Moskva sunk by US Navy - Submarine launched Harpoon

[Manonthestreet]

One 500 lb warhead sank a cruiser......with no secondary explosions.....I doubt it.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Neptune is even smaller.....

 

[rightwinger]

I can reasonably demonstrate that the Moskva was not attacked from land, but attacked from the sea.

Contrary to what most here think, I'm American - but I do not agree with America's hubris. I think we are playing dangerous games propping up a fascist-Nazi state that is as corrupt as the other quasi-fascist state that's attacking it. I SUPPOSE the idea to raise the costs against Russia is ok to an extent, but it's a very dangerous game so we should cut our losses. I fully disagree with the sanctions and weaponization of SWIFT. Like "Die Hard", where the plan was to use the FBI's own play book against them, Russia knew we'd walk right into that trap.

Now - that being said - I think the US sinking Moskva from a Los Angeles class launched Harpoon is clever as all fuck....BUT....I don't think the risk outweighs the reward. I can't be the only one to have discovered this and Russia will have much better information in the after action review and interrogation of the ship's crew.

View attachment 634724

We've all seen this video, but what most of you probably don't pay attention to is a few things:

1. AK-630s are in the shutdown-stern position. Never activated.
2. S-300 tubes are closed, when the weapon system is activated the tube is open.
3. SA-N-4 GECKOs were also in the offline position.

So the systems were offline - no DOUBT about it. The problem I have is that so many are quick to assume the Russians were just incompetent and didn't turn on their systems.

That's unlikely.

Now, regardless your biases, you cannot refute this evidence.

1. The ship is listing with the wind, the smoke is leaning with the wind.
2. The windage of the Moskva is greatest to the stern, which means the stern would be pulled into the wind (sailing mechanics). This hasn't happened yet therefore the ship is still in its original heading.
3. The firefighting-rescue ships that arrive on scene (origin of picture) have not lashed to the Moskva and have not towed her into any other position.

Because the Moskva was on an air defense mission, presumably it just was station keeping and thus an easy target, regardless it wouldn't have been able to complete a turn, the fact the ship is not underway reveals a few things about its condition before being attacked, but since the attack is so precisely in its engine room it's unlikely the ship completed any kind of turn at all let alone a 180degree turn.

Here is the wind from April 12 to April 15
View attachment 634728
April 12

View attachment 634730
April 13 (Attack) I drew some hypothetical ship positions

View attachment 634734
April 14, about 6am Odessa time.

View attachment 634736

April 14 9AM Odessa time

View attachment 634739

3PM Odessa time.

Anyway - the winds don't change again until night fall when they start to push north.

So at no time is the Moskva subjected to winds that give the Ukrainians a shot. The missile would have had to come from Odessa, Mikolaiv is a war zone and constantly bombarded. The Neptune system is a 6 truck convoy that looks similar to air defense and Russia is blowing-up air defense where ever it finds them in the east. Mikolaiv is a POSSIBLE shot...but very improbable.

And the ship is not perpindicular to the wind but to the starboard of the wind which means that even Mikolaiv would be an unlikely shot.

Also the presumed sinking location is a bit out of reach.

So, why the LA class Sub attack?

If we make the assumption that Moskva would have readied her defenses seeing a sub-sonic missile clunking toward her for 5-10 minutes flight time, then the logical answer is how could they be attacked without enough time to respond?

The Neptune in a round-about way is a derivative of the Harpoon.

Navy Adding Anti-Ship Harpoons Back On Los Angeles Subs Until Tomahawks Ready - Defense Daily

The Navy is going to start putting anti-ship Harpoon missiles on Los Angeles-class submarines this year until the new anti-ship Tomahawk is ready...

www.defensedaily.com

The US Navy has this capability.

Moskva would track but not see a Los Angeles class submarine as a threat (if they even detected it at all. Moskva has some anti-sub capability but it's mostly in its helicopter not its subsystems).

The submarine could definitely get within a 30 second shot. Even one minute would be a very short reaction time. 4 minutes the crew could respond to, 1 minute not likely, 30 seconds almost not at all.

I think there is a STRONG case that the wind as evidenced by the smoke's lean, shows that the Moskva was attacked from the south east or easterly direction. Presumably very close range. With a missile that COULD BE MISTAKEN for a Neptune, such that if Russia dives the wreck they won't have that piece of evidence if any could be found.

