- Oct 20, 2013
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- Thread starter
- #21
First of all, I read POSTS, not books, OK ? Only reason mine was so long, was a list for REFERENCE, no need to read the whole list of killers who killed again when they didn't get the pure deterrent > the death penalty.Great job of making a fool out of yourself. Now for the easy refute >>
1. Exonerations with DNA - Instead of exonerating with DNA, the correct thing would be to present that DNA in the trial to begin with, and then those convicts would never be convicted.
2. Recanted testimony - Nobody should be sentenced to death merely on "testimony" (which can always be faulty).
3. Fear of putting innocent man to death - there is the fear of not putting a guilty man to death, only to have him kill more people, after his conviction.
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John McRae -- Michigan/Florida. Life for murder of 8-year-old boy. Pedophile. Paroled 1971. Convicted of another murder of a boy after parole, in Michigan 1998. Charges pending on 2 other counts in Florida.
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John Miller -- California. Killed an infant 1957, convicted of murder, 1958. Paroled 1975. Killed his parents 1975. Life term 1975.
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Michael Lawrence -- Florida. Killed robbery victim. Life term, 1976. Paroled 1985. Killed robbery victim. Condemned 1990.
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Donald Dillbeck -- Florida. Killed policeman in 1979. Escaped from prison in 1990, kidnapped and killed female motorist after escape. Condemned 1991.
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Edward Kennedy -- Florida. Killed motel clerk. Sentenced to Life. Escaped 1981. Killed policeman and male civilian after prison break. Executed 1992.
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Dawud Mu'Min -- Virginia. Killed cab driver in holdup. Sentenced 1973. Escaped 1988. Raped/killed woman 1988. Condemned 1989. Executed 1997.
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Viva Nash -- Utah/Arizona. Two terms of life for murder in Utah, 1978. Escaped in 1982. Murdered again. Condemned in Arizona, 1983.
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Randy Greenawalt -- Escaped from Prison in 1978, while serving a life sentence for a 1974 murder. He then murdered a family of 4 people, shotgunning them to death, including a toddler.
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Norman Parker -- Florida/D.C. Life term in Florida for murder, 1966. Escaped 1978. Life on another count of murder in 1979.
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Winford Stokes -- Missouri. Ruled insane on two counts of murder 1969. Escaped from asylum, 1978. Murdered again. Executed for this murder, 1990.
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Charles Crawford -- Missouri. Life term in 1965 for murder. Paroled 1990. Convicted of murder again in 1994.
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Jack Ferrell -- Florida. Committed Murdered 1981. 15 years to life, 1982. Paroled 1987. Murdered again 1992. Condemned 1993.
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Timothy Buss -- Murdered five-year-old girl. Sentenced to 25 years in 1981. Paroled 1993. Murdered 10-year-old boy. Condemned 1996.
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Martsay Bolder -- Missouri. Serving a sentence of life for first-degree murder in 1973. Murdered prison cellmate 1979.
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Henry Brisbon, Illinois. Murdered 2 in robbery. Sentenced to 1000- 3000 years. Killed inmate in prison 1982. Sentenced to DP. Commuted by Governor Ryan.
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Randolph Dial -- Oklahoma. Life for murder 1986. Escaped from prison with deputy warden's wife as kidnap victim. 1989. Still at large. Warden's wife never found.
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Arthur J. Bomar, Jr. -- released from prison in Nevada on parole in 1990. Bomar had served 11 years of a murder sentence for killing a man over an argument about a parking space. Six years later in Pennsylvania, Bomar brutally kidnapped, raped and murdered George Mason University star athlete Aimee Willard.
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Dwain Little -- Oregon. Raped/Stabbed 16-year-old girl. Life term 1966. Paroled 1974. Returned as Parole Violator 1975. Again Released 1977. Then shot family of 4. Three consecutive life terms for rape and murder 1980.
