New IIPC report leaked!

Saigon

Gold Member
May 4, 2012
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Helsinki, Finland
The New IIPC report (the first since 2007) is not expected to be realised before 2014, but the excellent Der Spiegel offers some fascinating predictions in this very objective and balanced article as to what the report includes.

The new forecasts, the insiders say, will be more or less the same as the old ones, just more precise.

1) Precipitation forecasts will be made more conservative:

Computer models certainly show a clear trend: In places where it already rains a great deal, it will rain even more; and where it is currently dry, it will grow even drier. That's the theory, at least. The only problem is that, so far, these forecasts have not matched reality.

2) Rising ocean levels predictions will be increased:

The last assessment report predicted a fairly conservative range of 18 to 59 centimeters (7 to 23 inches). In retrospect, most oceanographers and glaciologists find that estimate too low and say it fails to adequately take into account data suggesting that mountain glaciers and Greenland's continental ice will melt more quickly than initially predicted. The new IPCC report is expected to predict that coastal waters may rise almost a meter (3.3 feet) higher than they are today -- although that level won't be reached for 100 years.

3) Predictions concerning storms will be retracted:

There has been widespread concern that increased global warming could bring about more serious storms, but current long-range forecasts don't suggest such a trend. In fact, the number of hurricanes each year is expected to drop, although peak winds in tropical storms may increase somewhat.

4) Temperature predictions made more accurate:

The scientists' simulations show that if humans continue to emit the same amount of greenhouse gases into the air, the average global temperature will rise by an additional 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit). The Earth has already grown warmer by about 1 degree Celsius over the last 100 years, making a total change of 3 degrees Celsius.

Insiders: 2013 IPCC Report Will Offer More Precise Climate Predictions - SPIEGEL ONLINE
 
I dont remember if there were threads on the actual leak but there were certainly threads on the information that came out of it, such as increased weight given to solar influence, or the walkback on climate sensitivity estimates.
 
I dont remember if there were threads on the actual leak but there were certainly threads on the information that came out of it, such as increased weight given to solar influence, or the walkback on climate sensitivity estimates.

Yes, I'm sure that's true.

Either way, I think it is an interesting overview of what the science is headed.

I can't agree on Der Spiegel's views on desertification, though. The amount of discussion in Spain about the Sahara 'jumping' the Med and destroying Spain's agriculture after this years drought (the worst in 70 years) is compelling evidence of major change.
 
I dont remember if there were threads on the actual leak but there were certainly threads on the information that came out of it, such as increased weight given to solar influence, or the walkback on climate sensitivity estimates.

Yes, I'm sure that's true.

Either way, I think it is an interesting overview of what the science is headed.

I can't agree on Der Spiegel's views on desertification, though. The amount of discussion in Spain about the Sahara 'jumping' the Med and destroying Spain's agriculture after this years drought (the worst in 70 years) is compelling evidence of major change.






No it isn't. Drought in Europe is common as dirt.




"Droughts in Europe are not rare. Whilst a severe water shortage at specific location is expected once every 50 years, scarcely 5 years go by without a shortage across at least some part of Europe and some of these events can last for several years. The table below details the location and major impacts of recent events."



http://www.geographyinthenews.rgs.o... History of Drought in Europe - Factsheet.pdf
 
Westwall -

Droughts are common - however, having the worst drought in 70 years in not particularly common.

Particularly not when the same pattern of major droughts is experienced in several countries, such as New Zealand (worst drought in 30 years), the US, India & Spain in the same year.
 
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Westwall -

Droughts are common - however, having the worst drought in 70 years in not particularly common.

Particularly not when the same pattern of major droughts is experienced in several countries, such as New Zealand (worst drought in 30 years), the US, India & Spain in the same year.







Hello..(taps radio), worst in 70 years. That means that 70 years ago IT WAS WORSE. And before that it was worse too. All when CO2 levels were "safe".
 
Westwall -

Try and focus. Of course each of the countries listed above have had worst droughts than those they experienced last year - no one suggested otherwise.

What is unusual is that severe drought would occur in so many countries during such a short span of time, and that the pattern of severe droughts seems to have become so frequent in countries like Spain, Australia and India.

Are you suggesting that we should not consider the impact of drought until countries experience the worst drought of all time, or do you think it might be sensible to consider the worst drought in 70 years to be an event worth researching?
 
Either way, I think it is an interesting overview of what the science is headed.

Science is headed away from alarmism since the claims have reached a point where they simply can't be defended. Maybe climate science will actually become a science rather than a pseudoscientific cultish religion.
 
Are you suggesting that we should not consider the impact of drought until countries experience the worst drought of all time, or do you think it might be sensible to consider the worst drought in 70 years to be an event worth researching?

No, what we shoud do is realise that drought is common and 70 years isn't even an eyeblink in geological time...and wors droughts have happened when CO2 levels were much lower...and much higher and as a result, we shouldn't wave our arms hysterically in the air like old grannies and claim that CO2 is to blame.
 
Either way, I think it is an interesting overview of what the science is headed.

Science is headed away from alarmism since the claims have reached a point where they simply can't be defended. Maybe climate science will actually become a science rather than a pseudoscientific cultish religion.

I totally agree that science is headed away from alarmism - which is why what we have seen of this report so far is anything but alarmist. If anything, it seems a little on the conservative side to me.

