Obama intel agency secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

[flacaltenn]

Not completely. There is no US law against it. But the countries in which we operate may have laws against it, such as in Russia it's probably illegal for America to intercept Russian phone calls.

But we do it anyway. It's only against the law if you get caught.

There are two different things here. If I call someone in Russia or someone calls me, I never have had a fourth amend right to keep the gummit from listening ON MY PHONE. Whether the NSA taps Merkels phone in Bonn is not a constitutional issue. And it's not a dem/gop issue. Easy would blow Trump for doing what he'd impeach a dem for doing.

You DO have a right of anonymity in Foreign conversations. OTHERWISE if you run a multinational business, some GS18 security analyst could bankrupt your companies' stock price or get rich based on info. US citizens are NOT revealed in FOREIGN intercepts unless there is a SPECIFIC warrant from the FISA court (FISC) to surveil that person or organization or a special request from a group that used to be 20 or 30 people (Obama made that 100s) to UNmask that person.

The issue is -- The Patriotic Act DOMESTIC spy operation operates on BULK WARRANTS. Meaning that since they collect and store EVERY e-comm in the US domestically -- they don't NEED special warrants to retain ID information in the database. So it's ripe for abuse, probably HAS been abused by the Dem Admin. And the FISA court just issued this memo OUTLINING their abuses and lack of NSA compliance. It HAPPENED..

Well, the intelligence agency that intercepts a US citizen's call from the US to an overseas entity knows who the American is, and any information that can lead to a warrant is fair game. And that apparently is what caught up Team Trump. THAT was the OP subject: illegal OVERSEA spying. I don't think either W or Obama was accused of that ... unless it's in some asshat wacko fringe site like in the OP. Generally, the public at large and even officials outside the in4elligence agency are not give the US citizen's name ... unless there is a reason collecting intelligence or understanding some issue needs the unmasking. But again, that has nothing to do with the thread. But if you want to assert some Trump guys were wrongfully unmasked... go for it.

As to your second paragraph, why do you assert only the dems abused bulk data?

No.. Foreign intel ops are NOT interested in garden variety American criminal justice. No NEED to reveal identities of citizens and Organizations because they are not law enforcement. They are only interested in foreign affairs and any imminents threats to domestic security.

Yes --- to date --- the Blue Team has a large track record not only turning the Domestic "terrorist surveillance systems" into a political weapon, but also weaponizing the power of agencies like the IRS against groups like the Tea Party. The LATTER --- probably done with the CO-OPERATION of GOP leadership...

I'd have an easier time taking you seriously if you acknowledged that W's administration was actually doing the warrantless domestic spying.

Already covered that. Took 10 years to develop the Big Brother collection and storage system. Didn't open the Grand Palace of Domestic Spying in Utah until 2011 or 2012. So all of that early "bulk collection" was used to TRAIN and DEVELOP the algorithms that are in place now. And the legal challenges against that system were based on the CONCEPT -- not on the MISUSE of such an Awesome capability...

 

[bendog]

There are two different things here. If I call someone in Russia or someone calls me, I never have had a fourth amend right to keep the gummit from listening ON MY PHONE. Whether the NSA taps Merkels phone in Bonn is not a constitutional issue. And it's not a dem/gop issue. Easy would blow Trump for doing what he'd impeach a dem for doing.

You DO have a right of anonymity in Foreign conversations. OTHERWISE if you run a multinational business, some GS18 security analyst could bankrupt your companies' stock price or get rich based on info. US citizens are NOT revealed in FOREIGN intercepts unless there is a SPECIFIC warrant from the FISA court (FISC) to surveil that person or organization or a special request from a group that used to be 20 or 30 people (Obama made that 100s) to UNmask that person.

The issue is -- The Patriotic Act DOMESTIC spy operation operates on BULK WARRANTS. Meaning that since they collect and store EVERY e-comm in the US domestically -- they don't NEED special warrants to retain ID information in the database. So it's ripe for abuse, probably HAS been abused by the Dem Admin. And the FISA court just issued this memo OUTLINING their abuses and lack of NSA compliance. It HAPPENED..

Well, the intelligence agency that intercepts a US citizen's call from the US to an overseas entity knows who the American is, and any information that can lead to a warrant is fair game. And that apparently is what caught up Team Trump. THAT was the OP subject: illegal OVERSEA spying. I don't think either W or Obama was accused of that ... unless it's in some asshat wacko fringe site like in the OP. Generally, the public at large and even officials outside the in4elligence agency are not give the US citizen's name ... unless there is a reason collecting intelligence or understanding some issue needs the unmasking. But again, that has nothing to do with the thread. But if you want to assert some Trump guys were wrongfully unmasked... go for it.

As to your second paragraph, why do you assert only the dems abused bulk data?