I think Russia has access to this information as well, and not willing to start WW3 over it, gives out their cockamaime excuse of a fire on board and a storm at sea (can clearly see no storm Apr 13 - Apr 14).

The Russians will ask the crew what went wrong, the likely answer is they had no reaction time. They will report what side of the ship they were hit from, someone will KNOW they were hit port side, and what heading was the ship when hit? Someone will know, presumably south west.

The Russians WILL know the attack didn't come from Ukraine. Regardless if they deduce it from a few images and some wind data.

This can't be 100%, but the Russians will know 100%.

What?

I thought you guys said it was a fire

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What?

I thought you guys said it was a fire

Darth said it wasn't going to sink.

 

[Esdraelon]

They will report what side of the ship they were hit from, someone will KNOW they were hit port side, and what heading was the ship when hit? Someone will know, presumably south west.

You do know that there are multiple iterations of that old standby, right? They usually have a low-apogee popup profile. In that case, the weapon would not have damaged one side more than another. The Neptune is a "pure sea-skimmer". Your contacts in Russia also still blame the U.S. for the loss of the Kursk. IF the data you are sharing is legitimate and Putin believes we zapped hi ship do you REALLY think he wouldn't use that to his advantage? I mean, he's the one who came out of the gate warning that ANY meddling by the U.S. or NATO would lead to potential nuclear strike.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I can reasonably demonstrate that the Moskva was not attacked from land, but attacked from the sea.

Contrary to what most here think, I'm American - but I do not agree with America's hubris. I think we are playing dangerous games propping up a fascist-Nazi state that is as corrupt as the other quasi-fascist state that's attacking it. I SUPPOSE the idea to raise the costs against Russia is ok to an extent, but it's a very dangerous game so we should cut our losses. I fully disagree with the sanctions and weaponization of SWIFT. Like "Die Hard", where the plan was to use the FBI's own play book against them, Russia knew we'd walk right into that trap.

Now - that being said - I think the US sinking Moskva from a Los Angeles class launched Harpoon is clever as all fuck....BUT....I don't think the risk outweighs the reward. I can't be the only one to have discovered this and Russia will have much better information in the after action review and interrogation of the ship's crew.

View attachment 634724

We've all seen this video, but what most of you probably don't pay attention to is a few things:

1. AK-630s are in the shutdown-stern position. Never activated.
2. S-300 tubes are closed, when the weapon system is activated the tube is open.
3. SA-N-4 GECKOs were also in the offline position.

So the systems were offline - no DOUBT about it. The problem I have is that so many are quick to assume the Russians were just incompetent and didn't turn on their systems.

That's unlikely.

Now, regardless your biases, you cannot refute this evidence.

1. The ship is listing with the wind, the smoke is leaning with the wind.
2. The windage of the Moskva is greatest to the stern, which means the stern would be pulled into the wind (sailing mechanics). This hasn't happened yet therefore the ship is still in its original heading.
3. The firefighting-rescue ships that arrive on scene (origin of picture) have not lashed to the Moskva and have not towed her into any other position.

Because the Moskva was on an air defense mission, presumably it just was station keeping and thus an easy target, regardless it wouldn't have been able to complete a turn, the fact the ship is not underway reveals a few things about its condition before being attacked, but since the attack is so precisely in its engine room it's unlikely the ship completed any kind of turn at all let alone a 180degree turn.

Here is the wind from April 12 to April 15
View attachment 634728
April 12

View attachment 634730
April 13 (Attack) I drew some hypothetical ship positions

View attachment 634734
April 14, about 6am Odessa time.

View attachment 634736

April 14 9AM Odessa time

View attachment 634739

3PM Odessa time.

Anyway - the winds don't change again until night fall when they start to push north.

So at no time is the Moskva subjected to winds that give the Ukrainians a shot. The missile would have had to come from Odessa, Mikolaiv is a war zone and constantly bombarded. The Neptune system is a 6 truck convoy that looks similar to air defense and Russia is blowing-up air defense where ever it finds them in the east. Mikolaiv is a POSSIBLE shot...but very improbable.

And the ship is not perpindicular to the wind but to the starboard of the wind which means that even Mikolaiv would be an unlikely shot.

