Nazism caused by Secularism

[Evangelical]

This has political ramifications for the views of the future of the GOP and the Christians in the US. The argument here is very interesting between Pat Buchannan and the editor of Newsweek.

Media Matters - After Buchanan suggests secularism leads to Nazism, Newsweek's Meacham agrees that there's a "great danger"

 

[jillian]

Except that Hitler used Christianity to gather his people and give them"common cause".

Bit simplistic way of synopsizing the discussion. I'm surprised at Media Matters.

 

[Evangelical]

Except that Hitler used Christianity to gather his people and give them"common cause".

Bit simplistic way of synopsizing the discussion. I'm surprised at Media Matters.

Well not quite. Hitler used the "German Christians" who were a very weird group of persons sort of how Episcopalians call themselves Christians but don't follow anything Jesus said to do.

Eventually Hitler turned on the German Christians, and Hitler encouraged the mass exodus of Germans from the church called the Kirkenaustritt.

 

[José]

Yup...

We all know the "secular" roots of European anti-semitism that culminated in Nazi Germany's concentration camps...

All those damned European secularists have spent the last 2000 years foaming at the mouth about the tragic fate of a certain jewish carpenter...

And show me any real correlation between secularism/theocracy and ultra-nationalism (german or any other).

Are iranians less nationalistic now that they live under a shiite theocracy?

What about that beacon of secularism, Scandinavia? I can't remember any recent ultra-nationalist parade in Sweden or Norway...

You're totally delusional, Evangelical... One of the reasons behind Europe's secularisation was all those european religious wars (with or without an underlying economic reason. We can argue till kingdom come about their real causes, but no one can deny the fact that religion provided at least the pretext).

 

[Evangelical]

It could not have been without the secularization of Germany after WW1 that Nazism could have pushed their anti-Christian agendas such as their Cathedral of Light which was wholly pagan or their death cult...which I'm sure you know nothing about because you don't actually know anything about Nazism.

 

[strollingbones]

hilter had a great interest in the occult there is no denying that....but i do note the remark....

Episcopalians call themselves Christians but don't follow anything Jesus said to do.

so do tell me there...since you are just dying to witness to us all...who is the one true god and the one true religion and the one true interpetation of the bible...i am sure you have these answers at your fingertips.

 

[Evangelical]

hilter had a great interest in the occult there is no denying that....but i do note the remark....

Episcopalians call themselves Christians but don't follow anything Jesus said to do.

so do tell me there...since you are just dying to witness to us all...who is the one true god and the one true religion and the one true interpetation of the bible...i am sure you have these answers at your fingertips.

When the Bible says don't put women as pastors or priests, and don't allow sexual immorality, and your church allows BOTH, you're far from God.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Evangelical
It could not have been without the secularization of Germany after WW1 that Nazism could have pushed their anti-Christian agendas such as their Cathedral of Light which was wholly pagan or their death cult...which I'm sure you know nothing about because you don't actually know anything about Nazism.

A pagan state is a religious state, a confessional state!!

A pagan state is the exact opposite of a secular state!!

 

[José]

Holy shit!!

One has to have the patience of a buddhist monk to deal with all these online incarnations of Richard the Lionheart and the Knights of the Round Table!!

 

[Evangelical]

Originally posted by Evangelical
It could not have been without the secularization of Germany after WW1 that Nazism could have pushed their anti-Christian agendas such as their Cathedral of Light which was wholly pagan or their death cult...which I'm sure you know nothing about because you don't actually know anything about Nazism.

A pagan state is a religious state, a confessional state!!

A pagan state is the exact opposite of a secular state!!

Actually secularism and paganism are the exact same thing.

Both worship creation, and if you look at ancient Pagans most of their "religion" was ritualizing the mundane, such as drinking, or sex, or harvest, etc.

They simply made into idolatry the things we do as humans.

What more idolatrous is there than a secular society?

 

[Dr Grump]

When the Bible says don't put women as pastors or priests, and don't allow sexual immorality, and your church allows BOTH, you're far from God.

I think you are far from a certain INTERPRETATION of what the Christian God supposedly said. Unfortunately the bible was written by men....

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Originally posted by Evangelical
It could not have been without the secularization of Germany after WW1 that Nazism could have pushed their anti-Christian agendas such as their Cathedral of Light which was wholly pagan or their death cult...which I'm sure you know nothing about because you don't actually know anything about Nazism.

A pagan state is a religious state, a confessional state!!

A pagan state is the exact opposite of a secular state!!

Actually secularism and paganism are the exact same thing.

You can't be serious. Paganism is a form of polytheism, while secularism is about limiting religious influence in the public sphere - basically leaving the supernatural at the door. I wouldn't say these terms are mutually exclusive, e.g. if you had pagans who believed in keeping their beliefs out of government but rather adopted a private, personal spirituality, but they are not even remotely close to the same thing.

Both worship creation, and if you look at ancient Pagans most of their "religion" was ritualizing the mundane, such as drinking, or sex, or harvest, etc.

Secularism isn't about worshipping anything. I know you may not be able to grasp it, but atheists do not necessarily worship anything at all. Worshipping any person, thing, or activity is a waste of time. If God existed, it would be irrational that he/she ask to be worshipped because real greatness is self-evident.

They simply made into idolatry the things we do as humans.

What more idolatrous is there than a secular society?

Idolatry does not exist, as far as atheists are concerned. Worshipping a gold bull is as stupid as worshipping an ineffable god. Believing that there is no afterlife is not the same as worshipping the mundane, though at least the mundane actually exists.

hilter had a great interest in the occult there is no denying that....but i do note the remark....