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Arthur Shawcross (The 'Monster of the Rivers') -- Released after serving a 25 year sentence for a child murder, turned to murdering prostitutes. At least 10 in all. Now serving ten consecutive sentences of 25 years to life - 250 years in all.
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Samuel D. Smith -- in prison for murdering Zita Casey, 79, during a burglary in St. Louis in 1978. While in prison he murdered another inmate, Marlin May, during a knife fight in 1987 in prison.
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Darrell P. Pandeli -- After being released from prison after a conviction for murder, Pandeli murdered a prostitute, cut off her nipples and flushed them down the toilet. Now on DR in Arizona for that second recidivist murder.
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Chad Allen Lee -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Released and went on murder spree. Murdering Linda Reynolds, a pizza delivery person, and 9 days later robbed and murdered David Lacey, a taxi cab driver. Lee then robbed a mini-market 7 days after than. Shooting the owner, Harold Drury, multiple times without reason.
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Scott Lehr -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. After release, between Feb 91 and Feb 92 lured 10 different female victims, between the ages of 10 and 48-years-old, into his car. Raping and beating them unconscious, stripped and adandoned them in the desert. Three of his victims died in those acts.
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James Erin McKinney -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. Then murdered Christine Mertens in a home invasion robbery. Later murdered James McClain in another separate home invasion robbery.
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Michael Murdaugh -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. After release murdered David Reynolds. Beating him to death. When 'dumping' the body, Murdaugh severed Reynold's head and hands, pulled out his teeth, and buried the body parts.
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Charles Daniels -- was convicted and sentenced to Life for the 1965 rape and murder of a Louisiana woman. Later having his sentence commuted, he was release. And he again killed another woman, 32-year-old Debbie Tatum.
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Jarmarr Arnold -- who, while on DR, murdered another DR inmate by stabbing him in the forehead with a sharpen spike. Proving that not even a death sentence can prevent murder until the sentence is carried out.
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Robert Lee Massie -- Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman, which resulted in him committing further new murders.
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Kenneth McDuff - Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman. Subsequently released, and murdered as many as 19 young women after his release. Finally executed in 1998 for the murder of Melissa Ann Northrup see ... Who once remarked "Killing a woman is like killing a chicken. They both squawk."
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Darryl Kemp -- Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman. Subsequently released. Authorities now say he raped and strangled a woman jogging, less than 4 months later.
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Timothy Hancock -- Serving a life sentence for a murder he committed in 1990, murdered his cellmate, Jason Wagner, in November 2000, while serving his life sentence.
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Howard Allen -- murdered an elderly woman.. Opal Cooper, in Aug 1974, and was sentenced to 21 years in prison. By January 1985, less than ten years after being incarcerated, Howard Allen was released. On May 20, 1987 Howard Allen broke into the home of eighty-seven year old Laverne Hale, and savagely beat her to death. Six weeks later Allen struck again. On July 13, 1987 Howard Allen knocked on the door of Ernestine Griffin. At lunchtime the following day she was found murdered. On June 11, 1988 Allen was found guilty was found guilty of Ernestine’s murder.
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Melvin Geary -- originally sentenced to L wop, for the stabbing death of a woman in 1973 with a boning knife. Changed to Life.. released... After his release, Geary was subsequently convicted of murdering 71-year-old Edward Colvin of Sparks, again with a boning knife after Colvin took him in.
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William Coday Jr. -- convicted of murdering 19-year-old Lisa Hullinger in September 1978. After spending just 15 months in a German prison, he was released. In April 2002, he was convicted of having murdered Gloria Gomez on 13 July, 1997.
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Corey R. Barton -- In 1983 he murdered 16-year-old Shari-Ann Merton. He received 18 years in prison. He was released after serving 9 years and 8 months. In November 1998, he murdered 27 year-old Sally Harris of North Carolina.
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Cuhuatemoc Hinricky Peraita -- Rainbow City, Alabama, who was serving life without parole for 3 murders in Gadsden, Alabama was found guilty of capital murder for murdering a fellow inmate.
