Native Americans Criticize Bush's Silence

[Gem]

ItsTheTruth Wrote:

Out of context???!!!! Hardly. The actual news article was headlined: "Native Americans Criticize Bush's Silence".

Did the paragpahs I posted convey a different impression? Hardly. Bush in fact remained publicly silent on this matter until yesterday!

I removed 11 paragraphs in order to stay within the suggested 4 paragaph limit. And none of the 11 removed paragraphs indicated that Bush had actually spoken out on this matter. That's because he didn't. So I don't think the posting was deceptive at all, especially since everyone on the board can, and apparently did, click on the link to read the entire article.

Now if I really wanted to "deceive people" I could used the tried and proven method used by so many posters. I could have submitted an "original" post, without links, selectively quoting an American Indian leader condeming Bush for not speaking out publicly, and left it at that. Now that's how you can spin a news article. Just quote parts of it without links to the actual article!

I noticed that method is frequently practiced on internet discussion boards, but I don't do that because such a method can in fact be deceptive.

And I might add that I have noticed other posters carefully editing their news stories in a simliar fashion. However, that's OK if they are conservatives and not liberals.

So why do some conservatives and right-wingers whine and cry so much about nothing? I guess they just find it difficult, if not impossible, to deal with a different point of view and they lack debating skills plus hard facts to defend their positions. Does anyone have a more reasonable explanation for their constant whining? I thought they were suppose to be tough.

I just had to address this. There were so many ridiculously stupid comments in it I felt it would be remiss of me to let it go.

ItsTheTruth, the article title is not the point. The point is, once you read the article, you discovered that the Bush Administration had indeed responded to the shooting, in a completely appropriate way. The article itself answered its own question: Why hasn't Bush responded? With an answer: Oh yeah, he did!

Your tirade about conservatives not appreciating other points of view is truly remarkable in the context of this thread because you are guilty of exactly what you are accussing conservatives of doing. You took an article which clearly discussed both sides of an issue...and completely disregarded the side that did not jive with your world view! And then you got angry and insulting when people pointed out that you had made a whole thread dedicated to bashing Bush for "ignoring" the Native American crisis...when the very article you pointed to disproved your entire point.

No one here was threatened by this article, nor are they threatened by you or your ideas...quite frankly, as this thread demonstrates, you haven't expressed any idea clearly or rationally enough to be taken seriously.

Conservatives and Libertarians and Right-Leaning Democrats and Others (there are more than just conservatives here, by the way) do not demand that everyone agree with them...just that they make sense and are honest about the information when they disagree. Now, I'll agree wholeheartedly that there are Conservatives here, and others, who are idiots who can't put a sentence together without spitting out insults and belittling people who disagree with them...but they get taken about as seriously as you do....so I wouldnt get too upset about them.

I've called several people out for misusing information, and I've seen OCA and others take several people (on both sides of the political spectrum) to task for linking incorrectly. But heres the thing, no one is stating that you linked incorrectly here, ItsTheTruth...just that you picked and choose in an obviously skewed and biased manner.

You posted an article that expressed several Native Americans views about how Bush was handling a situation and then discussed how Bush has handled the situation. However, you chose to only include the side that was negative for Bush...rather than doing what would have made this thread worthwhile....posting both sides and asking for a debate on whether or not Bush's response was adequate or appropriate, or even posting Bush's response and stating that you feel it wasn't enough...both of these, or something similar, would have gotten you a lively debate on whether or not Bush was doing the right thing in this situation.

But that obviously wasn't your intention...it was just to show that Bush wasn't doing anything about the crisis (which was a lie) because of his, "infrequent visits to the White House" (another lie). Your original thread and the subsequent retorts have demonstrated quite clearly that this, and not a measured, reasonable conversation regarding Bush's response to this matter, was what you were aiming for when you posted this thread. So please don't act surprised when you get a measured, reasonable conversation about your obvious agenda, rather than the topic you posted on (which, by the way, several people addressed WHILE discussing your posting style).

So in the sake of moving forward I'll ask you...whats the point? Did you really want to exchange ideas with people who hold an opinion different than your own? Or were you just excited to post another article that might be read as yet another Bush bash?

If we are all wrong, if you didn't post the article as just another slam to Bush and got caught because the article (although the title was misleading, THERES A SHOCK) wasn't a slam to Bush...then what exactly were you trying to start a conversation about by only showing one side of an article that expresses both sides of the debate? here's you chance to ask the question and forward the debate...

What did you hope to discuss regarding this article?

 

[Annie]

Gem, I would have to say that was 'fair and balanced.'
:clap1: :clap1:

 

[Itsthetruth]

ItsTheTruth Wrote:


I just had to address this. There were so many ridiculously stupid comments in it I felt it would be remiss of me to let it go.