Episcopalians call themselves Christians but don't follow anything Jesus said to do.

so do tell me there...since you are just dying to witness to us all...who is the one true god and the one true religion and the one true interpetation of the bible...i am sure you have these answers at your fingertips.

When the Bible says don't put women as pastors or priests, and don't allow sexual immorality, and your church allows BOTH, you're far from God.

God probably does not exist, but I have no idea why you put more stock in what Paul said than Jesus. Jesus may have suffered from NPD, but Paul was a fucking douchebag and it amazes me to no end that any modern, rational person can read his words and remain a Christian.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When the Bible says don't put women as pastors or priests, and don't allow sexual immorality, and your church allows BOTH, you're far from God.

I think you are far from a certain INTERPRETATION of what the Christian God supposedly said. Unfortunately the bible was written by men....

Divinely INSPIRED by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bfgrn]

This has political ramifications for the views of the future of the GOP and the Christians in the US. The argument here is very interesting between Pat Buchannan and the editor of Newsweek.

Media Matters - After Buchanan suggests secularism leads to Nazism, Newsweek's Meacham agrees that there's a "great danger"

Ironic...the group that's closest to fascism is the evangelical religious right...


When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion.
Abraham Lincoln

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone.
Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams, 11 January 1817

 

[editec]

Hitler would have LOST the election had he not gotten the support of the GERMAN CATHOLIC church.

Odd that Pat Buchanan forget that.

Or...maybe not.

 

[KittenKoder]

Originally posted by Evangelical
It could not have been without the secularization of Germany after WW1 that Nazism could have pushed their anti-Christian agendas such as their Cathedral of Light which was wholly pagan or their death cult...which I'm sure you know nothing about because you don't actually know anything about Nazism.

A pagan state is a religious state, a confessional state!!

A pagan state is the exact opposite of a secular state!!

Actually secularism and paganism are the exact same thing.

Both worship creation, and if you look at ancient Pagans most of their "religion" was ritualizing the mundane, such as drinking, or sex, or harvest, etc.

They simply made into idolatry the things we do as humans.

What more idolatrous is there than a secular society?

You know too little of all the other religions to even go there.

 

[Iriemon]

Martin Luther was the founder of the protestant movement and the Lutheran church, the largest church in Germany.

Google "Luther jews" and see the real source of the nazi's religious bigotry against the jews and the inspiration for their actions.

 

[midcan5]

Anyone who thinks secularism - whatever that is in their minds - was a cause of Nazi Germany should not be a commentator on anything but 'Fox pseudo news.' If there is one element that can be assigned blame it would be the economic situation. Look at the many wackos out in the streets today in this country over the economic downturn, now add poverty, hunger, depression, and hopelessness and you get the seeds for Hitler.

"The most ominous development after World War I and one of the primary causes of World War II was the rise of Adolph Hitler in Germany. The Treaty of Versailles helped lead to this in five ways. First, there was the common belief that Germany had been betrayed, since the Armistice had been signed before allied troops had reached German soil. Germans, looking for scapegoats, blamed bankers, Catholics, and especially the Jews. Second, the Treaty of Versailles angered the German people and destabilized Germany both economically and politically. Third, the Weimar Republic, which succeeded the Kaiser’s monarchy, was moderate, but weak, and thus let matters get out of hand. Fourth, the German economy's over-dependence on American loans caused it to collapse with the Stock Market Crash in 1929. Finally, the Depression, especially with the renewed raising of tariffs, created tense international relations. All these provided the conditions for Hitler to seize power."

FC134: Adolf Hitler and the Rise of Nazism in Germany (1919-39) - The Flow of History

The Rise Of Nazism

 

[José]

Originally posted by Evangelical
Actually secularism and paganism are the exact same thing.

Both worship creation, and if you look at ancient Pagans most of their "religion" was ritualizing the mundane, such as drinking, or sex, or harvest, etc.

They simply made into idolatry the things we do as humans.

What more idolatrous is there than a secular society?

No, Evangelical.

Secularism is the political idea that gives millions of individuals around the world the freedom to be theocrats like yourself.

Theocracy is the political idea that, from ancient human societies to "modern" Saudi Arabia, has opressed, persecuted and killed millions of secularists like myself.

 

[editec]

I was raised and confirmed in the Lutheran Church.

It was so anti-anti-Semitism you'd think it was run by Rabbis.

Martin Luther was not exactly sane, ya' know?

Oh, you didn't know that?

Well, they made no secret of it in my church.

You know he thought he was plagued by demons, right?

Luther wasn't exactly a liberal.

He was very much a reactionary EXCEPT as it regarded the Catholic Church.

Did he hate Jews? Wouldn't surprise me. Most Catholics and Protestants did back then. (exception? Moravians)

ML completely supported the system of aristos which kept the peasants down, supported killing those peasants who revolted against that vile system, too.

He was a former Catholic Priest, after all. He wasn't exactly an advanced thinker when it came to how society was suspposed to work.

His so called reformation was entirely religious and based on his objections to the Catholic Papacy, and in no way shape or form that I am aware of remotely liberal.

All that being said, Hitler's system has nothing to do with christianity..Christianity, perhaps, but christianity, definitely not.

Hitler considered christianity the philosophy of slaves.

He worked with Formal Churches if he could.

He cut a deal with the RC church of Germany to get their support in his election, and I would not be at all surprised to hear he cut deals with various Luthern Churches, either.