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James Prestridge -- Sentenced to L wop, for murdering Esfandiar Ateighechi, as he begged for his life in 1989. Escaped from prison along with John Doran. After their escape Prestridge murdered his fellow-escapee John Doran, shooting him in the back of the head.
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Jimmy Lee Gray -- who was free on parole from an Arizona conviction for killing a 16-year-old high school girl, kidnapped, sodomized, and suffocated a three-year-old Mississippi girl.
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Jack Henry Abbott, who had murdered a fellow prison inmate, was released early from a Utah prison. On July 18, 1981, six-weeks after his release, Abbott stabbed actor Richard Adan to death in New York.
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Benny Lee Chaffin, on December 7, 1984 kidnapped, raped, and murdered a 9-year-old Springfield, Oregon girl. He had been convicted of murder once before in Texas, but not executed.
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Thomas Eugene Creech, who had been convicted of three murders and had claimed a role in more than 40 killings in 13 states as a paid killer for a motorcycle gang, killed a fellow prison inmate in 1981 and was sentenced to death.
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Wayne Henry Garrison, 42, was convicted of 1st-degree murder in the death of Justin Wiles 13, of Tulsa. As a teenager, Garrison had killed two children in Tulsa. Police earlier said the circumstances of those killings were similar to Justin's death.
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Tommy Arthur -- sentenced to die in Alabama's electric chair for killing Troy Wicker in a 1982 murder for-hire scheme in Muscle Shoals. Arthur had already been convicted in 1977 of killing the sister of his common-law wife. He had been sentenced to life for that murder.
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Robert Lynn Pruett -- a convicted killer already serving a life sentence, fatally stabbed prison guard Daniel Nagle with a sharpened rod while patrolling the Texas Department of Criminal Justice McConnell Unit near Beeville in South Texas. It was the first fatal attack on a Texas corrections officer since guard Minnie Houston was stabbed to death in 1984 by an inmate at the Ellis Unit near Huntsville, a prison official said.
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Miguel Salas Rodriguez -- charged in the murder of a sheriff's deputy. Sgt. David M. Furrh, 40, in Dec 2000. Rodriguez had a December 1973 conviction of homicide without malice, for which he was sentenced to five years in prison. And yet ANOTHER conviction for murder in April 1979, for which he was sentenced to 70 years in prison. Rodriguez was paroled in October 1989.
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Bennie Demps --condemned to the DP for the 1976 murder of Alfred Sturgis, a prison snitch. Originally, Demps was sent to death row for the murders of R.N. Brinkworth and Celia Puhlick, who were fatally shot in a Lake County citrus grove. A year after Demps was sent to death row, the U.S. Supreme Court threw out capital punishment across the country, ruling death sentences had been imposed in an arbitrary way. Another failure of the Furman-commuted murderers.
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Leroy Schmitz -- convicted of strangling his live-in girlfriend in 1986, during an argument. He was sentenced to 18-20 years for that homicide. He was later convicted of murdering his wife, in Whitefish, Montana in 1999.
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Vernon Sattiewhite -- In 1977, Sattiewhite had been sentenced to five years for a murder but was paroled two years later and granted clemency. In 1984, he was convicted of robbery and sentenced to two years in prison but was paroled after less than six months. Soon after he murdered his ex-girlfriend, Sandra Sorrell.
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Tomas G. Ervin -- Sentenced to death in 1990, after conviction of the December 1988 murders of Mildred L. Hodges, 75, and her son, Richard E. Hodges. Bert Hunter, who was arrested along with Ervin pleaded guilty to the first-degree murder charges. Hunter and Ervin had met in the Missouri State Penitentiary, where they were both serving life sentences for previous murders.
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William Michael "Billy the Kid" Mason -- killed his wife three weeks after he was paroled on another murder conviction.
