Obama OWNS Tax Increases

[Saigon]

Why are tax increases always bad?

Maybe Americans need to be smart enough to figure out that taxes can not always go down and down and down, and sometimes you are actually better off when they go up.

Your taxes on money earned from shares are far too low, and the US would be in much better financial shape overall if they were at 35%, not 15%.

Your joking right... I mean it isn't exactly the best of economic times in case you have not been paying attention. Unreal.

Exactly, genius.

And in poor economic times the government earns less from sales taxes, less from Capital Gains Taxes and less for corporate and personal taxes than they do in good economic times.

Hence, cutting taxes does more to render government servies uneconomic than it does to stimulate growth and spending. Taxation needs to be a balance between providing services efficiently, and encouraging economic activity - too often Americans seem to focus on the latter whilst ignoring the former - and then complaining that your schools are poor and infrastructure outdated.

 

[oldernwiser]

Why are tax increases always bad?

Maybe Americans need to be smart enough to figure out that taxes can not always go down and down and down, and sometimes you are actually better off when they go up.

Your taxes on money earned from shares are far too low, and the US would be in much better financial shape overall if they were at 35%, not 15%.

----------Raising ANY taxes during a recession is not just stupid it is ludicrus, even Obama said so when he agreed to exrending the Bush tax cuts. To raise taxes sky high in the largest tax hike in history in the same year that Bush tax cuts are due to expire again is beyond idiotic, beyond absurd, unless you WANT the economy to fall into another deep recession if not depression.

Right now the corporate tax rate is at 38%, highest in the world, while the tax on Capital Gains is 15%, this is the rate used in order to incurage investment. So if you what to make sure we punish any investment and guarantee there are no new jobs created and destroy whatever tiny recovery is going on then you have the right idea. In fact you'll probably force whatever companys that have been hanging on by their fingernails over the edge into bankrupcy and start an entire new round of layoffs and downsizing. BRILLIANT!

Hmmm... so how's it been working out for us over, say, the last 12 years?

 

[tjvh]

Why are tax increases always bad?

Maybe Americans need to be smart enough to figure out that taxes can not always go down and down and down, and sometimes you are actually better off when they go up.

Your taxes on money earned from shares are far too low, and the US would be in much better financial shape overall if they were at 35%, not 15%.

Your joking right... I mean it isn't exactly the best of economic times in case you have not been paying attention. Unreal.

Exactly, genius.

And in poor economic times the government earns less from sales taxes, less from Capital Gains Taxes and less for corporate and personal taxes than they do in good economic times.

Hence, cutting taxes does more to render government servies uneconomic than it does to stimulate growth and spending.

The hell it does, the Tax rates (percentages) don't change. When gas prices soar, so does the Tax windfall... And it is the same of most all other goods. It's really simple economics. The States, and the Fed are raking in HUGE Tax windfalls when prices are inflated.

 

[oldernwiser]

What "tax increases"?

My taxes won't go up. How will yours?

My taxes won't go up either since I will continue to buy health insurance. I guess all these free loaders who choose to let people like you and I subsidize their healthcare costs are just in a tizzy because they are finally being called out on their mooching ways. Now they will have to pay to mooch.

There may well be freeloaders, but they are likely on Medicaid. There are many that cannot afford healthcare, even when offered by employer. The monthly cost would not allow them to pay rent, utilities, transportation costs, insurance, and food. So they without. Guess what? They won't be able to pay the tax either, so when IRS begins to garnish, they will quit working.

The thing is, there are none of the normal IRS strong-arm tactics allowed in the collection process. My guess is that if you can't afford the penalty, you aren't making enough money in the first place. If you're making tons of cash, and still want to opt out of any healthcare plans, paying the penalty may actually be a cheaper route, and they'll make that deduction for you when you file for a return.

 

[oldernwiser]

Your joking right... I mean it isn't exactly the best of economic times in case you have not been paying attention. Unreal.