Also the presumed sinking location is a bit out of reach.

So, why the LA class Sub attack?

If we make the assumption that Moskva would have readied her defenses seeing a sub-sonic missile clunking toward her for 5-10 minutes flight time, then the logical answer is how could they be attacked without enough time to respond?

The Neptune in a round-about way is a derivative of the Harpoon.

Navy Adding Anti-Ship Harpoons Back On Los Angeles Subs Until Tomahawks Ready - Defense Daily

The Navy is going to start putting anti-ship Harpoon missiles on Los Angeles-class submarines this year until the new anti-ship Tomahawk is ready...

www.defensedaily.com

The US Navy has this capability.

Moskva would track but not see a Los Angeles class submarine as a threat (if they even detected it at all. Moskva has some anti-sub capability but it's mostly in its helicopter not its subsystems).

The submarine could definitely get within a 30 second shot. Even one minute would be a very short reaction time. 4 minutes the crew could respond to, 1 minute not likely, 30 seconds almost not at all.

I think there is a STRONG case that the wind as evidenced by the smoke's lean, shows that the Moskva was attacked from the south east or easterly direction. Presumably very close range. With a missile that COULD BE MISTAKEN for a Neptune, such that if Russia dives the wreck they won't have that piece of evidence if any could be found.

I think Russia has access to this information as well, and not willing to start WW3 over it, gives out their cockamaime excuse of a fire on board and a storm at sea (can clearly see no storm Apr 13 - Apr 14).

The Russians will ask the crew what went wrong, the likely answer is they had no reaction time. They will report what side of the ship they were hit from, someone will KNOW they were hit port side, and what heading was the ship when hit? Someone will know, presumably south west.

The Russians WILL know the attack didn't come from Ukraine. Regardless if they deduce it from a few images and some wind data.

This can't be 100%, but the Russians will know 100%.

The Globalists need to start WWIII so their democrat Flying Monkeys don't get wiped out in the midterms

 

[Manonthestreet]

You do know that there are multiple iterations of that old standby, right? They usually have a low-apogee popup profile. In that case, the weapon would not have damaged one side more than another. The Neptune is a "pure sea-skimmer". Your contacts in Russia also still blame the U.S. for the loss of the Kursk. IF the data you are sharing is legitimate and Putin believes we zapped hi ship do you REALLY think he wouldn't use that to his advantage? I mean, he's the one who came out of the gate warning that ANY meddling by the U.S. or NATO would lead to potential nuclear strike.

They probably had a sub or two themselves in the area acting as a screening force to sea side

 

[BackAgain]

The OP Putin bot only says this shit because he can’t believe that his beloved Russia could have a flag ship sunk by Ukraine’s armed forces.

 

[Esdraelon]

People can assume that you can "plant evidence" on land. But getting a piece of evidence inside a sunken ship is nearly impossible.

There is no need to get "evidence" from inside the wreck. Hadn't you noticed? The entire freakin' WORLD is in the midst of an info-war. We live in a post-truth, post-factual reality now. That basically began as a result of the media's efforts to destroy the DC outsider between 2017 and 2021. Put another way... when the "sides" begin casting flack at each other, all that's required is to just say -BS! That isn't TRUE!

You seem to be basing nearly all of your premise on Ukraine being unable to have staged Neptunes in hidden locations before hostilities began. You have NO WAY to prove that premise. Sea skimming AS missiles only have to get close enough for their radar to lock on. That vessel - by your own admission - is old and not updated with modern systems. That said, the Russians HAD TO KNOW what capabilities Ukraine had for AS weapons. WHY would they assume there could not have been any AS weapons hidden close to the coasts? If the old ship wasn't painting the shoreline or the sea surface around themselves then a sea skimmer could EASILY do what happened here.

Supposedly, Moskva had multiple point-defense batteries that were in place for self defense against missile threats. If that ship's captain didn't have those capabilities or if for some reason they weren't active then he's totally culpable for the loss of life and the loss of the vessel.

 

[yidnar]

Based on some estimations of time (sun angles that make sense).

The ship is in THIS location:

View attachment 634756

O is the observer, drew the squiggles to show lean of the smoke. Drew a sun to give approximate position of sun (sun angle) for ~3pm Odessa time on April 14 before the ship sunk.

