Negotiating with Disaster

[editec]

Several years ago our government created an agency, with American tax dollars, to move American businesses from the United States to foreign lands where labor was much cheaper than here in the United States, and regulations were practically nonexistent. Trade agreements were passed through Congress to facilitate these business arrangements, and we were told that Americans will just have to accept a lower standard of living. Well, here we are. This is it.

True.

What most better off Americans apparently failed to realize, while they were casually dismissing those factory workers as unfortunate but the inevitable collatoral damage of the FREE TRADE policies, was that the better off Americans' economy is still linked to that of the working Americans' economy.

They forgot that we live in a consumer driven economy, and eventually if you casually dismiss the needs of the wroking class stiffs (that's most of us) that they can't pay their bills, even the upper classes suffer, as tthe working classes stop buying stuff and can no longer pay their share of local and sales taxes which pay for our state and local goverments are so dependent upon.

The only real long term benficiaries of this free trade policy are the corprorate interests which can take advantage of them.

But I am certain most of us understand that the mega-wealthy are seldom the victims of history since they are and will continue to be THE AUTHORS of most of it.

 

[Jeepers]

Few things here.. #1.. neither carter nor clinton gave Nkorea nuclear secrets.. there was a deal that clinton negotiated with the Japanese to build a reactor in nKorea but... I think we failed to fund it and it was never completed...

#2.. Why in the hell would Iran want to keep this insurgency going.. its bad for business and once the US pulls out, Iran would be the strongest power in the region... I need to see more proof than "every man thats ever worn a uniform says that its so to actually beleive this notion... what was that quote.. "fool me once, I'ma democrat, fool me twice or any number greater than one I'ma republican..." I think it went something like that...

 

[Jeepers]

Oh.. Kim actively ramped up Nuke production when Bush shut down the channel of communication with the whitehouse... It went from having a desire to have them to actually possessing them solely because of this administration....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh.. Kim actively ramped up Nuke production when Bush shut down the channel of communication with the whitehouse... It went from having a desire to have them to actually possessing them solely because of this administration....

Are you fucking HIGH? It takes YEARS even with help to develop and deploy a nuclear weapon. They did not suddenly start researching it in 2001 and gain it by what 2004? That dog don't hunt and that you claim it is hilarious.

WE provided them the materials to build the facilities, we provided them fuel and technology. AND we did NO monitoring at all. Yup Bush is to blame for years of neglect and help by Clinton. You are pathetic.

 

[Gunny]

You and jreeves are assuming that the "obvious" is Iran is attempting to, or wants to attempt to, build nukes to destory the world, or at least the US and Israel.

That's not obvious, it's just a hunch you have. You match often distorted, often out of context, vague rhetoric, with their desires for nuclear power, and assume a conclusion of a nation that wants to destroy humanity. I always leave open the possibility that they TOO, feel a need to posture to the world so they can maintain some kind of relevance. If they open their closet up to the world and show that they basically have NOTHING, if that's the case, they are automatically weak and vulnerable to outside aggression. In this nuclear world, the possession of nuclear arms is just as much a deterrent as it is a weapon. I tend to doubt they have nukes, but if I was them, I'd rather my enemies THINK I do, instead of KNOW that I DON'T. Especially since two countries that have nukes and enough firepower to ACTUALLY destory the world, show a strong desire to see you destroyed.

I understand your desire to keep tabs on Iran. I concede that it's necessary. But I see the same war drums being pounded during the lead-up to Iraq. It's only been a couple years, it's not like we shuold have all forgotten that already. The same patterns are emerging in the MSM over the last year or so.

It worries me what a hasty rush to another war could do to this country, and the global balance, or at least whatever semblance of balance is left these days.

Iran is in no way the last frontier in this pre-emptive doctrine we have taken up since 9/11. If we are to finish what we started, we'll be at war until the end of time trying to keep our boot firmly pressed into the throat of the Islamic community. I can count at least 5 more countries, probably more, that we would need to take some kind of major military action in to be able to say we are making a serious effort at controlling terrorism and protecting the dollar. This is the same thing the Romans did. If you really study history, and apply it to current events, the resemblance between us and the Romans is astounding.

