NEA: Obama looks for "New Ways" to "Punish" Teachers...

[Immanuel]

Bill Clinton didn't send his daughter to public schools, but Mike Huckabee did. WTH is wrong with these Democrats? Don't they believe in public education?

Of course they do. For other people's children.

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Florida just passed a law holding teachers accountable for student's grades. So you know what is going to happen to the kids that are struggling and not doing well in school?

Those kids are going to be pushed off into the corners of school that doesn't give a shit and be "left behind". Any parents that have students with learning disabilities may as well not send their kids to school because there are not going to be any teachers that want them in their classrooms.

Immie

Yes because there aren't learning disability programs in public schools...even my relatively poor high school had one.

Under this new program there won't be any teachers willing to teach them.

And not every student with a learning disability gets into these "special" programs. The ones who don't will be the ones that suffer.

Immie

 

[bodecea]

This fucking shit is fucking bullshit if you fucking ask me, motherfucker!

Imagine how much it would suck to know that you, as a teacher, are trying to do everything possible to teach your students and to get them interested in learning, but that the kids are only interested in texting, sexting, fucking, and drugs, and that their parents couldn't care less about what they do...and because you are spending day in and day out babysitting these fucking piece of shit teen rejects who fail the standardized tests miserably, you end up losing your job.

Fuck it ALL!!!

I come from a family (both sides) of teachers....they all agree that it stops here. The next generation is being advised to not get into teaching. It is not worth it anymore. The pay was always bad, but to literally be spit on by kids, parents, etc. Let those WalMart greeters the Right always infers would be better at it take over teaching. Or strongly encourage parents to homeschool. We all know they are the biggest influence on their child's education anyways.

 

[chanel]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

 

[Immanuel]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

That is not at all what I am saying and please do not mis-understand me. I am saying that if they (the state) are going to base your pay upon the success of your students then there will be an awful lot of teachers who do not want to teach special needs children because they will be penalized even more by this law.

The FCAT in Florida was billed here as a way to grade the schools. Guess what! It does no such thing. Instead of grading the schools it is used to penalize the students who do not succeed on the tests.

I have two daughters that were diagnosed with learning disabilities. Both were given waivers when it came to the FCAT, but there are a lot of children who don't pass and they are the ones that suffer, not the schools.

Immie

 

[hyakku]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

Ummm...no, that's why they have LEARNING disabilities. Now if they have something like ADD or something, then sorry mate, but if they aren't wild and crazy kids, you're not doing something right. It's the kids or the teachers, and you seem to imply that your kids aren't crazy, so maybe....


Like I said, I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I've been hearing public school teachers say this for YEARS. And luckly enough, I can say that besides my Spanish, Literary, and some basic U.S. historical skills, that yes, I did teach myself through high school, because a majority of my other teachers were woefully inadequate or abysmal, even in our honors classes with all good kids.

In older schools there's a bureaucracy of older teachers that suffer a disconnect from the current generation that's geared towards learning in snippets, bite sizes, and ways that require innovative, fresh thinking. This isn't to suggest older teachers can't be good (as I said, both of my English / Lit professors were incredible, and also old ), but rather that it's simply easier for a younger teacher to innovate and connect on another level.


Or yea, we could just let all those kids get homeschooled, but judging by this board, and the general asshatery I see on television, that can't assure us to good of a future.

 

[Samson]

There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

This isn't to suggest older teachers can't be good (as I said, both of my English / Lit professors were incredible, and also old ), but rather that it's simply easier for a younger teacher to innovate and connect on another level.

Naturally, its easier for a teacher to sympathise with students when they are in the same generation. This is, of course, a double edged sword, because "connecting on another level" can have so many connotations......some of which actually diminish what little authority the teachers has.

More to the point, as chanel says, it is a mentally, and physically exausting job: Not as easy to do in your mid-40's as your mid-20's. And, there's not much financial incentive after 10 years of teaching (salaries almost flatten out after 5 years). The system encourages the smart, competant, and ambitious to LEAVE.

So, if you find a teacher, who's still alive and well after 20 years on the job, you're looking at a relatively rare person. Most are mentally and/or physically broken, or leave teaching for another career (often raising their own kids) after 5 years (usually less), or they move into cushy administrative jobs (writing grant applications, planning curriculum, putting on dog-and-pony shows), or they become coaches.

 

[chanel]

My students learn something new every day - that they are there. I will not be responsible for the education of kids that have better things to do. That's about 50 percent. Truancy laws are rarely enforced and there are no laws regarding those over 18.

There are great young teachers and not so great young ones. Horrific attendance rates for the 20 somethings at my job.

Pushing out older teachers? Yeah that will encourage the best and brightest - not.

 

[Samson]

Pushing out older teachers? Yeah that will encourage the best and brightest - not.

