MN Faces Idea Of Lower Drinking Age, Again

[garyd]

Okay, Canada isn't comparable to the US in any meaningful way.

Binge drinking isn't new. It was going on when I was in college in the sixties and seventies and the drinking age was 18. The notion that reducing the drinking age will reduce binge drinking is completely absurd.

Alcohol problems are at least as bad in Europe as in the US on a percapita basis.

Alcohol kills brain cells.

Wine has some beneficial effects for your health. Beer and liquor have little or none. And the amount you need to consume to get the benefit won't even make most people feel even a slight buzz.

 

[KittenKoder]

Just because a person reaches the age of 18 and is considered an adult does not mean that their brains are 'adult'. Much change and growth takes place between the ages of 18-25 or so. In light of this, lowering the drinking age to 18 from 21 would be a huge mistake, imo.

Catalyst: Teen Brain - ABC TV Science

A couple of us already addressed this ... look up a bit.

 

[Agnapostate]

Just because a person reaches the age of 18 and is considered an adult does not mean that their brains are 'adult'. Much change and growth takes place between the ages of 18-25 or so. In light of this, lowering the drinking age to 18 from 21 would be a huge mistake, imo.

Catalyst: Teen Brain - ABC TV Science

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying the drinking age shouldn't be lowered because the brain underdevelopment would cause the alcohol to be physically harmful or are you saying the drinking age shouldn't be lowered because the brain underdevelopment would cause persons under 21 to be incapable of making rational and informed decisions about alcohol consumption? Because I've addressed both of those claims in this thread.

Okay, Canada isn't comparable to the US in any meaningful way.

No, it's comparable because the highway fatalities among the same age group fell by the same proportion despite the drinking age being 18 or 19 in Canada, depending on the region.

Binge drinking isn't new. It was going on when I was in college in the sixties and seventies and the drinking age was 18. The notion that reducing the drinking age will reduce binge drinking is completely absurd.

Binge drinking isn't new, but it's certainly been increasing as of late. And no, merely moving one arbitrary line in the sand to another probably isn't a functional solution, but a gradual introduction to moderate alcohol consumption from early age would likely be an effective solution.

Alcohol problems are at least as bad in Europe as in the US on a percapita basis.

That's simply not the case. On a per capita basis, alcohol consumption is more widespread in Europe than it is in the U.S. But binge drinking is more widespread in the U.S. than it is in Europe.

Alcohol kills brain cells.

...Brain cells grow back. This "argument" really doesn't pack the force it once did in light of that.

Wine has some beneficial effects for your health. Beer and liquor have little or none. And the amount you need to consume to get the benefit won't even make most people feel even a slight buzz.

The purpose of moderate alcohol consumption isn't to become intoxicated.

 

[michiganFats]

People drink to get a buzz. period. It's a fact of life. I see the argument made that lowering the drinking age to 18 will result in more accidents on the roads. Yep, it will. But, if you want to use public safety as your main argument, then why not push for a drinking age of 30? or 40? or higher? In other words, if you want to argue the public safety issue, and you are arguing the difference between 18 and 21, then you are being intellectually dishonest. Do what you really want to do, and push for 30+.

 

[Agnapostate]

People drink to get a buzz. period. It's a fact of life. I see the argument made that lowering the drinking age to 18 will result in more accidents on the roads. Yep, it will.

On what basis? These claims are entirely unsupported by empirical evidence.

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, Agna, they don't "grow back". We only use a small portion of our brain, what happens is that those which die are replaced by unused ones, they don't grow back. Any information stored in the brain cells that die is lost until you relearn it or experience it again (if possible). Though I don't see any additional harm to lower the drinking age (most drink already anyway because it is the nature of teens to be obnoxious) and many countries that even allow their children to drink small amounts at younger ages tend to have fewer problems with alcohol as a whole.

 

[KittenKoder]

People drink to get a buzz. period. It's a fact of life. I see the argument made that lowering the drinking age to 18 will result in more accidents on the roads. Yep, it will. But, if you want to use public safety as your main argument, then why not push for a drinking age of 30? or 40? or higher? In other words, if you want to argue the public safety issue, and you are arguing the difference between 18 and 21, then you are being intellectually dishonest. Do what you really want to do, and push for 30+.

Hell ... may as well make it so people can't drink when they have a license no matter what age ... that would work, and even I would be happy. I don't do either by the way.

 

[alan1]

Okay, Canada isn't comparable to the US in any meaningful way.

Binge drinking isn't new. It was going on when I was in college in the sixties and seventies and the drinking age was 18. The notion that reducing the drinking age will reduce binge drinking is completely absurd.

Alcohol problems are at least as bad in Europe as in the US on a percapita basis.

Alcohol kills brain cells.

Wine has some beneficial effects for your health. Beer and liquor have little or none. And the amount you need to consume to get the benefit won't even make most people feel even a slight buzz.

I've always felt that the greatest benefit of binge drinking was that morning conversation with the strange woman I woke up next to.

 

[michiganFats]

On what basis? These claims are entirely unsupported by empirical evidence.

Yes, they are, and I admit they are. But, I have some news for you. Life can't be quantified by links. I may not have a link from[insert political rag of choice here], but tell me I'm wrong. You spend enough time on this Earth, and some truths become self-evident.

