed to implement the President’s notion of tax "fairness”? Analysis by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in the President’s budget provides the basis to answer these questions: Only a slight reduction in economic growth will offset the revenue gained from raising the capital gains tax, producing little tax revenue on net. It is more likely to reduce total federal receipts.



    In 1990, when the Congress considered a 30 percent cut in the rate on gains, OTA estimated that such a cut would increase revenues by $12 billion over five years; the JCT projected a loss of $11 billion. If they had not factored in a realizations response, the two agencies would have estimated revenue costs of $80 billion and $100 billion, respectively--effectively illustrating how large a behavioral response is incorporated in capital gains revenue estimates.

    In general, there is significant consensus that broad-based reductions in taxes on capital have the potential to boost economic growth over the long run. Reductions in capital taxation increase the return on investment and therefore the formation of capital. The resulting increase in the capital stock yields greater output and higher incomes throughout much of the economy.
    In particular, treating capital gains favorably can reduce the inefficiency caused by the double taxation (under both the corporate income tax and the individual income tax) of corporate profits. And innovation and entrepreneurship may also respond positively to lower capital gains tax rates.

    Eliminating the lock-in effect on the allocation of capital is often cited as a potential economic benefit from reducing capital gains rates.

    And while reductions in the overall taxation of capital income can measurably increase economic growth,

    DonLuskin: Those are the estimates. Now let’s see how things really turned out. Take a look at Table 4-4 on page 92 of the Budget and Economic Outlook released this week. You’ll see that actual liabilities from capital-gains taxes were $71 billion in 2004, and $80 billion in 2005, for a two-year total of $151 billion. So let’s do the math one more time: Subtract the originally estimated two-year liability of $125 billion from the actual liability of $151 billion, and you get a $26 billion upside surprise for the government. Yes, instead of costing the government $27 billion in revenues, the tax cuts actually earned the government $26 billion extra.

    CBO’s estimate of the “cost” of the tax cut was virtually 180 degrees wrong. The Laffer curve lives!
     
  2. OKTexas
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    OKTexas New Life Member of the NRA 12/15 Supporting Member

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    OMG, not more facts. Only idiots don't understand these concepts, OK, I guess the commiecrats don't understand these concepts, but Maobama does, he just doesn't care. With him it's about ideology, not doing what's best.
     
  3. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    To claim tax cuts increased revenues you have to show cause and effect.
     
  4. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    the more you cut taxes the bigger the private sector and the smaller the government.

    You can obviously collect more taxes from the USA private sector than the French private sector, for example, because our private sector is 4 times the size.
     
  5. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    bamie is punishing success! and he knows it, that's why he won't agree to close the loopholes.. he must punish the rich.
     
  6. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    Who's ever made government smaller by cutting taxes.

    Cutting taxes actually enables bigger government because it creates the illusion that government is free.

    Every time you cut taxes without an accompanying offsetting cutting of spending, you are feeding that illusion.
     
  7. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    If a rich guy pays an extra 100,000 in taxes because he lost a 'loophole', or, if he pays an extra 100,000 in taxes because his rate went up,

    what's the difference, to him?
     
  8. OKTexas
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    There has to be some difference other wise why would Moabama be stuck on the rates?
     
  9. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    the difference is huge!! That means, for example, $100,000 less in his bank that his banker can loan out to a new business. That means the economy continues to drift rather than grow to rescue the 25 million unemployed under Maobama. Welcome to your first lesson in Econ.101!!
     
  10. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    too stupid!! less money means less government. Its like cutting off the blood supply to a cancerous tumor.

    so the Europeans thought and now they are all bankrupt!!

    get it now?????????? THe only folks with an illusion are liberals who have killed all 30 Balanced Budget Amendments since Jefferson's first.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012

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