I think we have a smoking gun here.

Lastly - the location is the known operational area of the Moskva from Feb29 to April 4th.

Because how windage works, the ship would have turned stern to wind, so the heading could have been even MORE 270deg (bow to the west)....and it had already begun to turn with the wind.

View attachment 634757

Currents on April 14 at 3pm Odessa time.

View attachment 634759

The ship would have had to be at either of those "X" areas to have been turned by currents....

to break it down into laymans terms are you saying the Russian vessel was hit on the side pointing away from land and that means that it may have been a sub that hit it?

 

[BackAgain]

DarfTraitor is parroting more Russian propaganda. For example, just compare “his” analysis with the bullshit from a crap Russian propaganda site: USA targeting of Moskva ship is Russia’s “Pearl Harbor” … RETALIATION is Putin’s next move, and the USA just handed him all the domestic support he needs | Source: (Natural News) To understand the sinking of the Moskva and Putin’s impending retaliation against the United States, you first have to realize that any national leader wanting to make bold military moves first needs the support of his own people. In 1941, Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen (the US government knew all about

 

[yidnar]

I can reasonably demonstrate that the Moskva was not attacked from land, but attacked from the sea.

Contrary to what most here think, I'm American - but I do not agree with America's hubris. I think we are playing dangerous games propping up a fascist-Nazi state that is as corrupt as the other quasi-fascist state that's attacking it. I SUPPOSE the idea to raise the costs against Russia is ok to an extent, but it's a very dangerous game so we should cut our losses. I fully disagree with the sanctions and weaponization of SWIFT. Like "Die Hard", where the plan was to use the FBI's own play book against them, Russia knew we'd walk right into that trap.

Now - that being said - I think the US sinking Moskva from a Los Angeles class launched Harpoon is clever as all fuck....BUT....I don't think the risk outweighs the reward. I can't be the only one to have discovered this and Russia will have much better information in the after action review and interrogation of the ship's crew.

View attachment 634724

We've all seen this video, but what most of you probably don't pay attention to is a few things:

1. AK-630s are in the shutdown-stern position. Never activated.
2. S-300 tubes are closed, when the weapon system is activated the tube is open.
3. SA-N-4 GECKOs were also in the offline position.

So the systems were offline - no DOUBT about it. The problem I have is that so many are quick to assume the Russians were just incompetent and didn't turn on their systems.

That's unlikely.

Now, regardless your biases, you cannot refute this evidence.

1. The ship is listing with the wind, the smoke is leaning with the wind.
2. The windage of the Moskva is greatest to the stern, which means the stern would be pulled into the wind (sailing mechanics). This hasn't happened yet therefore the ship is still in its original heading.
3. The firefighting-rescue ships that arrive on scene (origin of picture) have not lashed to the Moskva and have not towed her into any other position.

Because the Moskva was on an air defense mission, presumably it just was station keeping and thus an easy target, regardless it wouldn't have been able to complete a turn, the fact the ship is not underway reveals a few things about its condition before being attacked, but since the attack is so precisely in its engine room it's unlikely the ship completed any kind of turn at all let alone a 180degree turn.

Here is the wind from April 12 to April 15
View attachment 634728
April 12

View attachment 634730
April 13 (Attack) I drew some hypothetical ship positions

View attachment 634734
April 14, about 6am Odessa time.

View attachment 634736

April 14 9AM Odessa time

View attachment 634739

3PM Odessa time.

Anyway - the winds don't change again until night fall when they start to push north.

So at no time is the Moskva subjected to winds that give the Ukrainians a shot. The missile would have had to come from Odessa, Mikolaiv is a war zone and constantly bombarded. The Neptune system is a 6 truck convoy that looks similar to air defense and Russia is blowing-up air defense where ever it finds them in the east. Mikolaiv is a POSSIBLE shot...but very improbable.

And the ship is not perpindicular to the wind but to the starboard of the wind which means that even Mikolaiv would be an unlikely shot.

Also the presumed sinking location is a bit out of reach.

So, why the LA class Sub attack?

If we make the assumption that Moskva would have readied her defenses seeing a sub-sonic missile clunking toward her for 5-10 minutes flight time, then the logical answer is how could they be attacked without enough time to respond?

