Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[Shusha]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

 

[BlackFlag]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Exactly HOW is America suffering for it?

And exactly how is America going to stop suffering if it caves in to the Muslim demand of "No Israel". No sovereignty, no self-determination to the Jewish People?

 

[Shusha]

Jewish rituals are no more special than other religions’ rituals. I consider that a profoundly stupid argument. So move on.

You find it a stupid argument because you are reducing the entirety of Jewish culture to Judaism and rituals. It has nothing to do with being special. Just the opposite. It is demanding the same level playing field as Catalonia. Catalan is a culture encapsulating many aspects, including, but not limited to, religion. So is the Jewish culture.

 

[Shusha]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Do you or do you not believe fundamentally, objectively in the right of peoples to self-determination, including the Jewish people?

 

[Shusha]

Do you believe that the Arab Palestinian people have a fundamental right to self-determination? And that they should be supported in obtaining it?

 

[Shusha]

Exactly HOW is America suffering for it?

And exactly how is America going to stop suffering if it caves in to the Muslim demand of "No Israel". No sovereignty, no self-determination to the Jewish People?

I second these questions.

 

[BlackFlag]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Exactly HOW is America suffering for it?

And exactly how is America going to stop suffering if it caves in to the Muslim demand of "No Israel". No sovereignty, no self-determination to the Jewish People?

We give away free money to a country with no interest in peace, we enact policies for Israel’s protection that really shouldn’t concern us, we are attacked, at times fatally, for choosing sides in religious madness, we have to stand alone against a world that condemns your government’s actions, we base our foreign policy around your preferences... I could go on and on

 

[BlackFlag]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Do you or do you not believe fundamentally, objectively in the right of peoples to self-determination, including the Jewish people?

Nobody has ever had an objective right to self determination. The people doing the self determining are the ones who eliminated the others in the vicinity who were trying to self determine. So your people happened to be in or around Israel thousands of years ago the day enough of them became convinced to believe in a bunch of magic. That is not special.

 

[BlackFlag]

Do you believe that the Arab Palestinian people have a fundamental right to self-determination? And that they should be supported in obtaining it?

No, but I wouldn’t care if they felt that way if it didn’t affect me.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Exactly HOW is America suffering for it?

And exactly how is America going to stop suffering if it caves in to the Muslim demand of "No Israel". No sovereignty, no self-determination to the Jewish People?

We give away free money to a country with no interest in peace, we enact policies for Israel’s protection that really shouldn’t concern us, we are attacked, at times fatally, for choosing sides in religious madness, we have to stand alone against a world that condemns your government’s actions, we base our foreign policy around your preferences... I could go on and on

How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?


Please, tell the American congress to not only stop helping Israel but stop giving money to the Palestinians who have been committing terrorist actions against Jews in Israel and all over the world since
1972 when 11 Israeli athletes were murdered in Munich.

Please, tell the EU and all others to also stop donating, as so many Arab countries have, to the Palestinians who have declared - more than clearly - that they will never negotiate any peace with Israel, because it is the Nation of the Jews.

I won't go into your endless nonsense on how "Israel and the Jews control America".

Enjoy your delusions.

 

[Shusha]

BlackFlag

The reason I ask about your stand on self-determination, is that your entrance into this thread was to claim that the declaration of self-determination is an obstacle to peace. And I reject that idea. On the contrary, the acceptance of self-determination for BOTH peoples is essential to peace. It is the core of peace.

Now it seems from your last two posts that you reject the idea of rights to self-determination by either side. And presumably that right for all other peoples as well.

Your point on this thread, then, is to remove the US (at least, I assume you are American) from the Arab/Israeli conflict because that conflict hurts you and the US?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Do you or do you not believe fundamentally, objectively in the right of peoples to self-determination, including the Jewish people?

Nobody has ever had an objective right to self determination. The people doing the self determining are the ones who eliminated the others in the vicinity who were trying to self determine. So your people happened to be in or around Israel thousands of years ago the day enough of them became convinced to believe in a bunch of magic. That is not special.

That is total and utter nonsense.
And you apply it only to the Jewish people's rights to their ancient homeland, regardless of whether you understand it or not.

 

[TNHarley]

Like the official implementation of apartheid to ensure Boer values were preserved.

Hmm that sounds really close to the response from the terrorist org in Palestine

 

[Shusha]

Nobody has ever had an objective right to self determination. The people doing the self determining are the ones who eliminated the others in the vicinity who were trying to self determine. So your people happened to be in or around Israel thousands of years ago the day enough of them became convinced to believe in a bunch of magic. That is not special.

You keep bringing up the word "special". You realize that the Jewish people are not asking for "special", right? The Jewish people want the same rights to self-determination as indigenous peoples everywhere have, or should have.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Do you believe that the Arab Palestinian people have a fundamental right to self-determination? And that they should be supported in obtaining it?

No, but I wouldn’t care if they felt that way if it didn’t affect me.

How does it affect you?

YOU are choosing to live in fear.

YOU are choosing in seeing both sides as the ones who started and will not end that conflict.