Exactly, genius.

And in poor economic times the government earns less from sales taxes, less from Capital Gains Taxes and less for corporate and personal taxes than they do in good economic times.

Hence, cutting taxes does more to render government servies uneconomic than it does to stimulate growth and spending.

The hell it does, the Tax rates (percentages) don't change. When gas prices soar, so does the Tax windfall... And it is the same of most all other goods. It's really simple economics. The States, and the Fed are raking in HUGE Tax windfalls when prices are inflated.

So you're saying that when there is less money to spend on goods, and normal people have to buy groceries instead of investing in Facebook, and there are less workers due to layoffs and plant closings, that the government is raking in the Franklins because of a "windfall"?

Man, I must have been sleeping in Econ class the day that got taught.

 

[Annie]

It's interesting that both sides ignore a problem with this discussion. Not all not enrolled in insurance are kids or deadbeats. Some of us are working all hours available.Some have multiple degrees, including advanced. But we may be older, have some handicaps or a combination. So far, no one is offering a solution.

I do know that if any of my $18k piecemeal salaries are garnished, I will give up trying to survive/working.

If I could have afforded the insurance, I'd have taken it. I can't.

 

[Annie]

My taxes won't go up either since I will continue to buy health insurance. I guess all these free loaders who choose to let people like you and I subsidize their healthcare costs are just in a tizzy because they are finally being called out on their mooching ways. Now they will have to pay to mooch.

There may well be freeloaders, but they are likely on Medicaid. There are many that cannot afford healthcare, even when offered by employer. The monthly cost would not allow them to pay rent, utilities, transportation costs, insurance, and food. So they without. Guess what? They won't be able to pay the tax either, so when IRS begins to garnish, they will quit working.

The thing is, there are none of the normal IRS strong-arm tactics allowed in the collection process. My guess is that if you can't afford the penalty, you aren't making enough money in the first place. If you're making tons of cash, and still want to opt out of any healthcare plans, paying the penalty may actually be a cheaper route, and they'll make that deduction for you when you file for a return.

Bullshit. Today it was defined as a tax.

 

[Saigon]

The hell it does, the Tax rates (percentages) don't change. When gas prices soar, so does the Tax windfall... And it is the same of most all other goods. It's really simple economics. The States, and the Fed are raking in HUGE Tax windfalls when prices are inflated.

Oh dear....where do I start?

The rate of sales tax does not change, but if the amount of goods sold in one year drops from, say, $1 trillion to $0.8 trillion, then the amount of tax the government receives also drops 20%.

This really is fairly simple stuff, dude.

 

[Stukaman]

----------Raising ANY taxes during a recession is not just stupid it is ludicrus,

No, that simply is ot true at all.

A great many countries - including Finland and our conservative government - have raised taxes during the recession, because the government needs more money.

-----------I hate to break this to you Sunshine, but this is not Finland. the GDP of Finland is $238.04 Billion, while the GDP of the US is
$14.59 Trillion US dollars.

Finland GDP Data & Country Report | Global Finance

http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=1ajimgltodkof

to say we can just raise the tax rates by.... oh, over 100% is typical of someone who knows nothing about economic matters. You pprobably think that only the rich would have to pay for your ludicrus tax increase, wrong again genius.

 

[Saigon]

Stukaman -

I hate to break this to you Sunshine, but this is not Finland. the GDP of Finland is $238.04 Billion, while the GDP of the US is
$14.59 Trillion US dollars.

So what?

I can think of a fair few conservtive governments who have raised taxes during the past recession years....are they all wrong, or just stupid?

 

[Stukaman]

Why are tax increases always bad?

Maybe Americans need to be smart enough to figure out that taxes can not always go down and down and down, and sometimes you are actually better off when they go up.

Your taxes on money earned from shares are far too low, and the US would be in much better financial shape overall if they were at 35%, not 15%.

