Noted Historian On Israel

[MJB12741]

Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?


Historian Andrew Roberts on ?What we owe the Jews? | CiF Watch

 

[member]

"Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?"

"......For many of their [arab] governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes."

"The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status; whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they are stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away"

 

[MJB12741]

An excellent synopsis of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. All unbiased facts that I cannot imagine how anyone with an open mind can deny.

"Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?"

"......For many of their [arab] governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes."

"The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status; whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they are stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away"

 

[Hossfly]

"Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?"

"......For many of their [arab] governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes."

"The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status; whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they are stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away"

The reason Palestinian leaders won't parley and sign agreements with Israel is their desire to stay alive to enjoy their ill-gotten gains.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Andrew Roberts is a Cambridge historian who recently published "The Storm of War" and his assessment of Israel is quite accurate. Anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head and there was a 58 percent increase in the number of anti-Semitic attacks in France last year and Israel has to survive in the hostile environment where its neighbouring states do not even recognise its existence. Anti-Semitism is the most common form of racial hatred and it often takes a veiled form as criticism of policies of the State of Israel.

After the Holocaust, the Jewish people recognized that they must have their own state, a homeland where they could forever be safe from a repetition of such horrors. Since then, Israel has had to fight five major wars for her existence. Radical Islam is never going to accept the concept of an Israeli State, so the struggle is likely to continue for another 60 years, but the Jews know that that is less dangerous than entrusting their security to anyone else. I recently visited Auschwitz-Birkenau. Walking along a line of huts and the railway hiding, where their forebears had been worked and starved and beaten and frozen and gassed to death, were a group of Jewish schoolchildren, one of whom was carrying over his shoulder the Israeli flag. It was a moving sight, for it was the sovereign independence represented by that flag which guarantees that the obscenity of genocide will never again befall the Jewish people. No people in history have needed the right to self-defense and legitimacy more than the Jews of Israel, and that is what we in the Friends of Israel Initiative demand here today.
Jerusalem News Network

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0[/ame]

 

[patrickcaturday]

An excellent synopsis of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. All unbiased facts that I cannot imagine how anyone with an open mind can deny.

"Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?"

"......For many of their [arab] governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes."

"The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status; whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they are stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away"

There are several things that call into question the above posts that I would like to adress.

First for MJB. in my mind your statement that the individual who wrote this opinion piece is unbiased is not true. The venue that he chooses to publish his articles in are propaganda sites and thus all articles that are published there are suspect. CiS is notably pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian second the original source of the article is from a site called Friends of Israel. Both of these sites are at the very least propaganda sites and thus as I said earlier open to question as to weather or not they are biased. Also suspicious is the fact that CiS published an editeted version, which leads one to ask why they did that.

The second set of problems is more serious and calls into question the honesty of the article and the posts. The article is racist in its very nature and also allows Israel to escape from any responsibility for the problems that it has created in the ME. Why should the surrounding Arab Countries be expected to foot the bill for the proplems that the Israelis have createt by making a group of people into refugees. Israel caused the problem they should be responcible for cleaning it up. Now say after the American Civil War how would you feel about a plan that says lets round up all the Blacks and send them back to Africa and let the Blacks back there take care of them. I know the anology has some faults in it but you can see the similarities, both are racist.

 

[sealadaigh]

Andrew Roberts is a Cambridge historian who recently published "The Storm of War" and his assessment of Israel is quite accurate. Anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head and there was a 58 percent increase in the number of anti-Semitic attacks in France last year and Israel has to survive in the hostile environment where its neighbouring states do not even recognise its existence. Anti-Semitism is the most common form of racial hatred and it often takes a veiled form as criticism of policies of the State of Israel.

After the Holocaust, the Jewish people recognized that they must have their own state, a homeland where they could forever be safe from a repetition of such horrors. Since then, Israel has had to fight five major wars for her existence. Radical Islam is never going to accept the concept of an Israeli State, so the struggle is likely to continue for another 60 years, but the Jews know that that is less dangerous than entrusting their security to anyone else. I recently visited Auschwitz-Birkenau. Walking along a line of huts and the railway hiding, where their forebears had been worked and starved and beaten and frozen and gassed to death, were a group of Jewish schoolchildren, one of whom was carrying over his shoulder the Israeli flag. It was a moving sight, for it was the sovereign independence represented by that flag which guarantees that the obscenity of genocide will never again befall the Jewish people. No people in history have needed the right to self-defense and legitimacy more than the Jews of Israel, and that is what we in the Friends of Israel Initiative demand here today.
Jerusalem News Network