Regardless, that's what the system encourages, and has encouraged for the past 50 years (since it became socially acceptable for a 20 yo woman to work outside the home). NCLB has nothing to do with the fact that 20 yos have many choices other than teaching, and most of these offer more money as they become more experienced.

Teaching, on the other hand, offers very little more money after 5 years compared to 15 years.

 

[The Rabbi]

NEA Propaganda....

They have been protecting underperforming schools and teachers for years

Its about time for some Hopey Changey

And they have been doing it with Obama's help. The teachers' unions are among Obama's biggest supporters. In the article they continue to flex their considerable muscles to get even more.
Any idea that Obama is running counter to the teachers' unions is a joke. Interestingly the knee jerk Obama supporters here are spouting traditional Republican rhetoric. If it were Bush they would be screaming that he was trying to make illiterates out of our kids.

 

[The Rabbi]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

Teachers are overpaid. Sorry.
Show me another job that someone with a BA can do and still get full medical and retirement benefits with guaranteed months of vacation from the get go.
What protects them are the unions and absurd "teaching credentials".

 

[Samson]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

Teachers are overpaid. Sorry.
Show me another job that someone with a BA can do and still get full medical and retirement benefits with guaranteed months of vacation from the get go.
What protects them are the unions and absurd "teaching credentials".

How much do you think they should be paid?

 

[bodecea]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

Teachers are overpaid. Sorry.
Show me another job that someone with a BA can do and still get full medical and retirement benefits with guaranteed months of vacation from the get go.
What protects them are the unions and absurd "teaching credentials".

First of all, teachers need 5 years to teach, not just a BA...

Not all teachers get full benefits, and usually not all offered until tenure which is usually 2 years or more.

And those months of vacation are NON-PAID.

And not all states allow unions. My brother teaches in NC and they are not allowed to have unions there.

And what's absurd about "teaching credentials"....please explain that comment.

 

[xsited1]

This fucking shit is fucking bullshit if you fucking ask me, motherfucker!

Imagine how much it would suck to know that you, as a teacher, are trying to do everything possible to teach your students and to get them interested in learning, but that the kids are only interested in texting, sexting, fucking, and drugs, and that their parents couldn't care less about what they do...and because you are spending day in and day out babysitting these fucking piece of shit teen rejects who fail the standardized tests miserably, you end up losing your job.

Fuck it ALL!!!

I come from a family (both sides) of teachers....they all agree that it stops here. The next generation is being advised to not get into teaching. It is not worth it anymore. The pay was always bad, but to literally be spit on by kids, parents, etc. Let those WalMart greeters the Right always infers would be better at it take over teaching. Or strongly encourage parents to homeschool. We all know they are the biggest influence on their child's education anyways.

Let's face it, the Liberals have destroyed public education. However, the next generation WILL be advised to get into teaching, as long as it's in private education. And guess what's next? Health care. We're about to have a major shortage after the passage of Obamacare, and it will get worse each year. But I blame the GOP for allowing the Liberals to take over. They were our last line of defense and they dropped the ball. Shame on them.

 

[The Rabbi]

I encourage anyone who believes that teachers are overpaid to spend one day observing their local high school. Most likely they will see amazing students interacting with amazing teachers. And they will see and hear the absolute disrespect of other students. There are great teachers and not so great ones, but if anyone thinks its an "easy job" - try it. Hell even for just one hour.

If I had a dollar for every peron who has said to me "I could never do what you do" I could retire tomorrow. Now half the country thinks they could do a better job. Go for it people.

Oh and EZ and I both teach special needs. None of our students can pass the test. That's why they are in a different program. I guess we should get paid minimum wage eh?

Teachers are overpaid. Sorry.
Show me another job that someone with a BA can do and still get full medical and retirement benefits with guaranteed months of vacation from the get go.
What protects them are the unions and absurd "teaching credentials".

How much do you think they should be paid?

Whatever the market says.
First do away with teachers' unions. Then do away with requirements for "teaching certificates". Allow principles to hire and fire teachers with some oversight. Then let them negotiate salaries and benefits with the teachers themselves.
And do away with the ridiculous tenure system. What a sham.

 

[Samson]

Teachers are overpaid. Sorry.
Show me another job that someone with a BA can do and still get full medical and retirement benefits with guaranteed months of vacation from the get go.
What protects them are the unions and absurd "teaching credentials".

How much do you think they should be paid?

Whatever the market says.
First do away with teachers' unions. Then do away with requirements for "teaching certificates". Allow principles to hire and fire teachers with some oversight. Then let them negotiate salaries and benefits with the teachers themselves.
And do away with the ridiculous tenure system. What a sham.

You don't think the market already "says" what they should be paid?

Why?