----------Raising ANY taxes during a recession is not just stupid it is ludicrus, even Obama said so when he agreed to exrending the Bush tax cuts. To raise taxes sky high in the largest tax hike in history in the same year that Bush tax cuts are due to expire again is beyond idiotic, beyond absurd, unless you WANT the economy to fall into another deep recession if not depression.

Right now the corporate tax rate is at 38%, highest in the world, while the tax on Capital Gains is 15%, this is the rate used in order to incurage investment. So if you what to make sure we punish any investment and guarantee there are no new jobs created and destroy whatever tiny recovery is going on then you have the right idea. In fact you'll probably force whatever companys that have been hanging on by their fingernails over the edge into bankrupcy and start an entire new round of layoffs and downsizing. BRILLIANT!

Hmmm... so how's it been working out for us over, say, the last 12 years?

-------------Pretty good when you consider the average unemployment rate during Bush's administration was about 5%
Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

 

[Saigon]

to say we can just raise the tax rates by.... oh, over 100% is typical of someone who knows nothing about economic matters.

Who said that?

Can you provide the name of the poster, and the post number or link?

 

[Stukaman]

Stukaman -

I hate to break this to you Sunshine, but this is not Finland. the GDP of Finland is $238.04 Billion, while the GDP of the US is
$14.59 Trillion US dollars.

So what?

I can think of a fair few conservtive governments who have raised taxes during the past recession years....are they all wrong, or just stupid?

-----------So What?! how can you even think about comparing the economy of a place that has the same size GDP as ...OH, California, with the entire US GDP?!


It depends, how can you say the answers for a giant economy here would be the same for a much smaller economy in Scandinavia. Of course they probably are all wrong, look what happened to Saab. We've tried tax cuts which have only worked every single time they're tried, by Kennedy, Reagan and Bush, or we can increase taxes, which will ruin this economy, especially in a recession.

 

[tjvh]

Exactly, genius.

And in poor economic times the government earns less from sales taxes, less from Capital Gains Taxes and less for corporate and personal taxes than they do in good economic times.

Hence, cutting taxes does more to render government servies uneconomic than it does to stimulate growth and spending.

The hell it does, the Tax rates (percentages) don't change. When gas prices soar, so does the Tax windfall... And it is the same of most all other goods. It's really simple economics. The States, and the Fed are raking in HUGE Tax windfalls when prices are inflated.

So you're saying that when there is less money to spend on goods, and normal people have to buy groceries instead of investing in Facebook, and there are less workers due to layoffs and plant closings, that the government is raking in the Franklins because of a "windfall"?

Man, I must have been sleeping in Econ class the day that got taught.

I'm saying when prices soar, so do the Taxes that the government receives. Give me a break, people are still putting gasoline in their cars aren't they? There are some who are still doing pretty well in this economy. Nobody is starving.

 

[oldernwiser]

There may well be freeloaders, but they are likely on Medicaid. There are many that cannot afford healthcare, even when offered by employer. The monthly cost would not allow them to pay rent, utilities, transportation costs, insurance, and food. So they without. Guess what? They won't be able to pay the tax either, so when IRS begins to garnish, they will quit working.

The thing is, there are none of the normal IRS strong-arm tactics allowed in the collection process. My guess is that if you can't afford the penalty, you aren't making enough money in the first place. If you're making tons of cash, and still want to opt out of any healthcare plans, paying the penalty may actually be a cheaper route, and they'll make that deduction for you when you file for a return.

Bullshit. Today it was defined as a tax.

Yup - that's how it passed.

Roberts said:

...taxes that seek to influence conduct are nothing new. Some of our earliest federal taxes sought to deter the purchase of imported manufactured goods in order to foster the growth of domestic industry. Today, federal and state taxes can compose more than half the retail price of cigarettes, not just to raise more money, but to encourage people to quit smoking.