The Neptune in a round-about way is a derivative of the Harpoon.

Navy Adding Anti-Ship Harpoons Back On Los Angeles Subs Until Tomahawks Ready - Defense Daily

The Navy is going to start putting anti-ship Harpoon missiles on Los Angeles-class submarines this year until the new anti-ship Tomahawk is ready...

www.defensedaily.com

The US Navy has this capability.

Moskva would track but not see a Los Angeles class submarine as a threat (if they even detected it at all. Moskva has some anti-sub capability but it's mostly in its helicopter not its subsystems).

The submarine could definitely get within a 30 second shot. Even one minute would be a very short reaction time. 4 minutes the crew could respond to, 1 minute not likely, 30 seconds almost not at all.

I think there is a STRONG case that the wind as evidenced by the smoke's lean, shows that the Moskva was attacked from the south east or easterly direction. Presumably very close range. With a missile that COULD BE MISTAKEN for a Neptune, such that if Russia dives the wreck they won't have that piece of evidence if any could be found.

I think Russia has access to this information as well, and not willing to start WW3 over it, gives out their cockamaime excuse of a fire on board and a storm at sea (can clearly see no storm Apr 13 - Apr 14).

The Russians will ask the crew what went wrong, the likely answer is they had no reaction time. They will report what side of the ship they were hit from, someone will KNOW they were hit port side, and what heading was the ship when hit? Someone will know, presumably south west.

The Russians WILL know the attack didn't come from Ukraine. Regardless if they deduce it from a few images and some wind data.

This can't be 100%, but the Russians will know 100%.

silence commie ! enough of the propaganda you vomit ! i shall now call you Barf Vader !

 

[candycorn]

I can reasonably demonstrate that the Moskva was not attacked from land, but attacked from the sea.

Contrary to what most here think, I'm American - but I do not agree with America's hubris. I think we are playing dangerous games propping up a fascist-Nazi state that is as corrupt as the other quasi-fascist state that's attacking it. I SUPPOSE the idea to raise the costs against Russia is ok to an extent, but it's a very dangerous game so we should cut our losses. I fully disagree with the sanctions and weaponization of SWIFT. Like "Die Hard", where the plan was to use the FBI's own play book against them, Russia knew we'd walk right into that trap.

Now - that being said - I think the US sinking Moskva from a Los Angeles class launched Harpoon is clever as all fuck....BUT....I don't think the risk outweighs the reward. I can't be the only one to have discovered this and Russia will have much better information in the after action review and interrogation of the ship's crew.

View attachment 634724

We've all seen this video, but what most of you probably don't pay attention to is a few things:

1. AK-630s are in the shutdown-stern position. Never activated.
2. S-300 tubes are closed, when the weapon system is activated the tube is open.
3. SA-N-4 GECKOs were also in the offline position.

So the systems were offline - no DOUBT about it. The problem I have is that so many are quick to assume the Russians were just incompetent and didn't turn on their systems.

That's unlikely.

Now, regardless your biases, you cannot refute this evidence.

1. The ship is listing with the wind, the smoke is leaning with the wind.
2. The windage of the Moskva is greatest to the stern, which means the stern would be pulled into the wind (sailing mechanics). This hasn't happened yet therefore the ship is still in its original heading.
3. The firefighting-rescue ships that arrive on scene (origin of picture) have not lashed to the Moskva and have not towed her into any other position.

Because the Moskva was on an air defense mission, presumably it just was station keeping and thus an easy target, regardless it wouldn't have been able to complete a turn, the fact the ship is not underway reveals a few things about its condition before being attacked, but since the attack is so precisely in its engine room it's unlikely the ship completed any kind of turn at all let alone a 180degree turn.

Here is the wind from April 12 to April 15
View attachment 634728
April 12

View attachment 634730
April 13 (Attack) I drew some hypothetical ship positions

View attachment 634734
April 14, about 6am Odessa time.

View attachment 634736

April 14 9AM Odessa time

View attachment 634739

3PM Odessa time.

Anyway - the winds don't change again until night fall when they start to push north.