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Daniel Joe Hittle -- convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death for murdering a police officer Hittle, 40, was described by witnesses as a man who gleefully killed or tortured animals and who routinely beat women and children. He was on parole for the killings of his adoptive parents in Minnesota when he shot Garland police officer Gerald Walker during a traffic stop. Hittle then sped to East Dallas, where he fatally shot Mary Alice Goss, 39; Richard Joseph Cook Jr., 36; Raymond Scott Gregg, 19; and Goss' 4-year-old daughter Christy Condon.
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Tony Walker -- Texas. Convicted of murder in 1978. Sentenced to 5 years. Murdered a 66 year-old woman and her 81 year-old husband in 1992. Jerome Butler -- Found guilty of the shooting of cab driver Nathan Oakley, 67. Oakley had been a Houston cab driver for 30 years. Butler had an extensive criminal history, including a 1959 conviction on two counts of robbery and assault in New York City. Butler had previously served about 10 years of a 30-year sentence after pleading guilty to the murder of A.C. Johnson, 69.
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Dalton Prejean -- killed a taxi driver when he was 14, . When he was 17, he gunned down a state trooper in Lafayette, Louisiana. Despite protests from the American Civil Liberties Union and other abolitionist groups, Prejean was executed for the second murder on May 18, 1990.
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Phillip Jablonski -- Carol Spadoni married Jablonski on June 16, 1982, while he was serving a prison sentence for the 1979 murder of his third wife, Melinda Kimball. After she became his pen-pal correspondent in prison. Jablonski murdered his prison pen-pal wife and her mother. And the day before those murders he had murdered Fathyma Vann, 38, in Indio, about 25 miles from Palm Springs, Vann was found shot and sexually mutilated in the desert with ``I love Jesus'' carved in her back." Now GET THIS -- See... It seems that Phillip Jablonski, now in prison after ALL those murders, placed an ad for a pen-pal -- "Jewish Death Row inmate, white, 51 years old, seeking understanding and open female or male for honest correspondence. Amateur poet, artist. Will answer all correspondence received. PHILLIP JABLONSKI, C-02477/SE95, San Quentin, CA 94974"
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Jerry Michael Ward -- Originally sentenced to die in the electric chair, for committing murder with malice in the rape and murder of a Houston school girl. His sentence was commuted to life in prison when the U.S. Supreme Court abolished the death penalty in 1972. Although the death penalty was reinstated, the sentence was not. He was subsequently paroled in 1984 after serving 18 years in prison. He was the number one suspect in two new cases, involving the the disappearance of Connie Sue Cooke, and the murder of Brenda Maureen Hackett. But althought police were on the verge of arresting him, Ward committed suicide in a self-inflicted execution.
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David E. Maust -- Hammond, Illinois. Murdered a 15-year-old boy in 1981. After released murdered three teenage boys, in circumstances similiar to John Wayne Gacy... burying their bodies in concrete in his basement.
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James Homer Elledge -- sent to prison for life in 1975 after beating a Seattle motel owner to death with a ball-peen hammer. In the years that followed, he won parole 3 times, most recently in August 1995. prosecutors have now charged Elledge with 1st-degree murder for allegedly stabbing and strangling Eloise Jane Fitzner, 47, in a church basement.
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Zeno E. Sims -- sent to prison for eight years for the murder of a 24-year-old-man. Released on parole, in Kansas City, he then murdered DeAntreia L Ashley, a 15-year-old-girl, after a minor traffic accident.
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Arthur James Julius -- convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. In 1978, he was given a brief leave from prison, during which he raped and murdered a cousin. He was sentenced to death for that crime and was executed on November 17, 1989.
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In March 1979, a Graterford (Pa.) prison guard was murdered brutally by an inmate. The inmate -- at the time he murdered the guard -- already was serving a life sentence for the triple murder of two infants and an elderly woman.
