Obama could have left troops in Iraq beyond December 31, 2011 - WITHOUT IMMUNITY

[ScienceRocks]

Maybe as we pull our troops home and take apart our empire, we could make regional military powers, which we would just hand over our hardware to.

Iraq would become the middle eastern regional military power
Germany would become the European military power
India, central Asian military power
We would likely hold the western Pacific or maybe give Japan our hardware and allow them to form there own military
We would have to think about what country would take our place in Africa.
South America, Brazil


Once we're done doing this...We could be within our own nation as the military power of north America. It would be cheaper as 1# We wouldn't have to defend the whole world anymore or 2# Move the hardware back home.

This is what President Ron Paul should do. It would allow for these regional powers to keep the peace instead of us.

We wouldn't have to be the global police anymore!

 

[Trajan]

I think many are missing the point as to why U.S. troops are leaving Iraq by December 31, 2011:

Obama announces U.S. troops leaving Iraq by year's end

The Associated Press
Date: Fri. Oct. 21 2011

In recent months, Washington had been discussing with Iraqi leaders the possibility of several thousand American troops remaining to continue training Iraqi security forces.

Throughout the discussions, Iraqi leaders refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, and the Americans refused to stay without that guarantee.

Moreover, Iraq's leadership has been split on whether it wanted American forces to stay.

When the 2008 agreement requiring all U.S. forces to leave Iraq was passed, many U.S. officials assumed it would inevitably be renegotiated so that Americans could stay longer.

The U.S. said repeatedly this year it would entertain an offer from the Iraqis to have a small force stay behind, and the Iraqis said they would like American military help. But as the year wore on and the number of American troops that Washington was suggesting could stay behind dropped, it became increasingly clear that a U.S. troop presence was not a sure thing.

The issue of legal protection for the Americans was the deal-breaker.

More: Obama announces U.S. troops leaving Iraq by year's end - CTV News

As I understand it, Obama could have left troops in Iraq past year-end - but because Iraqi leaders refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts - Obama is pulling them out. Thank you, Mr. President.

 

[Trajan]

I didn't think righties would pay much attention to this thread. I was right...

that becasue a) you are uber-partisan which leads to b) you are bereft of logic, c) due to-A- there is no reason to engage with you, c) see -A and -B-

 

[Full-Auto]

I think many are missing the point as to why U.S. troops are leaving Iraq by December 31, 2011:

Obama announces U.S. troops leaving Iraq by year's end

The Associated Press
Date: Fri. Oct. 21 2011

In recent months, Washington had been discussing with Iraqi leaders the possibility of several thousand American troops remaining to continue training Iraqi security forces.

Throughout the discussions, Iraqi leaders refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, and the Americans refused to stay without that guarantee.

Moreover, Iraq's leadership has been split on whether it wanted American forces to stay.

When the 2008 agreement requiring all U.S. forces to leave Iraq was passed, many U.S. officials assumed it would inevitably be renegotiated so that Americans could stay longer.

The U.S. said repeatedly this year it would entertain an offer from the Iraqis to have a small force stay behind, and the Iraqis said they would like American military help. But as the year wore on and the number of American troops that Washington was suggesting could stay behind dropped, it became increasingly clear that a U.S. troop presence was not a sure thing.

The issue of legal protection for the Americans was the deal-breaker.

More: Obama announces U.S. troops leaving Iraq by year's end - CTV News

As I understand it, Obama could have left troops in Iraq past year-end - but because Iraqi leaders refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts - Obama is pulling them out. Thank you, Mr. President.

THE IRONY IS ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE. It wasnt so long ago they wanted the ham sandwich to face trial.

 

[Lakhota]

Huh? I see NO contradictions in anything I have posted in this thread. It was all about IMMUNITY.