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0[/ame]

not that i think states should be created to house people based upon their religious beliefs but if i did, the current state of israel should have been created out of a portion of germany. why penalise the arab people of palestine.

it is patently ridiculous to state that legitimate criticism of israel is anti-semitism. following that logic, we could say criticism of iran is anti-persian or criticism of uganda when idi amin was in his heyday is prejudiced against those with black skin. can you imagine someone saying that criticism of the NAZIs was anti-german? criticism of the catholic church's pedophile scandal is not necessarily anti-catholic.

as for anti-semitism being on the rise in europe, who the hell knows, particularlyi in light your and other's contention that criticism of israel is anti-semitism. "anti-semitism" should be a very serious charge and should be treaated very seriously. there is a very real danger that by leveling that charge in a frivolous and capricious manner (as andrew roberts and you are doing by equating legitimate criticism of israel as anti-semitism) in that it trivialises that charge and throws the doors wide open for real anti-semites to walk through unhindered.

 

[Roudy]

Andrew Roberts is a Cambridge historian who recently published "The Storm of War" and his assessment of Israel is quite accurate. Anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head and there was a 58 percent increase in the number of anti-Semitic attacks in France last year and Israel has to survive in the hostile environment where its neighbouring states do not even recognise its existence. Anti-Semitism is the most common form of racial hatred and it often takes a veiled form as criticism of policies of the State of Israel.

After the Holocaust, the Jewish people recognized that they must have their own state, a homeland where they could forever be safe from a repetition of such horrors. Since then, Israel has had to fight five major wars for her existence. Radical Islam is never going to accept the concept of an Israeli State, so the struggle is likely to continue for another 60 years, but the Jews know that that is less dangerous than entrusting their security to anyone else. I recently visited Auschwitz-Birkenau. Walking along a line of huts and the railway hiding, where their forebears had been worked and starved and beaten and frozen and gassed to death, were a group of Jewish schoolchildren, one of whom was carrying over his shoulder the Israeli flag. It was a moving sight, for it was the sovereign independence represented by that flag which guarantees that the obscenity of genocide will never again befall the Jewish people. No people in history have needed the right to self-defense and legitimacy more than the Jews of Israel, and that is what we in the Friends of Israel Initiative demand here today.
Jerusalem News Network

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0[/ame]

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MJB12741]

That's just according to MLK. You see, according to Tinmore, Palestine is a "model democracy."

Andrew Roberts is a Cambridge historian who recently published "The Storm of War" and his assessment of Israel is quite accurate. Anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head and there was a 58 percent increase in the number of anti-Semitic attacks in France last year and Israel has to survive in the hostile environment where its neighbouring states do not even recognise its existence. Anti-Semitism is the most common form of racial hatred and it often takes a veiled form as criticism of policies of the State of Israel.

After the Holocaust, the Jewish people recognized that they must have their own state, a homeland where they could forever be safe from a repetition of such horrors. Since then, Israel has had to fight five major wars for her existence. Radical Islam is never going to accept the concept of an Israeli State, so the struggle is likely to continue for another 60 years, but the Jews know that that is less dangerous than entrusting their security to anyone else. I recently visited Auschwitz-Birkenau. Walking along a line of huts and the railway hiding, where their forebears had been worked and starved and beaten and frozen and gassed to death, were a group of Jewish schoolchildren, one of whom was carrying over his shoulder the Israeli flag. It was a moving sight, for it was the sovereign independence represented by that flag which guarantees that the obscenity of genocide will never again befall the Jewish people. No people in history have needed the right to self-defense and legitimacy more than the Jews of Israel, and that is what we in the Friends of Israel Initiative demand here today.
Jerusalem News Network

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRPrlq5zG0[/ame]

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[toastman]

Democracy you say, MJB ?

*WARNING* GRAPHIC FOOTAGE

Kneecaps and Bones Brutally Fractured by Hamas Militia (video) | Best Gore

Here's a pic of Hamas Militants dragging the lifeless body of a man who was accused of collaborating with Israel. BTW, he had NO TRIAL

Some democracy

 

[MJB12741]

Not so bad compared to Syria. Let us ask Tinmore if Syria is also a "model democracy."

Democracy you say, MJB ?

*WARNING* GRAPHIC FOOTAGE

Kneecaps and Bones Brutally Fractured by Hamas Militia (video) | Best Gore

Here's a pic of Hamas Militants dragging the lifeless body of a man who was accused of collaborating with Israel. BTW, he had NO TRIAL

Some democracy

 

[toastman]

Israel even allows their prisoners to get a university degree:

Palestinian prisoners in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Eventually, Palestinian prisoners were allowed to take online courses from the Open University of Israel, and to complete academic degrees. Under the program, education for the prisoners was free, with prison authorities paying their university tuition. In 2009, there were 250 Palestinian prisoners studying at Israel's Open University."