ItsTheTruth, the article title is not the point. The point is, once you read the article, you discovered that the Bush Administration had indeed responded to the shooting, in a completely appropriate way. The article itself answered its own question: Why hasn't Bush responded? With an answer: Oh yeah, he did!

No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is George Bush failed to respond to this shooting until yesterday. The fact that some underling of Bush said something is irrelevant. That's not what Native American leaders were addressing in the news article. Did George Bush lose his ability to speak? George Bush said nothing! He was silent until Saturday. Period!

So what's your point?

 

[freeandfun1]

No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is George Bush failed to respond to this shooting until yesterday. The fact that some underling of Bush said something is irrelevant. That's not what Native American leaders were addressing in the news article. Did George Bush lose his ability to speak? George Bush said nothing! He was silent until Saturday. Period!

So what's your point?

The point is.... WHO GIVES A FUCK?

Also, I really have been wondering about this.... how did a "native" American end up with a German name?

Weise - Variation of Weiss - German
From Middle High German wiz meaning "white". Originally a nickname for a person with white hair or skin.

 

[Trinity]

So what's your point?

Here we go again, I am going to speak very slowly......................................... YOU............... ARE.................. AN.............. IDIOT!

 

[007]

No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is George Bush failed to respond to this shooting until yesterday. The fact that some underling of Bush said something is irrelevant. That's not what Native American leaders were addressing in the news article. Did George Bush lose his ability to speak? George Bush said nothing! He was silent until Saturday. Period!

So what's your point?

SPIN? SPIN???!!!

Ya know, I don't know why decent people even take the time to try and explain anything to liberal idiots like you. You KNOW full damn well what the fuck you're doing, but you continue to babble your liberal line of bull shit right in the face of the "TRUTH".

I only have one thing to say to piles of dog shit like you, and it's short and sweet, and even you may understand it...

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY!!!

 

[Trinity]

SPIN? SPIN???!!!

Ya know, I don't know why decent people even take the time to try and explain anything to liberal idiots like you. You KNOW full damn well what the fuck you're doing, but you continue to babble your liberal line of bull shit right in the face of the "TRUTH".

I only have one thing to say to piles of dog shit like you, and it's short and sweet, and even you may understand it...

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY!!!

Damn Pale! :rotflmao: and I thought I was being a bitch! :rotflmao:

 

[freeandfun1]

I don't usually think of "white" skin when I think of "native" Americans.... lol

 

[007]

Damn Pale! :rotflmao: and I thought I was being a bitch! :rotflmao:

Well it's quite obvious that simple, normal, laymen's reasoning and substance isn't understood by liberals like ItsaDumbass. You have to get down to their trashy level before they'll understand anything you say.

 

[Trinity]

Well it's quite obvious that simple, normal, laymen's reasoning and substance isn't understood by liberals like ItsaDumbass. You have to get down to their trashy level before they'll understand anything you say.

I agree!

 

[Gem]

ItsTheTruth,

It seems here that your inability to deal with dissenting opinions rationally has alienated pretty much everyone else on the board...but just for shits and giggles, I'll keep trying for a bit.

Most simply: Your original premise that Bush didn't do anything until today is just wrong. Take a breath and move on.

Bush DID address the situation via his White House Spokesperson, Scott McClellan. This is not " some underling," as you so respectfully referred to him, but rather the person whos express purpose of employment is to convey the thoughts and opinions of the President and the Administration when, for whatever reason, the President is unable or chooses not to do so. Additionally, President Bush addressed the issue in person during his weekly radio address. He addressed it, ITT. He addressed the matter in a timely and appropriate manner...case closed on that argument.

Now...if you had wanted to begin the thread with showing the Bush Adminstation response to the matter and calling it inadequate..you would have had a reasonable thread...but you didn't...we've already covered that. If you had wanted to move beyond your original posting difficulties and discuss the subject rationally, which you were given every opportunity to do, you could have...but you seem to have chosen not to do that either...so what exactly are you still doing in this thread?

Do you want to talk about whether or not the Bush Administrations response was timely enough? Strong enough? Appropriate for the given tragedy? Any of these would be valid topics to move the conversation forward...I would choose one for you, but its not my thread.

Or do you want to continue insisting that the President did nothing, which has already been shown to be a lie...and wonder why no one here takes you seriously?

