Mofaz: Hamas won upper hand, truce a mistake

[toomuchtime_]

Politicians to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s Right and Left spoke out against Wednesday night’s cease-fire, with only Labor, Meretz and others on the Left supporting it.

“The goals of his operation were not reached, and the next round is only a matter of time,” Kadima chairman Shaul Mofaz said. “We should not have stopped at this stage. Hamas got stronger and we did not gain deterrence.”

Mofaz referred to his experience as an IDF chief of staff and leading Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, saying it is possible to defeat terrorism.

“The army knows how to do its work, and we could have won this time. A cease-fire at this point is a mistake; this is not how a war against terror ends. Hamas has the upper hand,” he stated.

Mofaz: Hamas won upper hand, truc... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

You could just write this off as political campaigning, but a poll taken just before the ceasefire was announced showed 70% of Israelis opposed it. Mofaz has not been doing well in the polls lately, but if this ceasefire does not hold, his experience as Defense Minister during Defensive Shield just might make him the next PM.

 

[Jroc]

They should have went in to clear those missile launching sites, they still may haft to

 

[toomuchtime_]

They should have went in to clear those missile launching sites, they still may haft to

They should have gone in to capture or kill the entire leadership of the terrorist gangs no matter how long it took and whatever the cost.

Israel is cursed lately with politicians in the PM's office instead of political leaders. First Olmert lost his nerve during Cast Lead, and now Netanyahu has done even worse. Israel needs a PM with some balls.

 

[Jroc]

They should have went in to clear those missile launching sites, they still may haft to

They should have gone in to capture or kill the entire leadership of the terrorist gangs no matter how long it took and whatever the cost.

Israel is cursed lately with politicians in the PM's office instead of political leaders. First Olmert lost his nerve during Cast Lead, and now Netanyahu has done even worse. Israel needs a PM with some balls.

I like Netanyahu, he is no Olmert. Wo knows what kind of pressure was put on him from Clinton and Obama. They need parts from us for their F16s ect...

 

[toomuchtime_]

They should have went in to clear those missile launching sites, they still may haft to

They should have gone in to capture or kill the entire leadership of the terrorist gangs no matter how long it took and whatever the cost.

Israel is cursed lately with politicians in the PM's office instead of political leaders. First Olmert lost his nerve during Cast Lead, and now Netanyahu has done even worse. Israel needs a PM with some balls.

I like Netanyahu, he is no Olmert. Wo knows what kind of pressure was put on him from Clinton and Obama. They need parts from us for their F16s ect...

I'm sure a lot of pressure was put on him by Obama and Clinton, but huge pressure was put on Eshkol before the Six Day War and on Begin before he ordered the IAF to take out Saddam's nuclear reactor and especially on Sharon before he ordered the IDF into areas A and B during the second intifada, but these leaders had the strength to do what was best for Israel despite US pressures and the political skills to keep the relationship strong. Netanyahu is a skilled politician but not a strong political leader.

This was the rap on him the first time he was PM, and I wanted to believe he had grown stronger, but he has not.

 

[irosie91]

sit tight----for the jihadists this is a hudna------it is just a matter of careful wait and watch now

 

[toomuchtime_]

sit tight----for the jihadists this is a hudna------it is just a matter of careful wait and watch now

It's not really a done deal yet. From what I have read, there is vague wording about Hamas not importing weapons, which Meshaal has already announced they will do, and while Israel agreed to allow goods and persons to move more freely through the crossings, no details on what that means have been agreed to. My sense is that the language was left vague because everyone knew they would not be able to agree on the details. That's fine when you're just talking, but in two days, they start negotiating the details, presumably through Egypt, and then we'll see if this ceasefire has any substance to it.

 

[Jroc]

They should have gone in to capture or kill the entire leadership of the terrorist gangs no matter how long it took and whatever the cost.

Israel is cursed lately with politicians in the PM's office instead of political leaders. First Olmert lost his nerve during Cast Lead, and now Netanyahu has done even worse. Israel needs a PM with some balls.

