teddyearp
Gold Member
I have had this post on my mind for a long time, but I have found that it will take too much to just post, so I'll compose it locally before posting it publicly.
Which I have now done.
I don't know how to start. The confession or the thank you first.
I guess I'll say thank you first for now. I have been a member of tripadvisor.com and have posted and read almost exclusively in the Israel forums. Reading there, I planned my own trip to Israel and that experience showed me that Israel is an awesome place to be able to visit and not at all the 'war zone' that most of the world believes it to be. However, discussing the politics of the area there is a big no-no. So I wanted to find a place that people discussed the politics of the area, and that is how I landed here. I started as pro-Israel, but wanted to truly attempt to open my mind to try to learn the 'other side' of the story. Well, I have. I have learned quite a bit from those who are Pro-Palestine; not only from the information that 'they' have posted, but also the sources and the means in which most of it has been posted. And I must confess, it hasn't done much to change my stance. I will admit there were times, it could have, or maybe should have, but upon further investigation, I must say that most of the information was based upon an emotional response or a twisty turny path through reality. I have learned a lot about the history of the region and a lot about the incidents that occurred in the past and the present that keeps this conflict (unfortunately) alive. I have learned that to be Pro-Palestine is just another way of being anti-Israel.
Suffice it to say: as others have said, it is like trying to figure out which came first. The chicken or the egg. That seems to be at the heart of the conflict currently. However I am still somewhat on the side of the Israelis; as I think that everything was hunkey dorey while the Ottomans and the British encouraged the Jews; no, invited the Jews to come back to Israel and form a homeland for the Jews. But between the Jews and the Arabs; the Mufti of Jerusalem decided to incite the Arabs against the Jews. Hebron 1929. But the hatred of the Jews started well before that. Search out the real truth and you will see it too. Around 150 BCE the King of Syria wanted to outlaw the Sabbath and circumcision. Funny that the City of San Fransisco wanted to outlaw circumcision in the early 21st century as well. Coincidence? Moving forward, the Jews have been persecuted all through the common era all over Europe. But nobody talks about that, especially the 'pro-palestinian' crowd. All through the middle ages, European country after country expelled the Jews, or at the very least wanted to take away their property and turn them into slaves. For what? Even Martin Luther wanted the world to hate the Jews. The Moslems have never been persecuted like that. Ever.
On the other side of my coin, my confession.
Well, as I said, the Ottoman's, the British, and even some of the Arabs decided that after centuries of Jewish persecution that the Jews should be allowed; no, invited to immigrate back to and re-establish their homeland in Israel; well why not? The rest of the world has hated them and persecuted them for hundreds of years. Yes, there were people that would be displaced in the process. I feel sorry for them. However, those 'peoples' were also on one hand invited to stay and become part of the new nation; yet on the other hand encouraged to flee in hopes that (from the neighboring countries) the Jewish state would not last. Or to say bluntly, "The jews will be driven into the sea". But they were not. So, I feel it is all on the Arabs that they 'lost' "Palestine". Deal with it! They could have stayed as many other Arabs did. Just look at Tel Aviv-Yafo. Yes, it is a shame that some Arabs were displaced, or at the very least, felt like they had to leave; or at the very worst some were expelled. In 1948, sure many Arabs/Moslems were expelled from Israel (abt 750,000), but at the same time more like a million Jews were expelled from the neighboring Arab countries. AT THE SAME TIME! In 1948. And I still really have a very hard time with the fact that there were about 750,000 "refugees" from "Palestine" yet now there are more like 6.5 million! Sounds more like a welfare state than anything else.
So to wind down, in 1948, the British decided they were done with trying to mediate the 'civil war' between the Arabs and the Jews and gave it over to the UN. The UN partitioned the area and the Jews said, (paraphrased) "Ok we will take what we have now and declare a democratic country right here with what we have". Over the years as we all know, the Arab countries disagreed, but have lost conflict after conflict; war after war. And many agreements and occords later: So as I have posted before, now that the Palestinians are where they are with the areas that they control, why shouldn't they do the same as the Israelis did in 1948? Declare an independent democratic state right where they are and can? Why not? Sorry 'Bibi'! I see that as the only solution, otherwise, the "Palestinians" are going away. Or as Lope stated, maybe just give up and let Israel declare the whole of the country as Israel and let the 'Palestinians' become Israeli's.
