Obama on Gaza Attacks

[SwingVoter]

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," ... "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing"

clear and well-said, something we haven't seen in a pres. for 8 years

 

[dilloduck]

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," ... "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing"

clear and well-said, something we haven't seen in a pres. for 8 years

Very statesman -ike--so what is he actually going to do ? Same as all the rest I imagine.

 

[Steerpike]

Isn't that a comment from last summer, though? And not with respect to the current situation? Not that it matters a great deal, but I don't think he's said anything about the specific events going on now.

 

[DiveCon]

Isn't that a comment from last summer, though? And not with respect to the current situation? Not that it matters a great deal, but I don't think he's said anything about the specific events going on now.

well, he didnt include a source
so it could be the same quote you speak of

 

[Modbert]

Obama monitors Israeli attacks on Gaza - International Herald Tribune

"President Bush speaks for the United States until Jan. 20 and we're going to honor that," Axelrod said Sunday.

 

[jillian]

Isn't that a comment from last summer, though? And not with respect to the current situation? Not that it matters a great deal, but I don't think he's said anything about the specific events going on now.

It's what he said in July when he went to Israel.

I don't think he's said anything about Gaza yet, either. But he got the issue dead on.


And Swingvoter... link your quote.

Thanks.

 

[Annie]

It's what he said in July when he went to Israel.

I don't think he's said anything about Gaza yet, either. But he got the issue dead on.


And Swingvoter... link your quote.

Thanks.

Well look who's quoting him, past and present:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/washington/29diplo.html?_r=1&em

December 29, 2008
Obama Defers to Bush, for Now, on Gaza Crisis

By STEVEN LEE MYERS and HELENE COOPER
WASHINGTON — When President-elect Barack Obama went to Israel in July — to the very town, in fact, whose repeated shelling culminated in this weekend’s new fighting in Gaza — he all but endorsed the punishing Israeli attacks now unfolding.

“If somebody was sending rockets into my house, where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that,” he told reporters in Sderot, a small city on the edge of Gaza that has been hit repeatedly by rocket fire. “And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.”

Now, Mr. Obama’s presidency will begin facing the consequences of just such a counterattack, one of Israel’s deadliest against Palestinians in decades, presenting him with yet another foreign crisis to deal with the moment he steps into the White House on Jan. 20, even as he and his advisers have struggled mightily to focus on the country’s economic problems.

Since his election, Mr. Obama has said little specific about his foreign policy — in contrast to more expansive remarks about the economy. He and his advisers have deferred questions — critics could say, ducked them — by saying that until Jan. 20, only President Bush would speak for the nation as president and commander in chief. “The fact is that there is only one president at a time,” David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, told CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday, reiterating a phrase that has become a mantra of the transition. “And that president now is George Bush.”

Mr. Obama, vacationing in Hawaii, talked to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Saturday. “But the Bush administration has to speak for America now,” Mr. Axelrod said. “And it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to opine on these matters.” As the fighting in Gaza shows, however, events in the world do not necessarily wait for Inauguration Day in the United States....

Regarding the above, I agree with him. He needs to be 'quiet' on this type of foreign matter.

 

[AmericaFirst]

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," ... "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing"

clear and well-said, something we haven't seen in a pres. for 8 years

I wonder what he'd do to the terrorists that cut off the electricity, food, medical supply, fuel and water to his little girls for MONTHS? Maybe he should have a wall built around him, maybe his home should be bulldozed to make room for the 'democracy'

 

[DiveCon]

I wonder what he'd do to the terrorists that cut off the electricity, food, medical supply, fuel and water to his little girls for MONTHS? Maybe he should have a wall built around him, maybe his home should be bulldozed to make room for the 'democracy'

please show proof of the "wall" around Gaza

 

[xsited1]

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," ... "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing"

clear and well-said, something we haven't seen in a pres. for 8 years

I wonder who told him to say that? Perhaps Rahm Israel Emanuel wrote that and Obama just read it off his teleprompter.

I am glad the Republicans lost. Hehe!

 

[Annie]

I wonder who told him to say that? Perhaps Rahm Israel Emanuel wrote that and Obama just read it off his teleprompter.

I am glad the Republicans lost. Hehe!

I don't care the prompting, the message is right.

 

[xsited1]

I don't care the prompting, the message is right.

No doubt. As long as he has the right people telling him what to do, I don't really care. I'm just worried about the wackos in Congress. Hopefully they'll be gone in 2010.