I like Netanyahu, he is no Olmert. Wo knows what kind of pressure was put on him from Clinton and Obama. They need parts from us for their F16s ect...

I'm sure a lot of pressure was put on him by Obama and Clinton, but huge pressure was put on Eshkol before the Six Day War and on Begin before he ordered the IAF to take out Saddam's nuclear reactor and especially on Sharon before he ordered the IDF into areas A and B during the second intifada, but these leaders had the strength to do what was best for Israel despite US pressures and the political skills to keep the relationship strong. Netanyahu is a skilled politician but not a strong political leader.

This was the rap on him the first time he was PM, and I wanted to believe he had grown stronger, but he has not.

The cease fire won't hold because it can't, Hamas's mission is to destroy Israel. The muslim brotherhoods mission is the same, so Netanyahu acts as if he's for it. Hamas will break the cease fire, then Israel will have to go in, plus let’s not forget Israel needs our help in taking out Iran when needed, this is not a reactor in Iraq we are talking about, The situation is not the same as thirty years ago, Netanyahu is the right leader for this

 

[Roudy]

Politicians to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s Right and Left spoke out against Wednesday night’s cease-fire, with only Labor, Meretz and others on the Left supporting it.

“The goals of his operation were not reached, and the next round is only a matter of time,” Kadima chairman Shaul Mofaz said. “We should not have stopped at this stage. Hamas got stronger and we did not gain deterrence.”

Mofaz referred to his experience as an IDF chief of staff and leading Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, saying it is possible to defeat terrorism.

“The army knows how to do its work, and we could have won this time. A cease-fire at this point is a mistake; this is not how a war against terror ends. Hamas has the upper hand,” he stated.

Mofaz: Hamas won upper hand, truc... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

You could just write this off as political campaigning, but a poll taken just before the ceasefire was announced showed 70% of Israelis opposed it. Mofaz has not been doing well in the polls lately, but if this ceasefire does not hold, his experience as Defense Minister during Defensive Shield just might make him the next PM.

Mofaz is running against him so everything Netanyahu does is wrong. Israeli politics are no different than American.

 

[Roudy]

I like Netanyahu, he is no Olmert. Wo knows what kind of pressure was put on him from Clinton and Obama. They need parts from us for their F16s ect...

I'm sure a lot of pressure was put on him by Obama and Clinton, but huge pressure was put on Eshkol before the Six Day War and on Begin before he ordered the IAF to take out Saddam's nuclear reactor and especially on Sharon before he ordered the IDF into areas A and B during the second intifada, but these leaders had the strength to do what was best for Israel despite US pressures and the political skills to keep the relationship strong. Netanyahu is a skilled politician but not a strong political leader.

This was the rap on him the first time he was PM, and I wanted to believe he had grown stronger, but he has not.

The cease fire won't hold because it can't, Hamas's mission is to destroy Israel. The muslim brotherhoods mission is the same, so Netanyahu acts as if he's for it. Hamas will break the cease fire, then Israel will have to go in, plus let’s not forget Israel needs our help in taking out Iran when needed, this is not a reactor in Iraq we are talking about, The situation is not the same as thirty years ago, Netanyahu is the right leader for this

You are right, Iran will retaliate against the US in a number of fronts.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Politicians to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s Right and Left spoke out against Wednesday night’s cease-fire, with only Labor, Meretz and others on the Left supporting it.

“The goals of his operation were not reached, and the next round is only a matter of time,” Kadima chairman Shaul Mofaz said. “We should not have stopped at this stage. Hamas got stronger and we did not gain deterrence.”

Mofaz referred to his experience as an IDF chief of staff and leading Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, saying it is possible to defeat terrorism.

“The army knows how to do its work, and we could have won this time. A cease-fire at this point is a mistake; this is not how a war against terror ends. Hamas has the upper hand,” he stated.

Mofaz: Hamas won upper hand, truc... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

You could just write this off as political campaigning, but a poll taken just before the ceasefire was announced showed 70% of Israelis opposed it. Mofaz has not been doing well in the polls lately, but if this ceasefire does not hold, his experience as Defense Minister during Defensive Shield just might make him the next PM.