 

[Trajan]

Huh? I see NO contradictions in anything I have posted in this thread. It was all about IMMUNITY.

can't see the forest for the trees

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can't see the forest for the trees definition

An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at the situation as a whole: “The congressman became so involved in the wording of his bill that he couldn't see the forest for the trees; he did not realize that the bill could never pass.”

food for thought.

 

[clevergirl]

How did Obama "cave"? Please provide some credible proof? Iraq is once again a "sovereign" country - so how was Obama supposed to "dictate" to them?

It isn't about dictating. It is about providing further stability.. Maliki wanted a US troop presence beyond the deadline. Obama did cave... but not out of weakness IMO- but out of political strategy for the 2012 election. In other words, a purely self centered maneuver.

So it has nothing to do with Obama keeping to his commitment

I'm confused. So, you would have preferred that Obama agree to keep troops in Iraq WITHOUT IMMUNITY and have American troops subject to Iraqi prosecution and lawsuits? I wonder how the troops feel about that? I think I know...

Maliki: Immunity scuttled troop deal - Associated Press - POLITICO.com

I was responding to your response to the poster Tipsycatlover comment
"Immunity was agreed upon by Malki, it was the cleric, Al-Sadr that demanded no immunity and obama caved."

Of course US troops could not be left behind in a country who would not grant them immunity (meaning we wanted sovereignty over that). But what part of Tipry's comment did you not understand? Obama caved. He had Maliki on his side- he could have pushed. Instead he attempted to make it seem as though he is keeping a promise. Does he want Iraq to fall into chaos? If not, he should have been pushing harder for the right terms.

 

[Katzndogz]

Immunity was agreed upon by Malki, it was the cleric, Al-Sadr that demanded no immunity and obama caved. He wouldn't fight for it. Not even with Maliki's support.

I blame Bush. Had Bush not been stricken with an act of conscience way back when Sadr was bottled up and killed him right then and there we wouldn't have the controversy.

It doesn't matter anyway. Iraq is going to become another fundamentalist islamic regime just like Tunisia, Libya, Iran, and all the rest.

How did Obama "cave"? Please provide some credible proof? Iraq is once again a "sovereign" country - so how was Obama supposed to "dictate" to them?

obama dictates to the American people, he is supposed to negotiate with foreign governments. But that would mean negotiating from a position of strength and he doesn't have that.

Iraq is gone. We may as well have never gone in there. It will become the same kind of despotic tyrannical government as any other terrorist governed islamic nation. How's that arab spring working out. Egypt, Tunisia, Libya. Now the fool in the white house can jaunt off to Syria to give Al Quaeda another country.

 

[Avorysuds]

I don't see how anyone could say Obama is lying or accepting undue praise. He had a choice to make - and he made it.

It sounds like Obama is leaving 15k troops in Iraq, the war is not over. Not the first time and not the second time Obama ended it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Here's how badly president STUPID f**ked up.

News from The Associated Press

By giving in to Al Sadr instead of sticking with Maliki, obama undermined Maliki and put the crazy cleric in a position of power which goes right through him to Iran.

In an interview released Saturday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tehran has "a very good relationship" with Iraq's government, and said the relationship will continue to grow.

"We have deepened our ties day by day," Ahmadinejad said in the interview, broadcast Saturday on CNN.

Of COURSE they have! And now they have all those neato American weapons too.

 

[Katzndogz]

I don't see how anyone could say Obama is lying or accepting undue praise. He had a choice to make - and he made it.

It sounds like Obama is leaving 15k troops in Iraq, the war is not over. Not the first time and not the second time Obama ended it.

Those few troops won't be able to defend themselves much less the Iraqis. Iran is going to make it a bloodbath. Especially, don't forget, the new Rules of Engagement that come close to prohibiting self defense for our military.

Oh this is gonna be real real bad.

 

[clevergirl]

I don't see how anyone could say Obama is lying or accepting undue praise. He had a choice to make - and he made it.

It sounds like Obama is leaving 15k troops in Iraq, the war is not over. Not the first time and not the second time Obama ended it.