 

[AmericaFirst]

please show proof of the "wall" around Gaza

This forum will not allow me to link to URLs yet. There are many sources of the "wall" that exists and is being built around the Palestinian people in both the West Bank and Gaza.

I have used the term "wall" as I consider it to be the most accurate description of the structure currently built as ell as being built. Although not complete at present, there are clear indications of what the final form of the structure will be. It is likely to be a concrete structure with a maximum height of 8 metres. There will also be electrified fencing, trenches up to four metres deep, a trace path, a two lane road for patrol vehicles, electronic sensors, thermal imaging and video cameras, fortified guard towers and razor wire. There are likely to be "no-go" areas of various widths either side of the structure, possibly of up to several hundred metres. This does not reflect the normal use of the word "fence" and as I shall explain in this article, the effect of the wall will not be to "separate" Israelis and Palestinians.

By way of comparison, the average height of the Berlin Wall was 3.6 metres and 155 kilometres long.

Legality under International Law

It has been contended that the building of the wall in this way is contrary to International Law. Both the recent UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/58/3 on the wall and the UN Security Council draft resolution S/2003/980 that was vetoed by the USA state that the wall is "contrary to relevant provisions of international law," though they do not state which ones.

The Israeli government argues that the requisition of property in the Occupied Territories is legal according to Article 23(g) of the 1907 Hague Regulations which states:

"Art. 23. In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden
...
(g) To destroy or seize the enemy's property, unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war;
..."

However, Article 46 of the same Hague Regulations states that private property must be respected and cannot be confiscated and Article 55 states that an occupier is regarded only as an administrator and user of real property and agricultural land in the occupied territory and therefore must safeguard such properties.

Most relevant is the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which governs the treatment of civilians. The Israeli Government is signatory to the Convention, but denies that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Against this, the Committee of Contracting States of the Fourth Geneva Convention disagrees and states that Israel remains the occupying power and therefore must comply with the Convention and other rules relating to occupation2.

Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention relates to property appropriation and reads:

"Article 53
Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or co-operative organisations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

The Fourth Geneva Convention also provides that appropriation of property can amount to a "grave breach" and therefore a war crime:

"Article 147
Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the present Convention:
...
extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

Under the preceding article of the Geneva Convention, Article 146, the parties signatory to the Convention agree to enact penal sanctions and to search and bring to trial before their own courts persons alleged to have committed grave breaches of the Convention, regardless of their nationality. In this country, the obligation is enshrined in the Geneva Conventions Act of 1957.

Other commentators have pointed out various other breaches of international instruments that Israel is breaching because of the wall. BTselem, the Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories has submitted that the wall is an infringement of the right to freedom of movement, the right to work and to an adequate standard of living and the right to property3. Additionally, the Oslo Peace Accords signed in 1995 forbid a party from changing the status of the West Bank under the agreement4.

Is "Separation" Possible?

Looking at a map, people could be forgiven for thinking that separating Jews and Palestinians would be easy. The West Bank lies to the East of Israel. The River Jordan and the Dead Sea form the Eastern border of the West Bank with Jordan. The border of the West Bank with Israel runs for about 350 kilometres in a rough curve that runs near Haifa in the North, Tel Aviv to the West and the Negev desert to the South.

For a variety of reasons, attempting to build a dividing wall would not be easy. The wall in Robert Frost's poem divides an apple orchard from pine trees. The populations of the West Bank and Israel are not so neatly divided.

The first obstacle is the Israeli settlements. Travelling through the West Bank, seeing settlements is as common as seeing Palestinian towns. In contrast to Palestinian towns that have grown randomly and untidily in the valleys, settlements are normally located on the tops of hills, regular white boxes of houses with red tiled roofs arranged in rows and surrounded by massive security. Though population transfer into occupied land is illegal, contrary to Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention5, the Israeli Government has planned, supported and funded this settlement of Israelis in the West Bank. There are now 400,000 Israelis living among the Palestinian population. Settlements are often deliberately placed in immediate proximity to Palestinian Towns and villages and in the case of Hebron, a Palestinian Town, a settlement is located in the very heart of the city. It is therefore impossible to divide Palestinians from Israelis unless the settlements are dismantled, a step to which the current Israeli Government is vehemently opposed. Nor should it be forgotten that the Israeli has a significant percentage of Palestinian citizens. Palestinians who remained in Israel when the state was created currently amount to around 20% of the population and the proportion is steadily increasing.