So, essentially if you have a decent job, it's very likely that your employer has you covered and you pay no tax. Very soon, all employers will have to provide coverage or face a penalty of their own (yo can call that another tax if you like). If you can't afford insurance, no tax. If you CAN afford insurance and choose not to, you help your fellow citizens out by paying the tax.

Roberts writes later:

While the individual mandate clearly aims to induce the purchase of health insurance, it need not be read to declare that failing to do so is unlawful. Neither the Act nor any other law attaches negative legal consequences to not buying health insurance, beyond requiring a payment to the IRS. The Government agrees with that reading, confirming that if someone chooses to pay rather than obtain health insurance, they have fully complied with the law.

Indeed, it is estimated that four million people each year will choose to pay the IRS rather than buy insurance.

How many other taxes do you get to opt out of?

 

[Stukaman]

to say we can just raise the tax rates by.... oh, over 100% is typical of someone who knows nothing about economic matters.

Who said that?

Can you provide the name of the poster, and the post number or link?

-----------No problem, post #10 from .....oh....YOU!

Why are tax increases always bad?

Maybe Americans need to be smart enough to figure out that taxes can not always go down and down and down, and sometimes you are actually better off when they go up.

Your taxes on money earned from shares are far too low, and the US would be in much better financial shape overall if they were at 35%, not 15%.

 

[Saigon]

-----------So What?! how can you even think about comparing the economy of a place that has the same size GDP as ...OH, California, with the entire US GDP?!


It depends, how can you say the answers for a giant economy here would be the same for a much smaller economy in Scandinavia. Of course they probably are all wrong, look what happened to Saab. We've tried tax cuts which have only worked every single time they're tried, by Kennedy, Reagan and Bush, or we can increase taxes, which will ruin this economy, especially in a recession.

Of course the economies are of vastly different size, but there have also been taxes increases in the UK, which is a very significant economy.

If I remember rightly, there have also been some tax increases in Germany and France, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[Saigon]

Your taxes on money earned from shares are far too low, and the US would be in much better financial shape overall if they were at 35%, not 15%.

This isn't a tax increase as such - it's an end to the tax decreases put in place by Bush.

 

[tjvh]

The hell it does, the Tax rates (percentages) don't change. When gas prices soar, so does the Tax windfall... And it is the same of most all other goods. It's really simple economics. The States, and the Fed are raking in HUGE Tax windfalls when prices are inflated.

Oh dear....where do I start?

The rate of sales tax does not change, but if the amount of goods sold in one year drops from, say, $1 trillion to $0.8 trillion, then the amount of tax the government receives also drops 20%.

This really is fairly simple stuff, dude.

Are you drinking? If the price of goods rise (which they have), and the Tax of those goods stays the same (which I said before) the amount of Taxes taken in ALSO rise. Not everybody is sitting around doing nothing, some people are still working, and putting gas in their cars, and buying goods and services. Just because the economy sucks, doesn't mean money isn't moving, and Taxes are not being paid.

 

[oldernwiser]

The hell it does, the Tax rates (percentages) don't change. When gas prices soar, so does the Tax windfall... And it is the same of most all other goods. It's really simple economics. The States, and the Fed are raking in HUGE Tax windfalls when prices are inflated.

Oh dear....where do I start?

The rate of sales tax does not change, but if the amount of goods sold in one year drops from, say, $1 trillion to $0.8 trillion, then the amount of tax the government receives also drops 20%.

This really is fairly simple stuff, dude.

Are you drinking? If the price of goods rise (which they have), and the Tax of those goods stays the same (which I said before) the amount of Taxes taken in ALSO rise. Not everybody is sitting around doing nothing, some people are still working, and putting gas in their cars, and buying goods and services. Just because the economy sucks, doesn't mean money isn't moving, and Taxes are not being paid.

ummm.... but if the economy sucks, aren't there less dollars available to buy those goods? Yeah - you still have to drive to work, but you DON'T have to drive to the beach, right? Just saying that it all tends to even out.