There's just no foreseeable way to continue this empire on the track we are on, without eventually collapsing in more than one way.

You assume Ron Paul would be a lame duck president without any ability to accomplish his goals, but as CIC he would be able to tone down the empire dramatically in his first 24 hours. But this isn't about Ron Paul. I can just only hope that somehow we manage to skate by for another 50-60 years so I can watch my kids grow up in a normal flourishing society before I die. It's why I actively involve myself in politics in my community and beyond, instead of living the apathetic life I used to live when I was young, dumb, and full of cum.

The future worries me, and some small, militarily-challenged country in the middle of the desert certainly isn't the be-all-end-all of ANYTHING.

Your assumption is incorrect. I'm not distorting anything, nor have I posted anything out of context.

The government of Iran is in fact a gaggle of Islamic fundamnetalists. The government of Iran supports Hezbollah, does it not? Is not Hezbollah a terrorist organization that uses suicide bombings in an attempt to terrorize others into bending to their will?

That "do it my way or I'll blow up the whole game and you and me along with it" mentality is one of those aforementioned blatantly obvious as the sky facts.

No, I cannot say for certain that Iran will actually do that. However, Iran's past and present tactics can be used as an indicator of probabilities. If the government of Iran supports a terrorist organization that uses suicide as a tactic, then the government of Iran at some level obviously justifies the use of said tactic.

I cannot guarantee the drunk next door is going to be drunk tonight but I'm thinking it's a lot safer to NOT hand him the keys to my truck rather than do so and hope he behaves.

 

[Jeepers]

Are you fucking HIGH? It takes YEARS even with help to develop and deploy a nuclear weapon. They did not suddenly start researching it in 2001 and gain it by what 2004? That dog don't hunt and that you claim it is hilarious.

WE provided them the materials to build the facilities, we provided them fuel and technology. AND we did NO monitoring at all. Yup Bush is to blame for years of neglect and help by Clinton. You are pathetic.

OK nancy.. I aint gonna beleive it cause you is sayin it... If my memory is correct, Nk was one of the AQ Kahn customers.. Bill actually started down the road of building an inoquous reactor facility with the Japanese. Kim ramped his program up after Bush told him to go fuck himself...

 

[jreeves]

You and jreeves are assuming that the "obvious" is Iran is attempting to, or wants to attempt to, build nukes to destory the world, or at least the US and Israel.

That's not obvious, it's just a hunch you have. You match often distorted, often out of context, vague rhetoric, with their desires for nuclear power, and assume a conclusion of a nation that wants to destroy humanity. I always leave open the possibility that they TOO, feel a need to posture to the world so they can maintain some kind of relevance. If they open their closet up to the world and show that they basically have NOTHING, if that's the case, they are automatically weak and vulnerable to outside aggression. In this nuclear world, the possession of nuclear arms is just as much a deterrent as it is a weapon. I tend to doubt they have nukes, but if I was them, I'd rather my enemies THINK I do, instead of KNOW that I DON'T. Especially since two countries that have nukes and enough firepower to ACTUALLY destory the world, show a strong desire to see you destroyed.

I understand your desire to keep tabs on Iran. I concede that it's necessary. But I see the same war drums being pounded during the lead-up to Iraq. It's only been a couple years, it's not like we shuold have all forgotten that already. The same patterns are emerging in the MSM over the last year or so.

It worries me what a hasty rush to another war could do to this country, and the global balance, or at least whatever semblance of balance is left these days.

Iran is in no way the last frontier in this pre-emptive doctrine we have taken up since 9/11. If we are to finish what we started, we'll be at war until the end of time trying to keep our boot firmly pressed into the throat of the Islamic community. I can count at least 5 more countries, probably more, that we would need to take some kind of major military action in to be able to say we are making a serious effort at controlling terrorism and protecting the dollar. This is the same thing the Romans did. If you really study history, and apply it to current events, the resemblance between us and the Romans is astounding.