The current government's refusal to consider dismantling the settlements creates further difficulties in any attempt to "separate" the two peoples. Settlers are citizens of Israel and are entitled to unrestricted access to and from the West Bank. In addition, citizens of Israel, including both Jewish and Palestinian citizens, together with visitors to Israel holding a visa are also entitled to unrestricted access to the West Bank, though Israeli citizens are forbidden to enter Area "A," which is nominally under Palestinian control. This necessitates a porous border with numerous security checkpoints to check identity cards and search people and vehicles.

 

[DiveCon]

This forum will not allow me to link to URLs yet. There are many sources of the "wall" that exists and is being built around the Palestinian people in both the West Bank and Gaza.

I have used the term "wall" as I consider it to be the most accurate description of the structure currently built as ell as being built. Although not complete at present, there are clear indications of what the final form of the structure will be. It is likely to be a concrete structure with a maximum height of 8 metres. There will also be electrified fencing, trenches up to four metres deep, a trace path, a two lane road for patrol vehicles, electronic sensors, thermal imaging and video cameras, fortified guard towers and razor wire. There are likely to be "no-go" areas of various widths either side of the structure, possibly of up to several hundred metres. This does not reflect the normal use of the word "fence" and as I shall explain in this article, the effect of the wall will not be to "separate" Israelis and Palestinians.

By way of comparison, the average height of the Berlin Wall was 3.6 metres and 155 kilometres long.

Legality under International Law

It has been contended that the building of the wall in this way is contrary to International Law. Both the recent UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/58/3 on the wall and the UN Security Council draft resolution S/2003/980 that was vetoed by the USA state that the wall is "contrary to relevant provisions of international law," though they do not state which ones.

The Israeli government argues that the requisition of property in the Occupied Territories is legal according to Article 23(g) of the 1907 Hague Regulations which states:

"Art. 23. In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden
...
(g) To destroy or seize the enemy's property, unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war;
..."

However, Article 46 of the same Hague Regulations states that private property must be respected and cannot be confiscated and Article 55 states that an occupier is regarded only as an administrator and user of real property and agricultural land in the occupied territory and therefore must safeguard such properties.

Most relevant is the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which governs the treatment of civilians. The Israeli Government is signatory to the Convention, but denies that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Against this, the Committee of Contracting States of the Fourth Geneva Convention disagrees and states that Israel remains the occupying power and therefore must comply with the Convention and other rules relating to occupation2.

Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention relates to property appropriation and reads:

"Article 53
Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or co-operative organisations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

The Fourth Geneva Convention also provides that appropriation of property can amount to a "grave breach" and therefore a war crime:

"Article 147
Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the present Convention:
...
extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

Under the preceding article of the Geneva Convention, Article 146, the parties signatory to the Convention agree to enact penal sanctions and to search and bring to trial before their own courts persons alleged to have committed grave breaches of the Convention, regardless of their nationality. In this country, the obligation is enshrined in the Geneva Conventions Act of 1957.

Other commentators have pointed out various other breaches of international instruments that Israel is breaching because of the wall. BTselem, the Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories has submitted that the wall is an infringement of the right to freedom of movement, the right to work and to an adequate standard of living and the right to property3. Additionally, the Oslo Peace Accords signed in 1995 forbid a party from changing the status of the West Bank under the agreement4.

Is "Separation" Possible?

Looking at a map, people could be forgiven for thinking that separating Jews and Palestinians would be easy. The West Bank lies to the East of Israel. The River Jordan and the Dead Sea form the Eastern border of the West Bank with Jordan. The border of the West Bank with Israel runs for about 350 kilometres in a rough curve that runs near Haifa in the North, Tel Aviv to the West and the Negev desert to the South.

For a variety of reasons, attempting to build a dividing wall would not be easy. The wall in Robert Frost's poem divides an apple orchard from pine trees. The populations of the West Bank and Israel are not so neatly divided.