YOU are choosing to see Jews and Israel as being the "Masters" of America

YOU are the one who wants America to stop helping Israel and ONLY Israel.
Let America keep giving aid to the Palestinians, Saudi, Jordanians, Syrians, Russians, etc.

But Israel........Thanks, but no thanks.

So, where exactly is your level handed dealings for both sides?

Do you want the USA to stop aid to ALL others but to Americans?
Why? Why should it? When has the USA not been involved in helping others as it wants others to help this country, when necessary?

 

[BlackFlag]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Exactly HOW is America suffering for it?

And exactly how is America going to stop suffering if it caves in to the Muslim demand of "No Israel". No sovereignty, no self-determination to the Jewish People?

We give away free money to a country with no interest in peace, we enact policies for Israel’s protection that really shouldn’t concern us, we are attacked, at times fatally, for choosing sides in religious madness, we have to stand alone against a world that condemns your government’s actions, we base our foreign policy around your preferences... I could go on and on

How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?


Please, tell the American congress to not only stop helping Israel but stop giving money to the Palestinians who have been committing terrorist actions against Jews in Israel and all over the world since
1972 when 11 Israeli athletes were murdered in Munich.

Please, tell the EU and all others to also stop donating, as so many Arab countries have, to the Palestinians who have declared - more than clearly - that they will never negotiate any peace with Israel, because it is the Nation of the Jews.

I won't go into your endless nonsense on how "Israel and the Jews control America".

Enjoy your delusions.

Hey jackass, when have I voiced any support for palestinians? You going to call me an anti-semite again? Fucking hack.

 

[BlackFlag]

BlackFlag

The reason I ask about your stand on self-determination, is that your entrance into this thread was to claim that the declaration of self-determination is an obstacle to peace. And I reject that idea. On the contrary, the acceptance of self-determination for BOTH peoples is essential to peace. It is the core of peace.

Now it seems from your last two posts that you reject the idea of rights to self-determination by either side. And presumably that right for all other peoples as well.

Your point on this thread, then, is to remove the US (at least, I assume you are American) from the Arab/Israeli conflict because that conflict hurts you and the US?

You have 2 sides that believe they have a right to self-determination. The heart of the peace process is reconciling those 2 beliefs. The government that is in power and holds the cards just said that 1 of those groups now officially has no right to self-determination in the country. That is akin to the United States, instead of passing the civil rights act in the 60’s, had declared that black people will not have equal rights.

 

[Sixties Fan]

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Exactly HOW is America suffering for it?

And exactly how is America going to stop suffering if it caves in to the Muslim demand of "No Israel". No sovereignty, no self-determination to the Jewish People?

We give away free money to a country with no interest in peace, we enact policies for Israel’s protection that really shouldn’t concern us, we are attacked, at times fatally, for choosing sides in religious madness, we have to stand alone against a world that condemns your government’s actions, we base our foreign policy around your preferences... I could go on and on

How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?


Please, tell the American congress to not only stop helping Israel but stop giving money to the Palestinians who have been committing terrorist actions against Jews in Israel and all over the world since
1972 when 11 Israeli athletes were murdered in Munich.

Please, tell the EU and all others to also stop donating, as so many Arab countries have, to the Palestinians who have declared - more than clearly - that they will never negotiate any peace with Israel, because it is the Nation of the Jews.

I won't go into your endless nonsense on how "Israel and the Jews control America".

Enjoy your delusions.

Hey jackass, when have I voiced any support for palestinians? You going to call me an anti-semite again? Fucking hack.

Oh, so you do not support anybody.
All you do is "cry" about how it affects your life, without telling us how it has actually affected, if ever, your life.

You do not support the Palestinians, but you are not crying about all the aid which goes to them which is very high:

How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?

You also do not say that America in a puppet to Muslims from anywhere, much less the Palestinians.

Well, if you do not say it and demand that only aid to Israel be stopped......

Yes, me stupid Jackass and Hack who does not understand at all what you write.

Poor me

 

[BlackFlag]

Do you believe that the Arab Palestinian people have a fundamental right to self-determination? And that they should be supported in obtaining it?

No, but I wouldn’t care if they felt that way if it didn’t affect me.

How does it affect you?

YOU are choosing to live in fear.

YOU are choosing in seeing both sides as the ones who started and will not end that conflict.

YOU are choosing to see Jews and Israel as being the "Masters" of America

YOU are the one who wants America to stop helping Israel and ONLY Israel.
Let America keep giving aid to the Palestinians, Saudi, Jordanians, Syrians, Russians, etc.

But Israel........Thanks, but no thanks.

So, where exactly is your level handed dealings for both sides?

Do you want the USA to stop aid to ALL others but to Americans?
Why? Why should it? When has the USA not been involved in helping others as it wants others to help this country, when necessary?

I would absolutely love for the U.S. to stop giving aid to all of those countries. Except maybe Jordan. Are they currently fueling any slaughters or conflicts? Does it help poverty there?

You have been completely unhinged and inventing failing strawmen for most of this thread. I won’t be responding to you again.