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In 1994, an inmate who already was serving two life sentences in the Philadelphia Industrial Correctional Center was sentenced to three more after he was convicted of stabbing three prison guards.
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In 1995, two death-row inmates at the Florida State Prison in Starke were killed by their fellow inmates.
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In 1999, a Beeville (Texas) prison guard was killed by an inmate already serving a sentence for murder.
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On November 9, 1983 Associate U.S. Attorney General D. Lowell Jensen told a Senate subcommittee that it is impossible to punish or even deter such prison murders because, without a death sentence, a violent life-termer has free rein "to continue to murder as opportunity and his perverse motives dictate."
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On October 22, 1983 at the federal penitentiary in Marion, Illinois, two prison guards were murdered in two SEPARATE instances by SEPARATE inmates who were both serving life terms for previously murdering inmates.
4. Expensive ? Here's the cost >> about 62 cents.
View attachment 331446
5. Legal costs - sure it would be expensive, if you drag it out for 30 years with endless appeals (all designed to make money (sales) for the legal profession). But there's no need to do that, and there never was. 2-3 years is all that's necessary. If a mass shooter killed people in a Walmart in front of a dozen video cameras, there's no need to delay anything, and give the killer the opportunity to kill again. some cases can go from arrest to execution in 3 months.
Your silly and disproven beliefs were dead long before you posted here.
The costs has nothing to do with the method of execution. It has everything to do with the legal costs, costs of holding the prisoner, and finally at the end of it is the method of execution. That my friend, is a drop in a particularly large bucket. Let’s go with Legal Costs shall we? The Supreme Court has ruled many times that only with a suitably experienced lawyer can a Death Penalty Case go forward. Those folks are expensive. Which means that the State, you know the cops, prosecutors, and all that, have to pay for it. That is taxpayers.
California, the State you are railing about, did some basic book keeping and found to their shock that they had spent $4 billion dollars on Capital Crime prosecutions. For which they had executed very few. The average cost per execution was more than $300 million. But let’s talk about those legal costs.
If we accept your premise that the most heinous crimes deserve the most severe penalties, than we have to insure that we are executing the right person. Not just someone, but the right someone. That is where all those legal things come in. We must make sure that the law was followed by people who detest the law, the cops.
If you read the book Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, about my own area, Savannah Georgia, and the Capital Murder trial that was covered in the book, you see that the lawyer got the accused off because of mistakes that tainted the evidence by the Police.
One was the protection of the evidence on the body of the deceased. The Police wrote in their reports that they had covered the hands of the deceased with Paper Bags to protect the skin and cell evidence in fingernails. Unfortunately, the Nurse at the Hospital where the deceased was transported, reported that she had put the paper bags on. The body had come in without the bags. Worse, the police photographed the scene, and moved things, while reporting that the scene was us disturbed before and during the photographs.
The accused was acquitted. A heinous murder went unpunished. Because we expect the police to follow the rules, and the procedures. I know what you’ll say, silly Liberals letting some nonsense get in the way.
But here is the problem with that. The Constitution, you know the thing the Oath Keepers seem so wound up about, says that we are supposed to think that way. Take the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment. Those amendments are obviously intended to make convictions difficult. Moreover, they plainly say that the police are supposed to tell the truth, which is why the Warrants are only granted after oath or affirmation. A solemn oath to tell the truth, written at a time when a lie could get you challenged to a duel.
So we approach our trials the way the Founders said to, making sure the Police followed procedures. Then after the trial, the record is examined, in minute detail, to insure that the rules were followed and that nothing inadvertently denied the accused of a fair trial. Again, a lawyer of sufficient experience must lead this effort, which is again, expensive.
In the meantime, we transport the accused to a prison where we put them in the Secure Holding Unit. Death row as it is sometimes called. It cost $90,000 a year more to house a prisoner there than in General Population. So we have more expensive trials, and more expensive prison costs, all for your lust for vengeance. And you think it is all about the way the person is executed.