The first obstacle is the Israeli settlements. Travelling through the West Bank, seeing settlements is as common as seeing Palestinian towns. In contrast to Palestinian towns that have grown randomly and untidily in the valleys, settlements are normally located on the tops of hills, regular white boxes of houses with red tiled roofs arranged in rows and surrounded by massive security. Though population transfer into occupied land is illegal, contrary to Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention5, the Israeli Government has planned, supported and funded this settlement of Israelis in the West Bank. There are now 400,000 Israelis living among the Palestinian population. Settlements are often deliberately placed in immediate proximity to Palestinian Towns and villages and in the case of Hebron, a Palestinian Town, a settlement is located in the very heart of the city. It is therefore impossible to divide Palestinians from Israelis unless the settlements are dismantled, a step to which the current Israeli Government is vehemently opposed. Nor should it be forgotten that the Israeli has a significant percentage of Palestinian citizens. Palestinians who remained in Israel when the state was created currently amount to around 20% of the population and the proportion is steadily increasing.

The current government's refusal to consider dismantling the settlements creates further difficulties in any attempt to "separate" the two peoples. Settlers are citizens of Israel and are entitled to unrestricted access to and from the West Bank. In addition, citizens of Israel, including both Jewish and Palestinian citizens, together with visitors to Israel holding a visa are also entitled to unrestricted access to the West Bank, though Israeli citizens are forbidden to enter Area "A," which is nominally under Palestinian control. This necessitates a porous border with numerous security checkpoints to check identity cards and search people and vehicles.

gaza wall - Google Search=

looks like the only place there was a wall, was between gaza and egypt

 

[DavidS]

I wonder what he'd do to the terrorists that cut off the electricity, food, medical supply, fuel and water to his little girls for MONTHS? Maybe he should have a wall built around him, maybe his home should be bulldozed to make room for the 'democracy'

Or maybe Gaza could get fuel, medical supply, electricity and water from EGYPT and NOT Israel, especially when the very people who are giving Gaza those supplies are being targetted by rockets you fucking idiot!

If I were to say to anyone on here: You must share your food, gas, and supplies with the very people who are trying to kill your family, no one on here would think twice about what kind of assinine statement that is. But since Israel stopped doing exactly that, well Israel is a terrorist country!

Fucking idiots.

 

[AmericaFirst]

Or maybe Gaza could get fuel, medical supply, electricity and water from EGYPT and NOT Israel, especially when the very people who are giving Gaza those supplies are being targetted by rockets you fucking idiot!

If I were to say to anyone on here: You must share your food, gas, and supplies with the very people who are trying to kill your family, no one on here would think twice about what kind of assinine statement that is. But since Israel stopped doing exactly that, well Israel is a terrorist country!

Fucking idiots.

LOL - the blockade stops the import of the goods. The blockade is imposed by both Israeli's and the Zionist Egyptians. The filthy Egyptions are shooting and killing the Gaza people trying to get through the blockades. The Israelis are bombing the tunnels where the Gaza people are being FORCED to smuggle supplies. The reason the gaza people strike back is for nothing but survival. They are in the worlds largest open air prison.

You are an idiot.

 

[Annie]

LOL - the blockade stops the import of the goods. The blockade is imposed by both Israeli's and the Zionist Egyptians. The filthy Egyptions are shooting and killing the Gaza people trying to get through the blockades. The Israelis are bombing the tunnels where the Gaza people are being FORCED to smuggle supplies. The reason the gaza people strike back is for nothing but survival. They are in the worlds largest open air prison.

You are an idiot.

Is it possible to be more of a propagandist than you purport?

 

[AmericaFirst]

Is it possible to be more of a propagandist than you purport?

I'd like you to present something more of substance then name calling if you want to argue with me!

Shoot away!

 

[DiveCon]

LOL - the blockade stops the import of the goods. The blockade is imposed by both Israeli's and the Zionist Egyptians. The filthy Egyptions are shooting and killing the Gaza people trying to get through the blockades. The Israelis are bombing the tunnels where the Gaza people are being FORCED to smuggle supplies. The reason the gaza people strike back is for nothing but survival. They are in the worlds largest open air prison.

You are an idiot.

ok, if both Israel and Egypt had them blockaded, they still have the Mediteranean where they could get supplies if they would use the aid they get for actual construction instead of trying to kill Israelis

also, they could feed themselves if they hadnt destroyed that greenhouse that the Israelis REBUILT and refurbished for them before they pulled out, but NO, they had to totally destroy that because a Jew touched it


you are a fucking moron

 

[no1tovote4]

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," ... "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing"

clear and well-said, something we haven't seen in a pres. for 8 years

You do realize he said that in July, right? With Obama that is an Eon ago, we have no idea what he thinks of it currently.