So at no time is the Moskva subjected to winds that give the Ukrainians a shot. The missile would have had to come from Odessa, Mikolaiv is a war zone and constantly bombarded. The Neptune system is a 6 truck convoy that looks similar to air defense and Russia is blowing-up air defense where ever it finds them in the east. Mikolaiv is a POSSIBLE shot...but very improbable.

And the ship is not perpindicular to the wind but to the starboard of the wind which means that even Mikolaiv would be an unlikely shot.

Also the presumed sinking location is a bit out of reach.

So, why the LA class Sub attack?

If we make the assumption that Moskva would have readied her defenses seeing a sub-sonic missile clunking toward her for 5-10 minutes flight time, then the logical answer is how could they be attacked without enough time to respond?

The Neptune in a round-about way is a derivative of the Harpoon.

Navy Adding Anti-Ship Harpoons Back On Los Angeles Subs Until Tomahawks Ready - Defense Daily

The Navy is going to start putting anti-ship Harpoon missiles on Los Angeles-class submarines this year until the new anti-ship Tomahawk is ready...

www.defensedaily.com

The US Navy has this capability.

Moskva would track but not see a Los Angeles class submarine as a threat (if they even detected it at all. Moskva has some anti-sub capability but it's mostly in its helicopter not its subsystems).

The submarine could definitely get within a 30 second shot. Even one minute would be a very short reaction time. 4 minutes the crew could respond to, 1 minute not likely, 30 seconds almost not at all.

I think there is a STRONG case that the wind as evidenced by the smoke's lean, shows that the Moskva was attacked from the south east or easterly direction. Presumably very close range. With a missile that COULD BE MISTAKEN for a Neptune, such that if Russia dives the wreck they won't have that piece of evidence if any could be found.

I think Russia has access to this information as well, and not willing to start WW3 over it, gives out their cockamaime excuse of a fire on board and a storm at sea (can clearly see no storm Apr 13 - Apr 14).

The Russians will ask the crew what went wrong, the likely answer is they had no reaction time. They will report what side of the ship they were hit from, someone will KNOW they were hit port side, and what heading was the ship when hit? Someone will know, presumably south west.

The Russians WILL know the attack didn't come from Ukraine. Regardless if they deduce it from a few images and some wind data.

This can't be 100%, but the Russians will know 100%.

wrong.

 

[Rigby5]

Why would the U.S. attack this ship? Was it a significant military asset in the present conflict?

The Russian ship was the single most significant military asset, in terms of cost, sensitive surveillance system, anti-aircraft, pinpoint missile launch capability, etc.
That is why the US has similar sorts of ships we sent into every conflict.

The US would also attack this ship because it is the most significant PR event.
It makes the Russians look really bad.

 

[Rigby5]

The obvious reason this was a US submarine attack and not a missile is that clearly the ship is taking on water.
It is not listing from wind, but from leakage.
And a missile could only hit superstructure above the water, not cause leakage below the water line.

 

[bodecea]

I can reasonably demonstrate that the Moskva was not attacked from land, but attacked from the sea.

Contrary to what most here think, I'm American - but I do not agree with America's hubris. I think we are playing dangerous games propping up a fascist-Nazi state that is as corrupt as the other quasi-fascist state that's attacking it. I SUPPOSE the idea to raise the costs against Russia is ok to an extent, but it's a very dangerous game so we should cut our losses. I fully disagree with the sanctions and weaponization of SWIFT. Like "Die Hard", where the plan was to use the FBI's own play book against them, Russia knew we'd walk right into that trap.

Now - that being said - I think the US sinking Moskva from a Los Angeles class launched Harpoon is clever as all fuck....BUT....I don't think the risk outweighs the reward. I can't be the only one to have discovered this and Russia will have much better information in the after action review and interrogation of the ship's crew.

View attachment 634724

We've all seen this video, but what most of you probably don't pay attention to is a few things:

1. AK-630s are in the shutdown-stern position. Never activated.
2. S-300 tubes are closed, when the weapon system is activated the tube is open.
3. SA-N-4 GECKOs were also in the offline position.

So the systems were offline - no DOUBT about it. The problem I have is that so many are quick to assume the Russians were just incompetent and didn't turn on their systems.

That's unlikely.

Now, regardless your biases, you cannot refute this evidence.