Mofaz is running against him so everything Netanyahu does is wrong. Israeli politics are no different than American.

I understand this, but the ceasefire was so unpopular that Netanyahu's, the leader of the center right bloc, decision to sign on to it is only supported by the left wing parties and all center right and right wing parties oppose it. Mofaz is running against Netanyahu but I think his criticism also reflects his real opinions. I have been disappointed in some of Mofaz's political maneuvering lately, but if the Israeli public thinks it will have to go to war soon, Mofaz has the best credentials as a war time leaders, imo.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I like Netanyahu, he is no Olmert. Wo knows what kind of pressure was put on him from Clinton and Obama. They need parts from us for their F16s ect...

I'm sure a lot of pressure was put on him by Obama and Clinton, but huge pressure was put on Eshkol before the Six Day War and on Begin before he ordered the IAF to take out Saddam's nuclear reactor and especially on Sharon before he ordered the IDF into areas A and B during the second intifada, but these leaders had the strength to do what was best for Israel despite US pressures and the political skills to keep the relationship strong. Netanyahu is a skilled politician but not a strong political leader.

This was the rap on him the first time he was PM, and I wanted to believe he had grown stronger, but he has not.

The cease fire won't hold because it can't, Hamas's mission is to destroy Israel. The muslim brotherhoods mission is the same, so Netanyahu acts as if he's for it. Hamas will break the cease fire, then Israel will have to go in, plus let’s not forget Israel needs our help in taking out Iran when needed, this is not a reactor in Iraq we are talking about, The situation is not the same as thirty years ago, Netanyahu is the right leader for this

The US and Israel are strong allies, but their interests are not always the same. The US will deal with Iran in ways that best serve US interests regardless of what Israel's interest are whether Netanyahu went along with the ceasefire or not. In this case I believe the primary US interest was strengthening the US's relationship with Egypt now that it has an Islamist president.

I don't think the pressure put on Netanyahu was in the form of threats of withholding US aid or support because support for Israel in Congress is so strong that that sort of thing would cause a political crisis for the Obama administration. I think Netanyahu was promised more support on things like negotiations with the PA or more aid to buy the additional seven Iron Domes Israel wants. I don't claim to know, but I suspect the clincher was this: if Netanyayu ordered a ground operation now, the US would not promise to support it, but if he gave the ceasefire a chance, giving the US the opportunity to strengthen it's relationship with Egypt, then if Israel had to go into Gaza later, the US would give it political cover in the international community.

This ceasefire clearly served US interests, but did it serve or harm Israeli interests? Even if it holds for a while, it will have given Hamas more legitimacy, more prestige, make it politically stronger and will sideline the PA. What will this mean about the possibility of negotiating anything meaningful with the PA? How much will this increase Hamas' influence in the West Bank? With this ceasefire, imo, Netanyahu sent the message that violent confrontation with Israel works, and that will come back to bite them in the ass.

 

[Jroc]

I'm sure a lot of pressure was put on him by Obama and Clinton, but huge pressure was put on Eshkol before the Six Day War and on Begin before he ordered the IAF to take out Saddam's nuclear reactor and especially on Sharon before he ordered the IDF into areas A and B during the second intifada, but these leaders had the strength to do what was best for Israel despite US pressures and the political skills to keep the relationship strong. Netanyahu is a skilled politician but not a strong political leader.

This was the rap on him the first time he was PM, and I wanted to believe he had grown stronger, but he has not.

The cease fire won't hold because it can't, Hamas's mission is to destroy Israel. The muslim brotherhoods mission is the same, so Netanyahu acts as if he's for it. Hamas will break the cease fire, then Israel will have to go in, plus let’s not forget Israel needs our help in taking out Iran when needed, this is not a reactor in Iraq we are talking about, The situation is not the same as thirty years ago, Netanyahu is the right leader for this

The US and Israel are strong allies, but their interests are not always the same. The US will deal with Iran in ways that best serve US interests regardless of what Israel's interest are whether Netanyahu went along with the ceasefire or not. In this case I believe the primary US interest was strengthening the US's relationship with Egypt now that it has an Islamist president.