 

[Agnapostate]

Just because a person reaches the age of 18 and is considered an adult does not mean that their brains are 'adult'. Much change and growth takes place between the ages of 18-25 or so. In light of this, lowering the drinking age to 18 from 21 would be a huge mistake, imo.

Catalyst: Teen Brain - ABC TV Science

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying the drinking age shouldn't be lowered because the brain underdevelopment would cause the alcohol to be physically harmful or are you saying the drinking age shouldn't be lowered because the brain underdevelopment would cause persons under 21 to be incapable of making rational and informed decisions about alcohol consumption? Because I've addressed both of those claims in this thread.

Okay, Canada isn't comparable to the US in any meaningful way.

No, it's comparable because the highway fatalities among the same age group fell by the same proportion despite the drinking age being 18 or 19 in Canada, depending on the region.



Binge drinking isn't new, but it's certainly been increasing as of late. And no, merely moving one arbitrary line in the sand to another probably isn't a functional solution, but a gradual introduction to moderate alcohol consumption from early age would likely be an effective solution.



That's simply not the case. On a per capita basis, alcohol consumption is more widespread in Europe than it is in the U.S. But binge drinking is more widespread in the U.S. than it is in Europe.

Alcohol kills brain cells.

...Brain cells grow back. This "argument" really doesn't pack the force it once did in light of that.

Wine has some beneficial effects for your health. Beer and liquor have little or none. And the amount you need to consume to get the benefit won't even make most people feel even a slight buzz.

The purpose of moderate alcohol consumption isn't to become intoxicated.

Apparently, Annie felt that this post was offensive enough to negrep. Why doesn't she come out here and detail the specific objections that she has to this post? That is...if she has the spine to do it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Some people are just too comfortable with thinking of children as their own personal slaves, so offering them more rights and thus making them more human they cannot tolerate.

 

[garyd]

And moderate for the purposes of health benefits is something on the order of about four ounces a day preferably right before bed time. On the other hand I've seldom met a teenager who gave a tinkers dam about the health impacts of moderate drinking unless he was trying to talk mommy and daddy into letting him drink.

Did You know that Noam Choamsky and Ursula K Le Guin have something in Common - they are both writers of fiction of the two Le Guin's is far more believable.

 

[Agnapostate]

And moderate for the purposes of health benefits is something on the order of about four ounces a day preferably right before bed time. On the other hand I've seldom met a teenager who gave a tinkers dam about the health impacts of moderate drinking unless he was trying to talk mommy and daddy into letting him drink.

I'll advance that that's simply another consequence of the infantilization of youth. Do you expect youth to act in a rational manner when they're not currently expected to?

Did You know that Noam Choamsky and Ursula K Le Guin have something in Common - they are both writers of fiction of the two Le Guin's is far more believable.

You can do better than that, can't you?

 

[garyd]

Oh give me a break. The chief problem of youth for the last couple of thousand years isn't rationality so much as the disbelief in notion of actions having consequences.

And Yes I can but you being a child wouldn't get it...

 

[Agnapostate]

Oh give me a break. The chief problem of youth for the last couple of thousand years isn't rationality so much as the disbelief in notion of actions having consequences.

And Yes I can but you being a child wouldn't get it...

Once again, you have failed to offer a sufficient reply in this thread. I have detailed a vast array of empirical evidence that indicates that your position is fallacious and based on inaccurate premises; on what basis do you claim this is untrue? Do we need to refresh our memory on the numerous studies indicating that youth are capable of making rational and informed decisions?

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh give me a break. The chief problem of youth for the last couple of thousand years isn't rationality so much as the disbelief in notion of actions having consequences.

And Yes I can but you being a child wouldn't get it...

Really ... then how the hell did our species survive and even thrive during those first few million years when life expectancy was about 25 - 30?

 

[del]

Oh give me a break. The chief problem of youth for the last couple of thousand years isn't rationality so much as the disbelief in notion of actions having consequences.

And Yes I can but you being a child wouldn't get it...

Really ... then how the hell did our species survive and even thrive during those first few million years when life expectancy was about 25 - 30?

the really stupid ones died; the average stupid ones couldn't get laid.
no one said evolution was pretty.

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh give me a break. The chief problem of youth for the last couple of thousand years isn't rationality so much as the disbelief in notion of actions having consequences.

And Yes I can but you being a child wouldn't get it...

Really ... then how the hell did our species survive and even thrive during those first few million years when life expectancy was about 25 - 30?

the really stupid ones died; the average stupid ones couldn't get laid.
no one said evolution was pretty.

Okay ... you won that one ... phbtbthtbtpthtbt!

 

[del]

Really ... then how the hell did our species survive and even thrive during those first few million years when life expectancy was about 25 - 30?

the really stupid ones died; the average stupid ones couldn't get laid.
no one said evolution was pretty.

Okay ... you won that one ... phbtbthtbtpthtbt!

and 35 mm isn't small!

 

[KittenKoder]

the really stupid ones died; the average stupid ones couldn't get laid.
no one said evolution was pretty.

Okay ... you won that one ... phbtbthtbtpthtbt!

and 35 mm isn't small!

That one I don't get the reference ... blond moment again I guess.

Update: Oh wait, just got it. LOL