1. The ship is listing with the wind, the smoke is leaning with the wind.
2. The windage of the Moskva is greatest to the stern, which means the stern would be pulled into the wind (sailing mechanics). This hasn't happened yet therefore the ship is still in its original heading.
3. The firefighting-rescue ships that arrive on scene (origin of picture) have not lashed to the Moskva and have not towed her into any other position.

Because the Moskva was on an air defense mission, presumably it just was station keeping and thus an easy target, regardless it wouldn't have been able to complete a turn, the fact the ship is not underway reveals a few things about its condition before being attacked, but since the attack is so precisely in its engine room it's unlikely the ship completed any kind of turn at all let alone a 180degree turn.

Here is the wind from April 12 to April 15
View attachment 634728
April 12

View attachment 634730
April 13 (Attack) I drew some hypothetical ship positions

View attachment 634734
April 14, about 6am Odessa time.

View attachment 634736

April 14 9AM Odessa time

View attachment 634739

3PM Odessa time.

Anyway - the winds don't change again until night fall when they start to push north.

So at no time is the Moskva subjected to winds that give the Ukrainians a shot. The missile would have had to come from Odessa, Mikolaiv is a war zone and constantly bombarded. The Neptune system is a 6 truck convoy that looks similar to air defense and Russia is blowing-up air defense where ever it finds them in the east. Mikolaiv is a POSSIBLE shot...but very improbable.

And the ship is not perpindicular to the wind but to the starboard of the wind which means that even Mikolaiv would be an unlikely shot.

Also the presumed sinking location is a bit out of reach.

So, why the LA class Sub attack?

If we make the assumption that Moskva would have readied her defenses seeing a sub-sonic missile clunking toward her for 5-10 minutes flight time, then the logical answer is how could they be attacked without enough time to respond?

The Neptune in a round-about way is a derivative of the Harpoon.

Navy Adding Anti-Ship Harpoons Back On Los Angeles Subs Until Tomahawks Ready - Defense Daily

The Navy is going to start putting anti-ship Harpoon missiles on Los Angeles-class submarines this year until the new anti-ship Tomahawk is ready...

www.defensedaily.com

The US Navy has this capability.

Moskva would track but not see a Los Angeles class submarine as a threat (if they even detected it at all. Moskva has some anti-sub capability but it's mostly in its helicopter not its subsystems).

The submarine could definitely get within a 30 second shot. Even one minute would be a very short reaction time. 4 minutes the crew could respond to, 1 minute not likely, 30 seconds almost not at all.

I think there is a STRONG case that the wind as evidenced by the smoke's lean, shows that the Moskva was attacked from the south east or easterly direction. Presumably very close range. With a missile that COULD BE MISTAKEN for a Neptune, such that if Russia dives the wreck they won't have that piece of evidence if any could be found.

I think Russia has access to this information as well, and not willing to start WW3 over it, gives out their cockamaime excuse of a fire on board and a storm at sea (can clearly see no storm Apr 13 - Apr 14).

The Russians will ask the crew what went wrong, the likely answer is they had no reaction time. They will report what side of the ship they were hit from, someone will KNOW they were hit port side, and what heading was the ship when hit? Someone will know, presumably south west.

The Russians WILL know the attack didn't come from Ukraine. Regardless if they deduce it from a few images and some wind data.

This can't be 100%, but the Russians will know 100%.

Nope...and you know nothing about how to detect subs, do you?

 

[bodecea]

The obvious reason this was a US submarine attack and not a missile is that clearly the ship is taking on water.
It is not listing from wind, but from leakage.
And a missile could only hit superstructure above the water, not cause leakage below the water line.

You know nothing about this, do you? Didn't you hear their ammo locker blew up?

 

[Rigby5]

There is no way for a fire to sink a ship any more.
All ammunition is easily automatically flooded.

Sure one of the deck mounted missile could cause a lot of damage if it went off.
But clearly none of those missiles did go off.
If they had, it would not have been listing.

 

[Rigby5]

Nope...and you know nothing about how to detect subs, do you?

Subs are hard to detect, but the only way a ship can list is if hit below the water line.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The obvious reason this was a US submarine attack and not a missile is that clearly the ship is taking on water.
It is not listing from wind, but from leakage.
And a missile could only hit superstructure above the water, not cause leakage below the water line.

You think it was a torpedo? LOL!