Do you agree with the conclusions listed in the OP?
 
No, what we shoud do is realise that drought is common and 70 years isn't even an eyeblink in geological time...and wors droughts have happened when CO2 levels were much lower...and much higher and as a result, we shouldn't wave our arms hysterically in the air like old grannies and claim that CO2 is to blame.

Just because OP can cause increased droughts does not mean ALL droughts historically are linked to high levels of atmospheric CO2.

Of course there have always been droughts - what there has not always been are historicaly significant droughts in Spain, the US, India and New Zealand during the same year.

To my mind, that is worth investigating.
 
Do you agree with the conclusions listed in the OP?

Not at all. Sea level predictions are nothing but hysteria...Sea level increase is less now than it has been for a very long time...and so long as temperature increases are linked to CO2, they will not be accurate. CO2 is not the driver...CO2 is along for the ride and nothing more.
 
Sea level increase is less now than it has been for a very long time

Really? Given we know for a solid, proven undeniable fact that 97% of the worlds glaciers are in retreat and that the Arctic is in apparently terminal decline - where do you think all of that water is going if not into the oceans?

Would you be surprised to find that two major international studies recently concluded that water levels in Finland are rising at approx 3mm per year?
 
Rising sea levels are a threat to coastal freshwater reserves

Sea levels in Finland are affected by post-glacial rebound along the coast as well as the global sea level rise [9]. Sea levels are rising as a result of thermal expansion, the melting of glaciers, and the retreat of the snowline. In addition to changes in the world's oceans, water levels in the Baltic Sea are also affected by the flow rates of rivers that discharge their waters to the Baltic Sea and changes in the seasonal distribution of inflows. Water levels in the Baltic Sea are estimated to be rising at a similar rate to those of the world's oceans. [10] There are nevertheless many uncertainties associated with these estimates [9]. Rising sea levels may damage the quality of groundwater especially in coastal areas. Higher water levels in the sea may allow saltwater to intrude into aquifer systems, damaging groundwater quality. [11] [12]

Impacts - ilmasto-opas.fi

This was written before at least one of the reports I mention above was released.

Sorry...this is only in Finnish, but one part should be comprehensible...

Valtameren alueellisen pinnannousun lisäksi Suomen rannikon vedenkorkeusmuutoksiin vaikuttavat Itämeren paikalliset ilmiöt. Maankuori kohoaa Suomessa edelleen viime jääkauden jäljiltä noin 4–10 mm vuodessa. (i.e. 4 - 10 mm per year)

http://ilmastotieto.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/ilmastonmuutos-nostaa-merenpintaa-suomenlahdella/
 
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Just because OP can cause increased droughts does not mean ALL droughts historically are linked to high levels of atmospheric CO2.

No droughts are linked to CO2 by any evidnece stronger than imagination.

Of course there have always been droughts - what there has not always been are historicaly significant droughts in Spain, the US, India and New Zealand during the same year.

Are you sure about that? In the history of the earth, drought has never been in all those places at the same time? Drought is common in the US and New Zealand...

Spain's last "historical" drought was 1990-1995...the US experienced drought during the same period as did India and New Zealand. You guys take a small bit of time and pick something out and claim that it is the end of the world without bothering to look at the broader picture. If you look far enough back in time, you find that very little that is happening in the climate today is in any way unusual, unprecedented, or disturbing.

If you want to see a chart that should cause you pause...and if you want to see something that should be troubling to you..then look at this and ask yourself if warming is really what we should be worried about.

Hos_8.png
 
No droughts are linked to CO2 by any evidnece stronger than imagination.

Droughts are linked to rising temperatures. By all means go and check that.

The IIPC position here is very conservative in not linking drought patterns to climate change directly, but I have to say that I don't think many people in countries like Spain, Australia or India would agree.

Drought is NOT particularly common New Zealand. Certainly in regions like Marlborough and Canterbury they occur quite frequently, but this years drought, which cause NZ$2 billion worth of damage, effected areas where drought is quite unusual, such as Otago and Waikato.

In the history of the earth, drought has never been in all those places at the same time?

That is simply childish and not at all what I said - what I said was that although the earth has always had severe droughts, it is unusual that countries as diverse as India, Spain, NZ and the US would all experience historically severe droughts within a single 12 month period.
 
Westwall -

Try and focus. Of course each of the countries listed above have had worst droughts than those they experienced last year - no one suggested otherwise.

What is unusual is that severe drought would occur in so many countries during such a short span of time, and that the pattern of severe droughts seems to have become so frequent in countries like Spain, Australia and India.

Are you suggesting that we should not consider the impact of drought until countries experience the worst drought of all time, or do you think it might be sensible to consider the worst drought in 70 years to be an event worth researching?





I am extrememly focused. It's you who are obfuscating (no surprise there) and waving your arms around claiming that everything is a sign of impending doom.

That is utter horseshit. It took 70 years of skyrocketing (your terms, not mine) CO2 levels to finally break your precious little record. Your meme's have failed. Time to pick another fraud that you can use to suck money from the poor.
 
Either way, I think it is an interesting overview of what the science is headed.

Science is headed away from alarmism since the claims have reached a point where they simply can't be defended. Maybe climate science will actually become a science rather than a pseudoscientific cultish religion.






That would be nice. They have a lot to offer if they would just stick to good science instead of the swill they've been producing.
 

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