Those few troops won't be able to defend themselves much less the Iraqis. Iran is going to make it a bloodbath. Especially, don't forget, the new Rules of Engagement that come close to prohibiting self defense for our military.

Oh this is gonna be real real bad.

I don't think his unwillingness to stand with Maliki is stupidity, it's political calculation . It has everything to do with this being an election year.

 

[Lakhota]

Here's how badly president STUPID f**ked up.

News from The Associated Press

By giving in to Al Sadr instead of sticking with Maliki, obama undermined Maliki and put the crazy cleric in a position of power which goes right through him to Iran.

In an interview released Saturday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tehran has "a very good relationship" with Iraq's government, and said the relationship will continue to grow.

"We have deepened our ties day by day," Ahmadinejad said in the interview, broadcast Saturday on CNN.

Of COURSE they have! And now they have all those neato American weapons too.

Where is Al Sadr mentioned in your link? I didn't see his name mentioned. Did Maliki have "authority" to grant IMMUNITY? Here is your link again under its correct title:

Clinton to Iran: Don't misread departure from Iraq

 

[Full-Auto]

Here's how badly president STUPID f**ked up.

News from The Associated Press

By giving in to Al Sadr instead of sticking with Maliki, obama undermined Maliki and put the crazy cleric in a position of power which goes right through him to Iran.

In an interview released Saturday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tehran has "a very good relationship" with Iraq's government, and said the relationship will continue to grow.

"We have deepened our ties day by day," Ahmadinejad said in the interview, broadcast Saturday on CNN.

Of COURSE they have! And now they have all those neato American weapons too.

Where is Al Sadr mentioned in your link? I didn't see his name mentioned. Did Maliki have "authority" to grant IMMUNITY? Here is your link again under its correct title:

Clinton to Iran: Don't misread departure from Iraq

Are you as awed as I am? Damn that 16 months went by quick.

 

[Lakhota]

How did Obama "cave"? I wish one of you righties could explain that above a Forrest Gump level based on reported facts.

 

[Avorysuds]

I don't see how anyone could say Obama is lying or accepting undue praise. He had a choice to make - and he made it.

It sounds like Obama is leaving 15k troops in Iraq, the war is not over. Not the first time and not the second time Obama ended it.

Those few troops won't be able to defend themselves much less the Iraqis. Iran is going to make it a bloodbath. Especially, don't forget, the new Rules of Engagement that come close to prohibiting self defense for our military.

Oh this is gonna be real real bad.

Than I dare Obama to live up to his wrod, end the war and bring the Troops home.

 

[clevergirl]

How did Obama "cave"? I wish one of you righties could explain that above a Forrest Gump level based on reported facts.

It's been explained 3 or 4 times now. If it has still not been comprehended by you, I guess it is because you'd need an IQ at least as high, as Forrest Gump's ... and apparently you don't.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Clearly, the OP has a Masters in International Relations and knows all about such topics.

Oh.... wait.... no, she doesn't. She's just some clueless twit... and a racist.

That's about 90% of the people here.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Actually, if Clinton had given the 'go' to killing Bin Laden when we had him surrounded and quite literally in our gun site, this whole clusterfuck would never have happened, including 9/11.

Wait, I thought Clinton was just wagging the dog? Now, he wasn't doing enough?

 

[Trajan]

How did Obama "cave"? I wish one of you righties could explain that above a Forrest Gump level based on reported facts.

here; cut and dried on your Gump level-

he forced the Iraqis to refute him in public becasue had not been pushing this slowly and long enough, he thought as he usually does that preparation, carrot and stick, the usual negotiating tools didn't apply, (and this is not new anyway) ,the magic of his name and his personal request served up at a big meeting requested by us, would win them over on this point in particular, they of course were forced to loudly deny him as they had no time to build a consensus amongst their factions. He stampeded them.

It is a negotiation fail of the first order.