 

[Samson]

This fucking shit is fucking bullshit if you fucking ask me, motherfucker!

Imagine how much it would suck to know that you, as a teacher, are trying to do everything possible to teach your students and to get them interested in learning, but that the kids are only interested in texting, sexting, fucking, and drugs, and that their parents couldn't care less about what they do...and because you are spending day in and day out babysitting these fucking piece of shit teen rejects who fail the standardized tests miserably, you end up losing your job.

Fuck it ALL!!!

I come from a family (both sides) of teachers....they all agree that it stops here. The next generation is being advised to not get into teaching. It is not worth it anymore. The pay was always bad, but to literally be spit on by kids, parents, etc. Let those WalMart greeters the Right always infers would be better at it take over teaching. Or strongly encourage parents to homeschool. We all know they are the biggest influence on their child's education anyways.

Let's face it, the Liberals have destroyed public education. However, the next generation WILL be advised to get into teaching, as long as it's in private education. And guess what's next? Health care. We're about to have a major shortage after the passage of Obamacare, and it will get worse each year. But I blame the GOP for allowing the Liberals to take over. They were our last line of defense and they dropped the ball. Shame on them.

"Destroyed Public Education???"



They still build public schools, ya know.

 

[Samson]

First of all, teachers need 5 years to teach, not just a BA...

Not all teachers get full benefits, and usually not all offered until tenure which is usually 2 years or more.

And those months of vacation are NON-PAID.

And not all states allow unions. My brother teaches in NC and they are not allowed to have unions there.

And what's absurd about "teaching credentials"....please explain that comment.

"First of all, teachers need 5 years to teach, not just a BA..."






WTF does that mean

Like NC, Texas doesn't have Teacher Unions either.

 

[The Rabbi]

How much do you think they should be paid?

Whatever the market says.
First do away with teachers' unions. Then do away with requirements for "teaching certificates". Allow principles to hire and fire teachers with some oversight. Then let them negotiate salaries and benefits with the teachers themselves.
And do away with the ridiculous tenure system. What a sham.

You don't think the market already "says" what they should be paid?

Why?

Because employment is controlled by the necessity of mickey mouse teaching certificates and teachers' unions. That constitutes an economic cartel, which artificially inflates prices, in this case wages.

The proof is in looking at private schools, which are not bound to hire only those with certificates or union membership. Wages are much lower there and quality is much higher.

 

[Samson]

Whatever the market says.
First do away with teachers' unions. Then do away with requirements for "teaching certificates". Allow principles to hire and fire teachers with some oversight. Then let them negotiate salaries and benefits with the teachers themselves.
And do away with the ridiculous tenure system. What a sham.

You don't think the market already "says" what they should be paid?

Why?

Because employment is controlled by the necessity of mickey mouse teaching certificates and teachers' unions. That constitutes an economic cartel, which artificially inflates prices, in this case wages.

The proof is in looking at private schools, which are not bound to hire only those with certificates or union membership. Wages are much lower there and quality is much higher.

We've already established that teacher unions are not a factor in every state, yet there are public schools in Texas and NC. Keep beating that horse, but I'll not redress it.

I will conceed, even though you have no proof, that teachers in private schools make less than teachers in public schools. But this doesn't really support the argument that public school teachers are paid too much, rather, it supports the arguement that private school teachers are paid too little.

Quality is MUCH HIGHER in private schools: Probably a subject for another thread, but frankly I don't see how you could prove this since there's no yardstick that measures private education. i will conceed that SOME private schools are probably better than SOME public schools, but then, you could just as easily compare different public schools on this basis.

 

[The Rabbi]

You don't think the market already "says" what they should be paid?

Why?

Because employment is controlled by the necessity of mickey mouse teaching certificates and teachers' unions. That constitutes an economic cartel, which artificially inflates prices, in this case wages.

The proof is in looking at private schools, which are not bound to hire only those with certificates or union membership. Wages are much lower there and quality is much higher.

We've already established that teacher unions are not a factor in every state, yet there are public schools in Texas and NC. Keep beating that horse, but I'll not redress it.

I will conceed, even though you have no proof, that teachers in private schools make less than teachers in public schools. But this doesn't really support the argument that public school teachers are paid too much, rather, it supports the arguement that private school teachers are paid too little.

Quality is MUCH HIGHER in private schools: Probably a subject for another thread, but frankly I don't see how you could prove this since there's no yardstick that measures private education. i will conceed that SOME private schools are probably better than SOME public schools, but then, you could just as easily compare different public schools on this basis.

Go ahead and cherry pick.
Do TX and NC not require teaching certificates for employment in public schools?
How do you explain the fact that teachers in private schools, on your own admission, are both better and paid less? That would seem to be a contradiction, right? Is not the only difference between them either union membership or teaching credential required or both?