At the end of the day, I am done with the 'Palestinians'. Either form your peaceful state now or forever forget about it.
Which I have now done.
I don't know how to start. The confession or the thank you first.
I guess I'll say thank you first for now. I have been a member of tripadvisor.com and have posted and read almost exclusively in the Israel forums. Reading there, I planned my own trip to Israel and that experience showed me that Israel is an awesome place to be able to visit and not at all the 'war zone' that most of the world believes it to be. However, discussing the politics of the area there is a big no-no. So I wanted to find a place that people discussed the politics of the area, and that is how I landed here. I started as pro-Israel, but wanted to truly attempt to open my mind to try to learn the 'other side' of the story. Well, I have. I have learned quite a bit from those who are Pro-Palestine; not only from the information that 'they' have posted, but also the sources and the means in which most of it has been posted. And I must confess, it hasn't done much to change my stance. I will admit there were times, it could have, or maybe should have, but upon further investigation, I must say that most of the information was based upon an emotional response or a twisty turny path through reality. I have learned a lot about the history of the region and a lot about the incidents that occurred in the past and the present that keeps this conflict (unfortunately) alive. I have learned that to be Pro-Palestine is just another way of being anti-Israel.
Suffice it to say: as others have said, it is like trying to figure out which came first. The chicken or the egg. That seems to be at the heart of the conflict currently. However I am still somewhat on the side of the Israelis; as I think that everything was hunkey dorey while the Ottomans and the British encouraged the Jews; no, invited the Jews to come back to Israel and form a homeland for the Jews. But between the Jews and the Arabs; the Mufti of Jerusalem decided to incite the Arabs against the Jews. Hebron 1929. But the hatred of the Jews started well before that. Search out the real truth and you will see it too. Around 150 BCE the King of Syria wanted to outlaw the Sabbath and circumcision. Funny that the City of San Fransisco wanted to outlaw circumcision in the early 21st century as well. Coincidence? Moving forward, the Jews have been persecuted all through the common era all over Europe. But nobody talks about that, especially the 'pro-palestinian' crowd. All through the middle ages, European country after country expelled the Jews, or at the very least wanted to take away their property and turn them into slaves. For what? Even Martin Luther wanted the world to hate the Jews. The Moslems have never been persecuted like that. Ever.
On the other side of my coin, my confession.
Well, as I said, the Ottoman's, the British, and even some of the Arabs decided that after centuries of Jewish persecution that the Jews should be allowed; no, invited to immigrate back to and re-establish their homeland in Israel; well why not? The rest of the world has hated them and persecuted them for hundreds of years. Yes, there were people that would be displaced in the process. I feel sorry for them. However, those 'peoples' were also on one hand invited to stay and become part of the new nation; yet on the other hand encouraged to flee in hopes that (from the neighboring countries) the Jewish state would not last. Or to say bluntly, "The jews will be driven into the sea". But they were not. So, I feel it is all on the Arabs that they 'lost' "Palestine". Deal with it! They could have stayed as many other Arabs did. Just look at Tel Aviv-Yafo. Yes, it is a shame that some Arabs were displaced, or at the very least, felt like they had to leave; or at the very worst some were expelled. In 1948, sure many Arabs/Moslems were expelled from Israel (abt 750,000), but at the same time more like a million Jews were expelled from the neighboring Arab countries. AT THE SAME TIME! In 1948. And I still really have a very hard time with the fact that there were about 750,000 "refugees" from "Palestine" yet now there are more like 6.5 million! Sounds more like a welfare state than anything else.
So to wind down, in 1948, the British decided they were done with trying to mediate the 'civil war' between the Arabs and the Jews and gave it over to the UN. The UN partitioned the area and the Jews said, (paraphrased) "Ok we will take what we have now and declare a democratic country right here with what we have". Over the years as we all know, the Arab countries disagreed, but have lost conflict after conflict; war after war. And many agreements and occords later: So as I have posted before, now that the Palestinians are where they are with the areas that they control, why shouldn't they do the same as the Israelis did in 1948? Declare an independent democratic state right where they are and can? Why not? Sorry 'Bibi'! I see that as the only solution, otherwise, the "Palestinians" are going away. Or as Lope stated, maybe just give up and let Israel declare the whole of the country as Israel and let the 'Palestinians' become Israeli's.
At the end of the day, I am done with the 'Palestinians'. Either form your peaceful state now or forever forget about it.