There's just no foreseeable way to continue this empire on the track we are on, without eventually collapsing in more than one way.

You assume Ron Paul would be a lame duck president without any ability to accomplish his goals, but as CIC he would be able to tone down the empire dramatically in his first 24 hours. But this isn't about Ron Paul. I can just only hope that somehow we manage to skate by for another 50-60 years so I can watch my kids grow up in a normal flourishing society before I die. It's why I actively involve myself in politics in my community and beyond, instead of living the apathetic life I used to live when I was young, dumb, and full of cum.

The future worries me, and some small, militarily-challenged country in the middle of the desert certainly isn't the be-all-end-all of ANYTHING.

Nope no nuclear program here.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/world/middleeast/25cnd-iran.html
Iran's supreme leader said today in a meeting with the Sudanese president that Iran was ready to share its nuclear technology with other countries.

"Iran's nuclear capability is one example of various scientific capabilities in the country. The Islamic Republic of Iran is prepared to transfer the experience, knowledge and technology of its scientists," said the supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to President Omar al-Bashir of Sudan, IRNA news agency reported.

Mr. Khamenei's comments to the leader of Sudan, one of the most unstable countries in Africa, came a few days ahead of the Friday deadline by the United Nations Security Council for Iran to suspend its sensitive uranium enrichment activities.

At a conference on its nuclear program in Tehran today, senior officials rejected the demand and vowed that Iran will continue its enrichment activities.

 

[Paulie]

Nope no nuclear program here.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/world/middleeast/25cnd-iran.html
Iran's supreme leader said today in a meeting with the Sudanese president that Iran was ready to share its nuclear technology with other countries.

"Iran's nuclear capability is one example of various scientific capabilities in the country. The Islamic Republic of Iran is prepared to transfer the experience, knowledge and technology of its scientists," said the supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to President Omar al-Bashir of Sudan, IRNA news agency reported.

Mr. Khamenei's comments to the leader of Sudan, one of the most unstable countries in Africa, came a few days ahead of the Friday deadline by the United Nations Security Council for Iran to suspend its sensitive uranium enrichment activities.

At a conference on its nuclear program in Tehran today, senior officials rejected the demand and vowed that Iran will continue its enrichment activities.

Funny how a NY Times article is ok for you if it states what you WANT it to state. But please excuse me if I brush aside an article from the publication responsible for initially setting the tone for Iraq part Deux.

Not to mention, I'm not sure how that proves they are building weapons.

Why don't you explain to us why Iran, a sovereign nation, has no right to pursue nuclear technology, especially considering how beneficial it can be energy-wise.

You don't want your government telling you how to live, and rightfully so...but it's ok for your government to tell Iranians how THEY should live.

 

[jreeves]

Funny how a NY Times article is ok for you if it states what you WANT it to state. But please excuse me if I brush aside an article from the publication responsible for initially setting the tone for Iraq part Deux.

Not to mention, I'm not sure how that proves they are building weapons.

Why don't you explain to us why Iran, a sovereign nation, has no right to pursue nuclear technology, especially considering how beneficial it can be energy-wise.

You don't want your government telling you how to live, and rightfully so...but it's ok for your government to tell Iranians how THEY should live.

Iran is floating in oil but they want to develop a nuclear program for peaceful purposes. Then wants to take that technology and spread it throughout the world. The liberalistic times quotes the Iranian America hater-in-chief. No its prudent to keep nuclear weapons away from a man that has said that he wants to see America burn and readily refers to us as the Infidel. Would you like similar articles from other sources that aren't so right-wing?

 

[AllieBaba]

And we are hurting for oil, but refuse to drill for our own. We'd rather use our own food supply for energy and negotiate with mid-Eastern terrorist swine.

The world is a funny place.