The more overworked the court system is, the longer those appeals and reviews take. And those reviews have resulted in more than 100 people being exonerated from Death Row.
Now, I have made this offer before. I will switch and support the Death penalty, even rapid execution, if one small change is made. In the event that later review finds that the executed person was not guilty, then the Jury, Prosecutor, cops, and judge are all put to death within 90 days. They murdered an innocent man, and should pay don’t you agree? After all, it is why they said the accused had to die, he murdered an innocent. If you are willing to gamble with someone else’s life, shouldn’t you be willing to put your own life up as collateral? Or are you more comfortable betting on someone else’s life when you are at no risk? Put some skin in the game, make it interesting.
We haven’t even talked about the cost of the actual execution. We have spent millions of dollars, and we are no closer to the death chamber than we were at the trial. Millions of dollars.
Now, Conservative States just like Liberal States, aren’t executing people. Texas executed nine in 2019. Other hard right conservative states executed three. Georgia being one of those, Alabama and Tennessee being the other two who executed three each.
Hard core conservative states, and they aren’t rushing out to execute someone.
Honestly, if I was the Governor, I would commute their sentences to Life without Parole too. It is so much cheaper. A savings of $90,000 per inmate every year. 212 inmates are on Death Row in Texas. Let’s say they are spending only half as much more. So it is $45,000 per inmate per year. I know you can do the math, and come up with the same number I did. More than three quarters of a billion dollars every year.
Just to house those folks on Death Row. Every year on Death Row is about the same cost as a decade in General Population, even at the maximum security prisons.
Like high taxes? I know you don’t, but imagine the savings in dollars every year.
You aren’t going to get faster executions. Nobody is going to vote for that in the numbers you would need. And if you did, the Supreme Court, even the Conservative Justices, would rule it unconstitutional. You can’t vote to deprive someone of their constitutional rights. Otherwise Baptists would vote Catholics out of the South.
So now, finally ten or twenty years later, we get to the actual execution, where your idea would save some money. At this point we’ve spent at least a million dollars housing the guy on Death Row, and probably two million. We’ve spent at least ten million on legal costs, because the taxpayers fund the defense on the convict. And you think that the relative cost of a bullet will fix it? At that point, what is a couple hundred for medication and delivery? That is for one prisoner. One. Texas has 212 on death row, and only nine were executed last year. Nine.
It is cheaper, far cheaper, to just give the guy life without parole, and forget about him. No automatic appeals, no tax payer funded defense team, no free review of the case and all the evidence. And best of all it is far more humane to the families of the victims.
Because you see, they hear about the appeals every step of the way. So they relive the crime over and over again, for a decade, or two, or more. Perhaps a new trial is ordered because of a procedural error, and then they go through it again, and again.
Now the Life in Prison guy may have his conviction overturned, but that will be done by a public defender or a crusading law student. Not a thousand dollar an hour lawyer. The group Innocence Project might take the case and use DNA to exonerate the convicted. But again, it cost the taxpayer nothing for the defense. The taxpayers only pay for the prosecution, which is a lot cheaper.
You can‘t do it your way without depriving people of their rights, and if you feel that is ok, let’s talk Second Amendment, and how wrong it is, or right it is, to have someone deprive you of your rights.
Of course, death sentences must be from SURE evidence. I said that already.
It's really that simple. If you don't kill convicted killers, you give them the chance to kill more people. Only idiots do that.
To say that life imprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty is a scam, and a dumb one. Do I have to repeat ? If you drag out a conviction for 30 years with endless appeals and legal costs THEN yeah, it would be very expensive. Earth to DP Opponents: DON'T DO THAT. Nobody has a constitutional right to have 20 or 30 year appeals.
And now you say a year on death row costs the same as a decade in general population ? Oh yeah,
CAUTION! Death penalty opponents will say anything.. I got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. Interested ?Try posting again, concisely.
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