 

[sitarro]

I don't usually think of "white" skin when I think of "native" Americans.... lol

Wasn't there proof of Viking inhabitants predating the self proclaimed native Americans ?I seem to remember a study that came out a few years ago? I have never understood that label , I am a native of America but just get labeled as caucasian in most surveys .
All of you guys have been brutal with cousin"it's" . . . I love it !. . You are such a pussy "it's" . . . respectfully of course . :fu2:
Speaking of "Native Americans" , I have always had a fondness for a lot of the American Indian customs ,their art work , their hair, and the way they have led their lives while rarely whining about how bad their ancestors were treated. The pride in not constantly going to Washington to demand hand outs has always made me feel they are to be respected as a people . Of course there are exceptions like Russell Means , you could always count on him to say something stupid and mount a protest on Columbus day in Denver.
Most have dealt with a lot of crap in their way and some seem to be coming out ahead , finally . They've got the cigarette thing going and now the casinos . I worked on a golf course outside of Phoenix a few years ago that was on a reservation . They were planning on a second 18 holes , a convention center , and a resort around a lake . The casino that was a few 100 yards away had made 120 million the year before and I10 runs through the middle of the reservation so the Feds pay rent on the land. Just a little trivia . . .come on "it's" , cut up an article that states how awful it is to be a Native American just to prove me wrong . . . . respectfully

 

[freeandfun1]

Hey, I've got nutt'n against injuns. Hell, I have injun blood in me myself. My grandmother was 3/4 Comanche. My point is this guys last name is Weiss which is german for "white skin" or 'white hair". I just found it funny.

Have you heard about the controversy up in Washington state? They found the oldest human remains ever found in North America. Guess what? They were of a white dude. They are over 10,000 years old. But the indians claim that since the remains are so old, they belong to them and they won't allow any research to be done on the remains.

If I recall, he is called the Kinnewak man or something like that.

 

[freeandfun1]

Here we go:

The Controversy: Who Is Kennewick Man?

Public interest, debate, and controversy began when an independent archaeologist, working on contract to the Kennewick coroner, decided the bones were ancient but might not be Native American. He described them as "Caucasoid" and sent a piece of bone to a laboratory to be dated. The final date indicated an age of 8,400 years, making Kennewick Man one of the oldest and most complete skeletons found in the Americas. But if it is true that these human remains are thousands of years old, and are not Native American, then who was Kennewick Man? This question raised a number of other questions that have put Kennewick Man "on trial" in the public eye.

 

[sitarro]

Here we go:

The Controversy: Who Is Kennewick Man?

No offense taken free , I was just rambling . . .
That guy you are refering to is the story I was talking about , there was a big controversy about that human remains . The tribe that controlled the area were he was found claimed grave robbing and ordered the remains returned . . . they seemed to be a bit nervous about the native American status .
Thanks for the link, I'll read it .

 

[Trigg]

Wasn't there proof of Viking inhabitants predating the self proclaimed native Americans ?

I don't think Indians proclaimed themselves Native Americans. Ask them and they will usually say they'd rather be identified by their tribal name or as just Indian. My great grandmother was 1/2 cherokee and she never identified herself as native american.

The article about Kinnewak man is interresting. I would think though with people coming here over the land bridge they would look more Asian or at least resemble the Eskimo more than white??

 

[freeandfun1]

I don't think Indians proclaimed themselves Native Americans. Ask them and they will usually say they'd rather be identified by their tribal name or as just Indian. My great grandmother was 1/2 cherokee and she never identified herself as native american.

The article about Kinnewak man is interresting. I would think though with people coming here over the land bridge they would look more Asian or at least resemble the Eskimo more than white??

There are theories that eastern europeans travelled across the landbridge too. They have found remains in parts of northern China and Mongolia that shows the that some whites were trading and living in those areas thousands of years ago.

I took some Korean customers to a reservation in Arizona and they were all amazed at how much the older women especially looked like old Korean grandmas! lol

 

[Itsthetruth]

They found the oldest human remains ever found in North America. Guess what? They were of a white dude. They are over 10,000 years old.

A white man???!!!!! Hardly. Do you think he was French or perhaps German? Why of course he was. This "white dude" marched east all the way across Asia and than worked his way down the North American continent!

Sure. He certainly couldn't have been Asian now could he?? And where do you think the first Native Americans (Indians) came from my friend? Poland?

Amazing how some right-wing sillyness is passed off as good science!

 

[freeandfun1]

A white man???!!!!! Hardly. Do you think he was French or perhaps German? Why of course he was. This "white dude" marched east all the way across Asia and than worked his way down the North American continent!

Sure. He certainly couldn't have been Asian now could he?? And where do you think the first Native Americans (Indians) came from my friend? Poland?

Amazing how some right-wing sillyness is passed off as good science!

Did you read the link ignoramus?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

ITT seems to think incredulous questions with exclaimation marks are a form of debate.