I don't think the pressure put on Netanyahu was in the form of threats of withholding US aid or support because support for Israel in Congress is so strong that that sort of thing would cause a political crisis for the Obama administration. I think Netanyahu was promised more support on things like negotiations with the PA or more aid to buy the additional seven Iron Domes Israel wants. I don't claim to know, but I suspect the clincher was this: if Netanyayu ordered a ground operation now, the US would not promise to support it, but if he gave the ceasefire a chance, giving the US the opportunity to strengthen it's relationship with Egypt, then if Israel had to go into Gaza later, the US would give it political cover in the international community.

This ceasefire clearly served US interests, but did it serve or harm Israeli interests? Even if it holds for a while, it will have given Hamas more legitimacy, more prestige, make it politically stronger and will sideline the PA. What will this mean about the possibility of negotiating anything meaningful with the PA? How much will this increase Hamas' influence in the West Bank? With this ceasefire, imo, Netanyahu sent the message that violent confrontation with Israel works, and that will come back to bite them in the ass.

This is what we have we have Obama, do you think any threats made by this administration would be made public? Congress won't know what was said, none of us knows, Netanyahu will do what he feels in right with what he has to work with and thats Obama. The cease fire won't hold

 

[Sunni Man]

Another victory for the Palestinian people!!

 

[georgephillip]

The ceasefire won't hold because Jews will continue their policies of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer" until they control all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The cease fire won't hold because it can't, Hamas's mission is to destroy Israel. The muslim brotherhoods mission is the same, so Netanyahu acts as if he's for it. Hamas will break the cease fire, then Israel will have to go in, plus let’s not forget Israel needs our help in taking out Iran when needed, this is not a reactor in Iraq we are talking about, The situation is not the same as thirty years ago, Netanyahu is the right leader for this

The US and Israel are strong allies, but their interests are not always the same. The US will deal with Iran in ways that best serve US interests regardless of what Israel's interest are whether Netanyahu went along with the ceasefire or not. In this case I believe the primary US interest was strengthening the US's relationship with Egypt now that it has an Islamist president.

I don't think the pressure put on Netanyahu was in the form of threats of withholding US aid or support because support for Israel in Congress is so strong that that sort of thing would cause a political crisis for the Obama administration. I think Netanyahu was promised more support on things like negotiations with the PA or more aid to buy the additional seven Iron Domes Israel wants. I don't claim to know, but I suspect the clincher was this: if Netanyayu ordered a ground operation now, the US would not promise to support it, but if he gave the ceasefire a chance, giving the US the opportunity to strengthen it's relationship with Egypt, then if Israel had to go into Gaza later, the US would give it political cover in the international community.

This ceasefire clearly served US interests, but did it serve or harm Israeli interests? Even if it holds for a while, it will have given Hamas more legitimacy, more prestige, make it politically stronger and will sideline the PA. What will this mean about the possibility of negotiating anything meaningful with the PA? How much will this increase Hamas' influence in the West Bank? With this ceasefire, imo, Netanyahu sent the message that violent confrontation with Israel works, and that will come back to bite them in the ass.

This is what we have we have Obama, do you think any threats made by this administration would be made public? Congress won't know what was said, none of us knows, Netanyahu will do what he feels in right with what he has to work with and thats Obama. The cease fire won't hold

I continue to think Netanyahu was wooed, not threatened, into agreeing to the ceasefire, and I believe it will hurt him in the election. Do you remember how Netanyahu lectured Obama in the WH when Obama called for negotiations with the PA based on the 1948 ceasefire line? Clearly, Netanyahu understands the limitations of Obama's ability to harm Israel's interests and he is not cowed by him.