 

[toastman]

Samir Kuntar, who smashed the skulls of several Israeli teenagers who were out hiking, got his degree in an Israeli prison:

One prisoner ? Samir Kuntar ? plays important role in conflict | McClatchy

"In prison, Kuntar has led hunger strikes and prison revolts and has earned a bachelor's degree (from the Open University of Tel Aviv, where he even took a course on the Holocaust)

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2006/07/22/14280/one-prisoner-samir-kuntar-plays.html#.UbC3VJzRuQI#storylink=cpy"

 

[toastman]

BTW, when Kuntar was released as part of a prisoner exchange with Hezbollah, he was greeted with a hero's welcome and hailed as a hero and Icon for the Lebanese people !

 

[editec]

Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?


Historian Andrew Roberts on ?What we owe the Jews? | CiF Watch

Well he obviously has a love affair with Israel, MJB.

He does not really address the question "What we owe the Jews?" though.

I read his vita and I don't really see where he's a scholar of mid-eastern history.

Look for yourself

The Holy Fox: A Biography of Lord Halifax, London : Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1991 ISBN 0-297-81133-9.
Eminent Churchillians, London : Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1994 ISBN 0-297-81247-5; Simon & Schuster, 1994, ISBN 978-0-671-76940-6
The Aachen Memorandum, London : Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1995 ISBN 0-297-81619-5.
Salisbury: Victorian Titan, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1999, ISBN 978-0-297-81713-0
The House of Windsor, Berkeley, Calif. : University of California Press, 2000, ISBN 0-520-22803-0.
Napoleon and Wellington : The Battle of Waterloo—And the Great Commanders Who Fought It. New York: Simon & Schuster. 2001. ISBN 0-297-64607-9.
Hitler and Churchill: Secrets of Leadership, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2003, ISBN 978-0-297-84330-6
What Might Have Been, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2004, ISBN 978-0-297-84877-6
Waterloo: June 18, 1815: The Battle for Modern Europe. New York: HarperCollins. 2005. ISBN 978-0-06-008866-8.
A History of the English Speaking Peoples since 1900, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2006, ISBN 978-0-297-85076-2
Masters and Commanders: How Roosevelt, Churchill, Marshall and Alanbrooke Won the War in the West (2008), Allen Lane, ISBN 978-0-7139-9969-3 (UK edition); Masters and Commanders: How Four Titans Won the War in the West, 1941-1945 (2009), Harper, ISBN 978-0-06-122857-5 (US edition).
The Art of War: Great Commanders of the Ancient and Medieval World, Quercus, 2008, ISBN 978-1-84724-515-1
The Art of War: Great Commanders of the Modern World Since 1600, Quercus, 2009, ISBN 978-1-84724-516-8
The Storm of War: a New History of the Second World War. Allen Lane. 2009. ISBN 978-0-7139-9970-9.; HarperCollins, 2011, ISBN 978-0-06-122859-9
Love, Tommy: Letters from the Front From the Great War to the Present Day, ISBN 1849087911

 

[Roudy]

Democracy you say, MJB ?

*WARNING* GRAPHIC FOOTAGE

Kneecaps and Bones Brutally Fractured by Hamas Militia (video) | Best Gore

Here's a pic of Hamas Militants dragging the lifeless body of a man who was accused of collaborating with Israel. BTW, he had NO TRIAL

Some democracy

Excellent example of Palestinian Mentality (TM).

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

An excellent synopsis of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. All unbiased facts that I cannot imagine how anyone with an open mind can deny.

"Who are we to believe, a noted historian, or America's & Israel's enemies?"

"......For many of their [arab] governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes."

"The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status; whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they are stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away"

How does anyone call obviously biased opinions of a man like this unbiased facts?

 

[MJB12741]

We understand Sherri. The truth hurts you.

An excellent synopsis of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. All unbiased facts that I cannot imagine how anyone with an open mind can deny.

"......For many of their [arab] governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes."

"The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status; whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they are stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away"

How does anyone call obviously biased opinions of a man like this unbiased facts?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Opinions of bigots have nothing to do with Truth.

 

[toastman]

Opinions of bigots have nothing to do with Truth.

Anything you post has nothing to do with the truth . And MJB is absolutely right, you can't handle the truth. IT hurts you too much ! So you just ignore it and continue with you propaganda campaign.