No.. Foreign intel ops are NOT interested in garden variety American criminal justice. No NEED to reveal identities of citizens and Organizations because they are not law enforcement. They are only interested in foreign affairs and any imminents threats to domestic security.

Yes --- to date --- the Blue Team has a large track record not only turning the Domestic "terrorist surveillance systems" into a political weapon, but also weaponizing the power of agencies like the IRS against groups like the Tea Party. The LATTER --- probably done with the CO-OPERATION of GOP leadership...

I'd have an easier time taking you seriously if you acknowledged that W's administration was actually doing the warrantless domestic spying.

Already covered that. Took 10 years to develop the Big Brother collection and storage system. Didn't open the Grand Palace of Domestic Spying in Utah until 2011 or 2012. So all of that early "bulk collection" was used to TRAIN and DEVELOP the algorithms that are in place now. And the legal challenges against that system were based on the CONCEPT -- not on the MISUSE of such an Awesome capability...

Well maybe you did cover it. But as for metadata, is it correct that the current law remains that the phone carriers retain the data unless a Fisa or other warrant issues?

 

[flacaltenn]

You DO have a right of anonymity in Foreign conversations. OTHERWISE if you run a multinational business, some GS18 security analyst could bankrupt your companies' stock price or get rich based on info. US citizens are NOT revealed in FOREIGN intercepts unless there is a SPECIFIC warrant from the FISA court (FISC) to surveil that person or organization or a special request from a group that used to be 20 or 30 people (Obama made that 100s) to UNmask that person.

The issue is -- The Patriotic Act DOMESTIC spy operation operates on BULK WARRANTS. Meaning that since they collect and store EVERY e-comm in the US domestically -- they don't NEED special warrants to retain ID information in the database. So it's ripe for abuse, probably HAS been abused by the Dem Admin. And the FISA court just issued this memo OUTLINING their abuses and lack of NSA compliance. It HAPPENED..

Well, the intelligence agency that intercepts a US citizen's call from the US to an overseas entity knows who the American is, and any information that can lead to a warrant is fair game. And that apparently is what caught up Team Trump. THAT was the OP subject: illegal OVERSEA spying. I don't think either W or Obama was accused of that ... unless it's in some asshat wacko fringe site like in the OP. Generally, the public at large and even officials outside the in4elligence agency are not give the US citizen's name ... unless there is a reason collecting intelligence or understanding some issue needs the unmasking. But again, that has nothing to do with the thread. But if you want to assert some Trump guys were wrongfully unmasked... go for it.

As to your second paragraph, why do you assert only the dems abused bulk data?

No.. Foreign intel ops are NOT interested in garden variety American criminal justice. No NEED to reveal identities of citizens and Organizations because they are not law enforcement. They are only interested in foreign affairs and any imminents threats to domestic security.

Yes --- to date --- the Blue Team has a large track record not only turning the Domestic "terrorist surveillance systems" into a political weapon, but also weaponizing the power of agencies like the IRS against groups like the Tea Party. The LATTER --- probably done with the CO-OPERATION of GOP leadership...

I'd have an easier time taking you seriously if you acknowledged that W's administration was actually doing the warrantless domestic spying.

Already covered that. Took 10 years to develop the Big Brother collection and storage system. Didn't open the Grand Palace of Domestic Spying in Utah until 2011 or 2012. So all of that early "bulk collection" was used to TRAIN and DEVELOP the algorithms that are in place now. And the legal challenges against that system were based on the CONCEPT -- not on the MISUSE of such an Awesome capability...

Well maybe you did cover it. But as for metadata, is it correct that the current law remains that the phone carriers retain the data unless a Fisa or other warrant issues?

Obviously not. They pulled conversations from Flynn that were weeks old. Big Brother is fully alive and kicking..

Couldn't have captured that stuff "live"...

 

[Doc1]

Whatever doc. Whether it was right or wrong to spy on Merkle is not the issue, the issue is it's not illegal and has nothing to do with the US const.

Whatever you say Doc. You're clearly well versed in the 4th Amend.

Debbie, I pretty much signed off on the bulk data thing after this.

No, NSA Phone Spying Has Not Ended

I think it's still a real possibility they collect bulk, or metadata, concerning drug and child porn crimes.

More importantly am well versed in FISA and the Patriot Act. You've been wrong at every turn. There is no reason to give the American Gov. any benefit of the doubt. Nothing is protecting you or me.

 

[Doc1]

Obama intel agency secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years




I say we impeach that sumbitch rat F'n now.

He's out of office so who cares what he did, You're an idiot.

 

[debbiedowner]

A relative out west told me he had a friend that had FBI knock on his door during the campaign from his posts on facebook. He was investigated and nothing happened, he just really hated Clinton. He did get rid of his fb page though.