Clinton arrived in Cairo with our checkbook open, purchased a few guarantees from Morsi and whispered sweet nothings into Netanyahu's ear about US support during the election and if the ceasefire fails while stuffing some cash into his pocket for a few more Iron Domes and Netanyahu had another Wye moment. It's the same old Netanyahu, full of bluster in debate about opposing Oslo or destroying Hamas but too subtle and too shrewd at times when bold action is called for.

Arik, wake up! Israel needs you. Bibi's soiled his pants again.

 

[Jroc]

The US and Israel are strong allies, but their interests are not always the same. The US will deal with Iran in ways that best serve US interests regardless of what Israel's interest are whether Netanyahu went along with the ceasefire or not. In this case I believe the primary US interest was strengthening the US's relationship with Egypt now that it has an Islamist president.

I don't think the pressure put on Netanyahu was in the form of threats of withholding US aid or support because support for Israel in Congress is so strong that that sort of thing would cause a political crisis for the Obama administration. I think Netanyahu was promised more support on things like negotiations with the PA or more aid to buy the additional seven Iron Domes Israel wants. I don't claim to know, but I suspect the clincher was this: if Netanyayu ordered a ground operation now, the US would not promise to support it, but if he gave the ceasefire a chance, giving the US the opportunity to strengthen it's relationship with Egypt, then if Israel had to go into Gaza later, the US would give it political cover in the international community.

This ceasefire clearly served US interests, but did it serve or harm Israeli interests? Even if it holds for a while, it will have given Hamas more legitimacy, more prestige, make it politically stronger and will sideline the PA. What will this mean about the possibility of negotiating anything meaningful with the PA? How much will this increase Hamas' influence in the West Bank? With this ceasefire, imo, Netanyahu sent the message that violent confrontation with Israel works, and that will come back to bite them in the ass.

This is what we have we have Obama, do you think any threats made by this administration would be made public? Congress won't know what was said, none of us knows, Netanyahu will do what he feels in right with what he has to work with and thats Obama. The cease fire won't hold

I continue to think Netanyahu was wooed, not threatened, into agreeing to the ceasefire, and I believe it will hurt him in the election. Do you remember how Netanyahu lectured Obama in the WH when Obama called for negotiations with the PA based on the 1948 ceasefire line? Clearly, Netanyahu understands the limitations of Obama's ability to harm Israel's interests and he is not cowed by him.

Clinton arrived in Cairo with our checkbook open, purchased a few guarantees from Morsi and whispered sweet nothings into Netanyahu's ear about US support during the election and if the ceasefire fails while stuffing some cash into his pocket for a few more Iron Domes and Netanyahu had another Wye moment. It's the same old Netanyahu, full of bluster in debate about opposing Oslo or destroying Hamas but too subtle and too shrewd at times when bold action is called for.

Arik, wake up! Israel needs you. Bibi's soiled his pants again.

Sorry I don't buy it...Obama was just reelected, he doesn't have the limitations he had before, Netanyahu knows this, and this “deal” doesn’t help him politically anyway. He won't let Hamas rearm, if arms continue to flow through the Sinai, this stupid cease fire won't hold for shit. And it won’t, so you're trying to tell me that Netanyahu will sell out his people? No way we're talking about survival here.

 

[Lipush]

They should have went in to clear those missile launching sites, they still may haft to

They should have gone in to capture or kill the entire leadership of the terrorist gangs no matter how long it took and whatever the cost.

Israel is cursed lately with politicians in the PM's office instead of political leaders. First Olmert lost his nerve during Cast Lead, and now Netanyahu has done even worse. Israel needs a PM with some balls.

I like Netanyahu, he is no Olmert. Wo knows what kind of pressure was put on him from Clinton and Obama. They need parts from us for their F16s ect...

Yet it was Olmets who went forward into Cast Lead, and Netanyahu which brought us 10 steps back.

 

[Lipush]

The ceasefire won't hold because Jews will continue their policies of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer" until they control all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

What are you talking about, idiot??

The ceasefire was already being broken less than an hour after it started.

Stop lying.

 

[toomuchtime_]

This is what we have we have Obama, do you think any threats made by this administration would be made public? Congress won't know what was said, none of us knows, Netanyahu will do what he feels in right with what he has to work with and thats Obama. The cease fire won't hold

I continue to think Netanyahu was wooed, not threatened, into agreeing to the ceasefire, and I believe it will hurt him in the election. Do you remember how Netanyahu lectured Obama in the WH when Obama called for negotiations with the PA based on the 1948 ceasefire line? Clearly, Netanyahu understands the limitations of Obama's ability to harm Israel's interests and he is not cowed by him.

Clinton arrived in Cairo with our checkbook open, purchased a few guarantees from Morsi and whispered sweet nothings into Netanyahu's ear about US support during the election and if the ceasefire fails while stuffing some cash into his pocket for a few more Iron Domes and Netanyahu had another Wye moment. It's the same old Netanyahu, full of bluster in debate about opposing Oslo or destroying Hamas but too subtle and too shrewd at times when bold action is called for.

Arik, wake up! Israel needs you. Bibi's soiled his pants again.

Sorry I don't buy it...Obama was just reelected, he doesn't have the limitations he had before, Netanyahu knows this, and this “deal” doesn’t help him politically anyway. He won't let Hamas rearm, if arms continue to flow through the Sinai, this stupid cease fire won't hold for shit. And it won’t, so you're trying to tell me that Netanyahu will sell out his people? No way we're talking about survival here.

I'm not saying Netanyahu is selling out his people; I'm just questioning his judgment. It is a myth that Obama now has a free hand to deal with Israel as he likes. Both houses of Congress just passed near unanimous resolutions supporting Pillar of Defense, and if Obama tried to punish Israel in ways that would threaten its security, such as withholding spare parts as you suggested earlier, he would be opening a conflict not just with Congress but with his own political party; most of the leaders of the Democratic Party are strong supporters of Israel. The only area in which Obama has room to move on this issue is in how much diplomatic support his administration will give Israel, but even here, if he were to go too far, his State Department would be called before Congressional committees and publicly berated because of his actions. Netanyahu understands US politics as well as any US politician and he knows how strong support for Israel is in Congress and as the mid term elections draw nearer, that support will grow even stronger.

Obama may be biased against Israel, but there is no reason to think he is a fanatic on this issue. The ceasefire may not serve all of the US's interests, but it does serve the interests of Obama and Clinton, especially if she decides to run in 2016. Notice that before Clinton arrived in Cairo, both Hamas and Israel continued to present demands they knew the other side would not agree to, but as soon as Clinton showed up with the magic checkbook, everyone compromised. Incredibly, this conflict between tiny Israel and even tinier Gaza is front page news around the world, and Obama/Clinton's success in quickly bringing about a ceasefire will earn them great respect in many other regions and will be a +++ for Democrats in the mid term elections.

I also have doubts about how long this ceasefire will hold. For one thing, none of the details about weapons smuggling or freer movement of goods and persons through the crossings have been defined and agreed to. Even supposing Hamas intends to keep to the ceasefire, there are bound to be disappointments in how it is implemented, and there are factions in Gaza that act independently from Hamas, so a nagging disappointment could easily lead one of these factions to fire off some rockets and with the upcoming Israeli elections, Netanyahu would have to respond if Hamas or Egypt did not take quick, effective actions to end the attacks. Also, terror attacks against Israel have long played a key role in the politics of the Palestinian Arabs - each rocket aimed at civilian population centers in Israel was a terrorist attack - and some will see the ceasefire as giving new validity to terrorism as an effective tool in dealing with Israel; one can imagine numerous scenarios in which as few terrorist attacks, even coming from the West Bank, could lead to Israelis responses that would escalate to a ground operation in Gaza.

For the present I will try to remain hopeful the ceasefire will hold, but I remain very disappointed that Netanyahu did not pursue a more decisive solution to terrorist attacks from Gaza as Sharon did to terrorist attacks coming from the West Bank in Defensive Shield.